Is our defense this good?

[All3Phases]

You didn't understand a thing... stop trying.

I'm trying to save the board from unnecessary spamming and back and forth.

I made my opinion known, you disagree... drop it.

I understood it, it just backfired on you

 

[Wozzy]

I understood it, it just backfired on you

No genius, Revis became less and less effective as the season went on in 2014.

That's why the Pats refused to sign him and the Jests were dumb enough to... then he fell off a cliff.

All that proved was you can't see beyond the end of your nose.

 

[All3Phases]

No genius, Revis became less and less effective as the season went on.

That's why the Pats refused to sign him and the Jests were dumb enough to... and he fell off a cliff.

Revis first team all pro fell off a cliff. They signed him to a deal in which they wouldnt have picked up the 2nd year if he was God. Do you believe what youre saying?

Care to explain how Gilmore was any good in 2018? 22nd in PYA and he only had 2 ints. Are you realizing your logic is not so good?

 

[Wozzy]

Revis first team all pro fell off a cliff. They signed him to a deal in which they wouldnt have picked up the 2nd year if he was God. Do you believe what youre saying?

Care to explain how Gilmore was any good in 2018? 22nd in PYA and he only had 2 ints. Are you realizing your logic is not so good?

The largest passing yard total on the entire season in 2014 came in the playoffs to the Ravens... to Joe Flacco.

When my entire point is that a team can win a ring with just "good" at cornerback all you've done is bolster my argument.

You also failed to mention how the 2018 Patriots ranked 3rd in total interceptions on the season... strange how you omitted that?

 

[archstanton543]

Ah we've reached the part of the thread where Wozzy and All3Phaees start attacking other.

Time to shut it down.

 

[All3Phases]

The largest passing yard total on the entire season in 2014 came in the playoffs to the Ravens... to Joe Flacco.

When my entire point is that a team can win a ring with just "good" at cornerback all you've done is bolster my argument.

You also failed to mention how the 2018 Patriots ranked 3rd in total interceptions on the season... strange how you omitted that?

I said, every super bowl winning team, had a great corner back on it. 2004 can be debated though. You turned it into saying Malcolm wasnt great in 2016 and started using odd logic to try and back your argument. Gilmore only had 2 ints in 2018, how did he help?

I agree teams win championships, but over 80% of their SBs consisted of a great corner. To me thatd be an important piece

 

[Wozzy]

I said, every super bowl winning team, had a great corner back on it. 2004 can be debated though. You turned it into saying Malcolm wasnt great in 2016 and started using odd logic to try and back your argument. Gilmore only had 2 ints in 2018, how did he help?

You said you agreed Gilmore was way better than Butler (true) but then spent the next hour trying to tell us how Butler was just as good.

I described my position thoroughly, you disagreed, when I suggested for the sake of the board's sanity that we agree to disagree, you said I didn't have to respond.

Well I stopped responding... and you chased me down anyway. Now for the sake of the board's sanity I'll ask you to go take a flying fck.

I made my position known, Butler was only ever "good," possibly "very good" for two seasons at most. Gilmore is "excellent," far superior to Butler in every way... and always was. That's why BB paid him and let Butler walk.

If the team can win rings with Butler and Logan Ryan, neither of whom was excellent or a superior athlete, then if the 2022 Patriot defensive front is excellent they can win a ring with Mills/Mitchell as well... assuming the other two phases match that excellence.

Butler was an UDFA, he was a great story... he was never a superior athlete... it's a joke to compare him and Gilmore in the same breath.

 

[All3Phases]

You said you agreed Gilmore was way better than Butler (true) but then spent the next hour trying to tell us how Butler was just as good.

I described my position thoroughly, you disagreed, when I suggested for the sake of the board's sanity that we agree to disagree, you said I didn't have to respond.

Well I stopped responding... and you chased me down anyway. Now for the sake of the board's sanity I'll ask you to go take a flying fck.

