Patriots Training Camp Tuesday August 9th

[n6249c]

Alright fun and jokes aside with the somewhat improvements on Offense...should we put an asterisk "*" on Todays practice with Barmore being out??

No. He was very effectively neutralized by our starting center. That is all.

 

[PatsFan2]

Doug didn't even take into account Tre Nixon, who has had a really good camp as well. This is a very deep position for us now. I guess we could have worse problems. lol

Really like what I'm hearing about Tre Nixon can't wait to see him with Russell Wilson Bailey Zappe. If Tre Nixon have that wiggle we all heard about he would make even Meyers expandable. Unleash the Tre Nixon Cracken!

 

[n6249c]

What's wrong with having four really good receivers? Injuries happen, and it's nice to have awesome depth at that position.

Bourne, Parker, Meyers, Nixon. There’s four good receivers.

Not to mention Montgomery, Wilkerson, even Humphrey and Hammond all have some potential.

There‘s more depth than roster space for depth at WR.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Bourne, Parker, Meyers, Nixon. There’s four good receivers.

Not to mention Montgomery, Wilkerson, even Humphrey and Hammond all have some potential.

There‘s more depth than roster space for depth at WR.

Wow I am just getting caught up. Did Thornton get injured today? Or just not on your radar?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Such a relief not to see these feeds full of news of our OLs demise.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bourne, Parker, Meyers, Nixon. There’s four good receivers.

Not to mention Montgomery, Wilkerson, even Humphrey and Hammond all have some potential.

There‘s more depth than roster space for depth at WR.

Agholor has supposedly been running fantastic routes.

So looking forward to Thornton during the season.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Marcus is short JJ is 5’10” which isn’t that short and mills is 6’.
Better to be on a receiver and short than letting them be open and be tall.

Marcus Jones 5’8”
Jonathan Jones 5’9 1/8”

 

[JayNM]

Bourne, Parker, Meyers, Nixon. There’s four good receivers.

Not to mention Montgomery, Wilkerson, even Humphrey and Hammond all have some potential.

There‘s more depth than roster space for depth at WR.

So this kinda gets tricky for me right. On the OP, for me, good meant "~somewhat above league average". Certainly, Bourne and Parker are in this category

Meyers, and I really like him, is a good 3rd to 4th WR option. Dependable and smart, for me he is above average even, but that "somewhat" i dont think it's there. Maybe this year

Nixon has got to be mistype for Agholor right? Which I say maybe. In our system? I'll get you back in october (When I will also finally talk about Thornton, and not a second sooner)

 

[Vindicate]

I'm hoping these offensive struggles are also due to our defense being lights out and we just don't know it yet.


I'm also hoping I win a billion dollars. Neither for which I'm holding my breath. But I do believe this defense could actually be pretty damn good.

 

[n6249c]

Wow I am just getting caught up. Did Thornton get injured today? Or just not on your radar?

Oops! My bad! I had Bourne and Parker quicker than I could type, realized I was about to overlook Meyers and then jumped to add Nixon because of his early flash. Completely overlooked the rookie, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns out to be right up there in the top three.

So this kinda gets tricky for me right. On the OP, for me, good meant "~somewhat above league average". Certainly, Bourne and Parker are in this category

Meyers, and I really like him, is a good 3rd to 4th WR option. Dependable and smart, for me he is above average even, but that "somewhat" i dont think it's there. Maybe this year

Nixon has got to be mistype for Agholor right? Which I say maybe. In our system? I'll get you back in october (When I will also finally talk about Thornton, and not a second sooner)

I’d drop Thornton in as one I expect to be more than just somewhat above league average. That move where he undressed Mitchell made me a believer that he’s more than just fast.

if Nixon plays up to the level he’s flashed at times he’ll also be at least somewhat above league average.

I was intentionally omitting Agholor as I’m hoping he’s gone to the Bears in the swap for Smith we’re discussing. I was showing that it looks like we’ve got the depth to satisfy your desire for four good receivers and still make that trade. With Meyers et al still providing depth.