I made my position known, Butler was only ever "good," possibly "very good" for two seasons at most. Gilmore is "excellent," far superior to Butler in every way... and always was. That's why BB paid him and let Butler walk.

If the team can win rings with Butler and Logan Ryan, neither of whom was excellent or a superior athlete, then if the 2022 Patriot defensive front is excellent they can win a ring with Mills/Mitchell as well... assuming the other two phases match that excellence.

Butler was an UDFA, he was a great story... he was never a superior athlete... it's a joke to compare him and Gilmore in the same breath.

I agreed Gilmore was better than Butler, I never said he was just as good and never tried to prove it. I said in 2016, Malcom butler played at an all pro caliber level, that is fact. This stemmed from you saying Mitchell and Mills can be Butler, where I said sure, if one of them plays at an all pro caliber level. Your "thorough" position was simply saying Butler was Pretty good. When the facts simply disagree with you

Your stats trying to prove Butler was only pretty good in 2016 proved that they were irrelevant, because those stats also proved Revis and Gilmore also being only pretty good as well...And we both know that is false.

I enjoy having disagreements and discussion, but no need to lie

 

[Wozzy]

I agreed Gilmore was better than Butler, I never said he was just as good and never tried to prove it. I said in 2016, Malcom butler played at an all pro caliber level, that is fact. This stemmed from you saying Mitchell and Mills can be Butler, where I said sure, if one of them plays at an all pro caliber level. Your "thorough" position was simply saying Butler was Pretty good. When the facts simply disagree with you

Your stats trying to prove Butler was only pretty good in 2016 proved that they were irrelevant, because those stats also proved Revis and Gilmore also being only pretty good as well...And we both know that is false.

I enjoy having disagreements and discussion, but no need to lie

You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.

I made my position clear, stop chasing me around here like a crazy ex girlfriend.

 

[All3Phases]

You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.

I made my position clear, stop chasing me around here like a crazy ex girlfriend.

I am truly sorry that you consider me proving your facts incorrect as stalking. But I like to point out hypocrisy when I see it

 

[Wozzy]

I am truly sorry that you consider me proving your facts incorrect as stalking. But I like to point out hypocrisy when I see it

Covering your ears to opposing viewpoints, talking out both sides of your mouth and using circular logic doesn't prove anything.

 

[All3Phases]

Covering your ears to opposing viewpoints, talking out both sides of your mouth and using circular logic doesn't prove anything.

Not sure where you picked up any of this, I am totally open to other view points, if theyre backed up logically. What you provided was just your opinion, with no basis or evidence to back it up. Your opinion is fine, doesnt mean in an argument I wont poke holes in it. Not sure where I talked out of both sides of my mouth though. I do however find it funny you can try to lie your way around this conversation

 

[Kontradiction]

I understood it, it just backfired on you

You’re quickly becoming one of my favorites. A must-read at all times.

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure where you picked up any of this, I am totally open to other view points, if theyre backed up logically. What you provided was just your opinion, with no basis or evidence to back it up. Your opinion is fine, doesnt mean in an argument I wont poke holes in it. Not sure where I talked out of both sides of my mouth though. I do however find it funny you can try to lie your way around this conversation

Provide a single lie I gave... in the meantime... evidence.

Let’s look at what “good” is:

Jalen Mills (Round 7)
6'0" 191
4.47 Forty
16 Reps
37.0 Vert
123" Broad
4.00 Shuttle
6.86 Cone

Terrance Mitchell (Round 7)
5’11” 192
4.52 Forty
8 Reps
34.0 Vert
121" Broad
4.00 Shuttle
6.57 Cone

Malcolm Butler (UDFA)
5’10” 187
4.62 Forty
13 Bench
33.5 Vert
118 Broad
4.27 Shuttle
7.20 Cone

Logan Ryan (Round 3)
5’11” 191
4.56 Forty
14 Bench
32.5 Vert
116 Broad
4.06 Shuttle
6.69 Cone

Now let’s look at what “excellent” is:

Stephon Gilmore (Round 1)
6'0" 190
4.40 Forty
15 Reps
36.0 Vert
123" Broad
3.94 Shuttle
6.61 Cone

Jaycee Horn (Round 1)
6’1” 205
4.40 Forty
19 Reps
41.5 Vert
133" Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Denzel Ward (Round 1)
5’11” 183
4.32 Forty
16 Bench
39.0 Vert
136 Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Marshon Lattimore (Round 1)
6’0” 193
4.36 Forty
00 Bench
38.5 Vert
132 Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Tre'Davious White (Round 1)
5'11” 192
4.47 Forty
16 Bench
32.0 Vert
117 Broad
4.32 Shuttle
6.90 Cone

Evidence... which undoubtedly you'll say doesn't matter... because Butler made a single Pro Bowl on the best team in the league, meanwhile Mills and Mitchell didn't on some of the worst teams and defenses in the NFL... and Gilmore made one on the Bills, one of the worst teams and defenses in the league... then came to New England won DPOY and was a Pro Bowler and All Pro annually.

The "excellent" players on this list blow the "good" players out of the water athletically, they're not on the same level at all. And Butler is the least impressive athlete on this entire list... including the "good" list. It's a joke you don't understand this.

You don't want evidence... you want someone to agree with you.

 

[All3Phases]

Provide a single lie I gave... in the meantime... evidence.

Heres your lie "but then spent the next hour trying to tell us how Butler was just as good". Provide where I said that or tried to tell you that once.

Let’s look at what “good” is:

Jalen Mills (Round 7)
6'0" 191
4.47 Forty
16 Reps
37.0 Vert
123" Broad
4.00 Shuttle
6.86 Cone

Terrance Mitchell (Round 7)
5’11” 192
4.52 Forty
8 Reps
34.0 Vert
121" Broad
4.00 Shuttle
6.57 Cone

Malcolm Butler (UDFA)
5’10” 187
4.62 Forty
13 Bench
33.5 Vert
118 Broad
4.27 Shuttle
7.20 Cone

Logan Ryan (Round 3)
5’11” 191
4.56 Forty
14 Bench
32.5 Vert
116 Broad
4.06 Shuttle
6.69 Cone

Now let’s look at what “excellent” is:

Stephon Gilmore (Round 1)
6'0" 190
4.40 Forty
15 Reps
36.0 Vert
123" Broad
3.94 Shuttle
6.61 Cone

Jaycee Horn (Round 1)
6’1” 205
4.40 Forty
19 Reps
41.5 Vert
133" Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Denzel Ward (Round 1)
5’11” 183
4.32 Forty
16 Bench
39.0 Vert
136 Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Marshon Lattimore (Round 1)
6’0” 193
4.36 Forty
00 Bench
38.5 Vert
132 Broad
0.00 Shuttle
0.00 Cone

Tre'Davious White (Round 1)
5'11” 192
4.47 Forty
16 Bench
32.0 Vert
117 Broad
4.32 Shuttle
6.90 Cone

None of these are production, maybe being good at the combine is the same thing? Unfortunately with this Logic you think Jerry Rice was basically just a pretty good player? I do enjoy how you have moved away from your PYA stat as that flew back in your face though. It was funny when you doubled down and said Revis basically sucked in 2014, all time classic

Evidence... which undoubtedly you'll say doesn't matter... because Butler made a single Pro Bowl on the best team in the league, meanwhile Mills and Mitchell didn't on some of the worst teams and defenses in the NFL... and Gilmore made one on the Bills, one of the worst teams and defenses in the league... then came to New England won DPOY and was a Pro Bowler and All Pro annually.