I guess what it boils down to right now for me is that I’m not as worried about WR as I am about ILB. Not really worried about the LBs really but the chance for a really significant upgrade there at the cost of some WR depth to me is a no brainer. I’m looking for a big bounce back year for Nelson but it it comes in Chicago so we can get a stud to key the D for the next few years that’s ok.

 

[Wozzy]

Unless you get great value and/or massive cap relief : don’t do it. Ride it out and maybe even keep an extra WR if you believe in him. I just think we need production at that position. Let’s not go thinking ‘we have the late 80s SF squad here’.

Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Nixon, Wilkerson...

Now cut two, they won't roster 7 WR's. And before you begin this exercise remember this:

Agholor is making 10 million dollars and has no contract next year. They can open a lot of cap space by trading him. He also has a solid reputation (except here) and despite his contract, he is a reasonable one year rental for a contender who has a WR get injured in preseason.

Meyer's wants a contract for next year and probably thinks he deserves close to the four years 72 million that other slot WR Christian Kirk got... and good god that's a massive overpay. Even if he thinks he doesn't deserve that much, it has to be close, the market has been set.

Also consider this... Thornton, Nixon and Wilkerson are on rookie deals... they cost next to nothing and are locked up for years. Even if they become All Pros, they still will be cheap until their rookie deals run out.

They could carry 6 WR's but probably won't, not unless at least two of them become serious contributors on special teams. A team that can only roster 53 players and only activate 48 players on game day can't have seven guys standing around doing nothing but offense, somebody has to play special teams.

Even if they have more, the most WR's they'll have on the field at a given time is 4 or 5 max... more isn't necessarily better.

 

[farn]

Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Thornton, Nixon, Wilkerson...

Now cut two, they won't roster 7 WR's. And before you begin this exercise remember this:

Agholor is making 10 million dollars and has no contract next year. They can open a lot of cap space by trading him. He also has a solid reputation (except here) and despite his contract he is a reasonable one year rental for a contender who injures a WR in preseason.

Meyer's wants a contract for next year and probably thinks he deserves close to the four years 72 million that other slot WR Christian Kirk got... and good god that's a massive overpay. Even if he thinks he doesn't deserve that much, it has to be close, the market has been set.

Also consider this... Thornton, Nixon and Wilkerson are on rookie deals... they cost next to nothing and are locked up for years. Even if they become All Pros, they still will be cheap until their rookie deals run out.

They could carry 6 WR's but probably won't, not unless at least two of them become serious contributors on special teams. A team that can only roster 53 players and only activate 48 players on game day can't have seven guys standing around doing nothing but offense, somebody has to play special teams.

Even if they have more, the most WR's they'll have on the field at a given time is 4 or 5 max... more isn't better.

If Mac gets this offense rolling (I know, TC news hasn’t been kind to the O) it’s worthwhile to have the best possible weapons.

Regarding the specific players you’ve mentioned : if NA is playing well, like 2020 level, I’d be ok w the 10M$ salary remaining. I’m also VERY happy paying Meyers 3M$ and watching him leave for massive amounts of salary if he can find it. I would definitely not pay him anywhere near the amount you suggest (I understand the bar is set). And I like Meyers a lot. But not at that price.

Anyways, I’m ok letting Nixon and Wilkerson walk and roll the one year dice w the other two.

 

[Wozzy]

So this kinda gets tricky for me right. On the OP, for me, good meant "~somewhat above league average". Certainly, Bourne and Parker are in this category

Meyers, and I really like him, is a good 3rd to 4th WR option. Dependable and smart, for me he is above average even, but that "somewhat" i dont think it's there. Maybe this year

Nixon has got to be mistype for Agholor right? Which I say maybe. In our system? I'll get you back in october (When I will also finally talk about Thornton, and not a second sooner)

I'll just say this, we have no clue what Thornton, Nixon, Wilkerson will become. Negative types won't want to hear this, but one or all of them could become super weapons.

Also when people say things like "somewhat above league average" they don't understand what they're saying. There's close to 200 WR's in the NFL at any given time during the regular season... a large percentage of them are horrible, far worse than Parker, Agholor, Bourne or Meyers.

We have a really really good WR room if what Thornton, Nixon and Wilkerson are doing in preseason isn't a mirage and they stay healthy.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Also consider this... Thornton, Nixon and Wilkerson are on rookie deals... they cost next to nothing and are locked up for years. Even if they become All Pros, they still will be cheap until their rookie deals run out.

FYI, I think Nixon and Wilkerson are on 1 yr deals right now:

New England Patriots Contracts

A complete list of New England Patriots (NE) contracts including terms, details and breakdowns.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Wozzy]

If Mac gets this offense rolling (I know, TC news hasn’t been kind to the O) it’s worthwhile to have the best possible weapons.

Regarding the specific players you’ve mentioned : if NA is playing well, like 2020 level, I’d be ok w the 10M$ salary remaining. I’m also VERY happy paying Meyers 3M$ and watching him leave for massive amounts of salary if he can find it. I would definitely not pay him anywhere near the amount you suggest (I understand the bar is set). And I like Meyers a lot. But not at that price.

Anyways, I’m ok letting Nixon and Wilkerson walk and roll the one year dice w the other two.

Nixon has 4.4 speed, if Meyers won't agree to a contract for a 3rd or 4th best WR, then there's no point in losing Nixon. If you have no intention on bringing Agholor back next season because Thornton and Nixon can give you the same production for under 2 million per season... there's no point in losing anyone.

Team building isn't just looking at 2022, it's looking years down the road. I like Meyers, I think he gets great separation and has a unique ability to get open... that being said he's slow. The kids have a lot more potential than he does, especially if they can't get close on a contract. You don't just say "I'm willing to lose so and so," not if you can turn an UDFA Meyers into a draft pick.

 

[Wozzy]

FYI, I think Nixon and Wilkerson are on 1 yr deals right now:

I think you're right, but if I had to pay a bigger deal to somebody, I'd rather pay the guys with speed and potential.

Meyers is Mohamed Sanu, he'll never have a 1000 yard receiving season, he'll never come close to double digit TD's... he's slow.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

FYI, I think Nixon and Wilkerson are on 1 yr deals right now:

New England Patriots Contracts

A complete list of New England Patriots (NE) contracts including terms, details and breakdowns.

www.spotrac.com

Nixon was a 7th round pick last year so he is in the 2nd year of his 4 year rookie contract. Standard.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I think you're right, but if I had to pay a bigger deal to somebody, I'd rather pay the guys with speed and potential.

Meyers is Mohamed Sanu, he'll never have a 1000 yard receiving season, he'll never come close to double digit TD's... he's slow.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say that Meyers has one of the fastest 10yd splits on the team (faster than Nixon) for it to register. It's why he can get open underneath. 6.87 3 cone is slightly slower than Nixon's 6.81.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Nixon was a 7th round pick last year so he is in the 2nd year of his 4 year rookie contract. Standard.

It might be because he got waived last year.

 

[farn]

Nixon has 4.4 speed, if Meyers won't agree to a contract for a 3rd or 4th best WR, then there's no point in losing Nixon. If you have no intention on bringing Agholor back next season because Thornton and Nixon can give you the same production for under 2 million per season... there's no point in losing anyone.

Team building isn't just looking at 2022, it's looking years down the road. I like Meyers, I think he gets great separation and has a unique ability to get open... that being said he's slow. The kids have a lot more potential than he does, especially if they can't get close on a contract. You don't just say "I'm willing to lose so and so," not if you can turn an UDFA Meyers into a draft pick.

You always say « I’m willing to lose » such n such. Turnover is always happening in the League. The « quick newbz » you mention - they aren’t necessarily any good. Why would we believe Nixon or any of the youngsters will amount to anything ? If they can’t play better than NA, then there is no reason to keep them at all cost.

Meyers won’t bring back as much as he’ll contribute. In other words, I think playing him in 2022 is worth more than what he’d fetch, as - while I like him as a player - I don’t think he’d get you much in a trade.