You keep saying pro bowl, you know thats different than an all pro year right? Mills was on a super bowl winning team and started 15 games for them. Maybe he just wasnt popular? I know he was allowed to win last year too, again must not be popular

The "excellent" players on this list blow the "good" players out of the water athletically, they're not on the same level at all. And Butler is the least impressive athlete on this entire list... including the "good" list. It's a joke you don't understand this.

You don't want evidence... you want someone to agree with you.

Again, none of this is production. Prove to me Malcolm butler didnt have a great year in 2016. SHowing me his 40 time is not it. Theres a reason you wanted no analytics in this discussion.

 

[The Brandon Five]

They should’ve won 10… No joke.

41 - check
42 - check
45 - possible, but packers were a machine in that postseason
46 - meh
52 - check

 

[Vindicate]

I agreed Gilmore was better than Butler, I never said he was just as good and never tried to prove it. I said in 2016, Malcom butler played at an all pro caliber level, that is fact. This stemmed from you saying Mitchell and Mills can be Butler, where I said sure, if one of them plays at an all pro caliber level. Your "thorough" position was simply saying Butler was Pretty good. When the facts simply disagree with you

Your stats trying to prove Butler was only pretty good in 2016 proved that they were irrelevant, because those stats also proved Revis and Gilmore also being only pretty good as well...And we both know that is false.

I enjoy having disagreements and discussion, but no need to lie

I'm having the hardest time understanding what exactly ya'll are disagreeing on lmao. That Malcolm Butler did or didn't play well in 2016?

 

[All3Phases]

I'm having the hardest time understanding what exactly ya'll are disagreeing on lmao. That Malcolm Butler did or didn't play well in 2016?

He played great, but his 40 time says he didnt!

 

[Wozzy]

Heres your lie "but then spent the next hour trying to tell us how Butler was just as good". Provide where I said that or tried to tell you that once.

That's where you've been talking out both sides of your mouth... anyone who wants to see that can read the contents of the last five pages of this thread and look at the time stamps at the top.

None of these are production, maybe being good at the combine is the same thing? I do enjoy how you have moved away from your PYA stat as that flew back in your face though

Production meaning what, team production, individual production?

I offered up interceptions and tackles you said it didn't matter. I offered up team passing stats and you said it didn't matter. I said Gilmore was better than Butler, you agreed, then you spent all day arguing how Butler was great because he made one Pro Bowl... entirely ignoring the evidence I provided how Butler was overrated and fell apart on a lesser team.

You keep saying pro bowl, you know thats different than an all pro year right? Mills was on a super bowl winning team and started 15 games for them. Maybe he just wasnt popular? I know he was allowed to win last year too, again must not be popular

Yeah, it's funny how Mills or Butler for that matter play well and are a better player on better teams and the opposite also holds true... or how Gilmore had one Pro Bowl in his entire Bill's tenure but was an annual fixture at both the Pro Bowl and All Pro teams as a Patriot... oh yeah, and won Defensive Player Of The Year. It's almost... gasp... as if team play effects individual results. Sounds familiar?

Again, none of this is production. Prove to me Malcolm butler didnt have a great year in 2016. SHowing me his 40 time is not it

He had a good year in 2015 and 2016, so did Logan Ryan, even if Butler got more of the credit... and oh yeah, they ran a system that called for each player to man a side. Butler never left his side to go man cover the best WR on the other team... like say Gilmore did.

Showing you measurables is showing how Mills/Mitchell are comparable athletes to Butler and Ryan... my entire point this time spent arguing with you. Go back and read what I wrote.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm having the hardest time understanding what exactly ya'll are disagreeing on lmao. That Malcolm Butler did or didn't play well in 2016?

That Malcom Butler and Logan Ryan were "good" not "great" corners... and that Mills and Mitchell are similar athletes.

And if the Patriots are as good in three phases as that 2016 team and the defensive front is as good, then Mills and Mitchell will be fine.

Mills already has a Super Bowl ring... he has nothing to prove. But All3Phases thinks we're doomed because of our two outside CB's. lol