What are you expecting from Mac Jones this season?

[1960Pats]

I'll reiterate I want and expect more game winning drives/comeback wins from Mac this season. That's truly what separates the elite QBs from the rest.

This got me looking at the career stats for 4QCs and GWDs for the top 15 players for regular season, playoffs and the total. What I noticed was that some of them have had a few of each in the playoffs but most only have a couple. It was also interesting to see that Eli performed better in the playoffs than his brother. This is the top 15 listed by total GWDs.

Player	Years	4QC	GWD	4QC	GWD	4QC	GWD
Brady	20	42	53	9	14	51	67
Roethlisberger	18	41	53	3	4	44	57
P Manning	18	43	54	2	2	45	56
Brees	20	36	53	2	3	38	56
Marino	16	33	47	3	4	36	51
Elway	16	31	40	4	6	35	46
Stafford	13	34	42	2	3	36	45
Favre	20	28	43	2	2	30	45
Ryan	14	33	42	1	1	34	43
E Manning	16	27	37	4	5	31	42
Unitas	18	34	38	2	2	36	40
Rivers	17	29	35	1	1	30	36
Tarkenton	18	29	33	1	1	30	34
Montana	16	26	28	5	5	31	33
Testaverdi	18	29	33	0	0	29	33

By the looks of this I think Matt Stafford will take over the lead eventually. He has a few more years left.

 

[Pats2000]

Their arms were fine. There's a difference between not having a Josh Allen arm and not having a sufficiently strong arm. Bot Brees and Manning had arms that were more than strong enough until age/injury changed that. The Mac Jones arm of 2021 was not. You know this, so why are you trying to make such a terrible comparison?

I don't remember Mac throwing balls that looked like someone hit his arm. Manning was throwing ducks all over the place. The level of wrong you are us astonishing

 

[venecol]

This got me looking at the career stats for 4QCs and GWDs for the top 15 players for regular season, playoffs and the total.

Player	Years	4QC	GWD	4QC	GWD	4QC	GWD
Brady	20	42	53	9	14	51	67
Roethlisberger	18	41	53	3	4	44	57
P Manning	18	43	54	2	2	45	56
Brees	20	36	53	2	3	38	56
Marino	16	33	47	3	4	36	51
Elway	16	31	40	4	6	35	46
Stafford	13	34	42	2	3	36	45
Favre	20	28	43	2	2	30	45
Ryan	14	33	42	1	1	34	43
E Manning	16	27	37	4	5	31	42
Unitas	18	34	38	2	2	36	40
Rivers	17	29	35	1	1	30	36
Tarkenton	18	29	33	1	1	30	34
Montana	16	26	28	5	5	31	33
Testaverdi	18	29	33	0	0	29	33

Montana at the bottom of the list (tied w/ Tarkenton). According to Timmy, he's supposed to be the most clutch player in history. Lol

 

[Rob0729]

I'll reiterate I want and expect more game winning drives/comeback wins from Mac this season. That's truly what separates the elite QBs from the rest.

I think Mac was robbed of a couple of those last year because he did do it, but then the defense or special teams gave up a score or let him down at the end. Look at the Colts' game. Jones help to lead the Pats back from a 17-0 half time deficit to get the Pats the lead of 20-17 with two minutes left and the defense let the Colts score a TD in two plays eating up over a minute of the time. Against Tampa, he did lead the Pats on a drive to potentially win the game and Folk missed a 38 yard field goal. Against Dallas, he did get the Pats to a 29-26 lead with only 20 seconds and the defense gave up a field goal (granted Jones didn't step up in overtime). All three of those games could have had very different narratives with Jones being credited with last minute scoring drives if not for factors outside of Jones' powers.

 

[Guts]

I think Mac was robbed of a couple of those last year because he did do it, but then the defense or special teams gave up a score or let him down at the end. Look at the Colts' game. Jones help to lead the Pats back from a 17-0 half time deficit to get the Pats the lead of 20-17 with two minutes left and the defense let the Colts score a TD in two plays eating up over a minute of the time. Against Tampa, he did lead the Pats on a drive to potentially win the game and Folk missed a 38 yard field goal. Against Dallas, he did get the Pats to a 29-26 lead with only 20 seconds and the defense gave up a field goal (granted Jones didn't step up in overtime). All three of those games could have had very different narratives with Jones being credited with last minute scoring drives if not for factors outside of Jones' powers.

The what if is fun, but what matters at the end is the W or the L. So we have yet to see impressive game winning drives or comebacks. I'm fairly certain he's more than capable of doing too so let's hope

 

[Sicilian]

I think Mac was robbed of a couple of those last year because he did do it, but then the defense or special teams gave up a score or let him down at the end. Look at the Colts' game. Jones help to lead the Pats back from a 17-0 half time deficit to get the Pats the lead of 20-17 with two minutes left and the defense let the Colts score a TD in two plays eating up over a minute of the time. Against Tampa, he did lead the Pats on a drive to potentially win the game and Folk missed a 38 yard field goal. Against Dallas, he did get the Pats to a 29-26 lead with only 20 seconds and the defense gave up a field goal (granted Jones didn't step up in overtime). All three of those games could have had very different narratives with Jones being credited with last minute scoring drives if not for factors outside of Jones' powers.

I agree with your overall point, but I'm pretty sure Folk's FG was 50+ (maybe 53?). Still not a bad showing to get them in that position, and it's not like it's his fault that they chose the FG attempt over going for it, but 53 isn't a case of "QB did all he could and the kicker blew a gimme".

EDIT: Talking about Folk's FG attempt in the Tampa game, in case there was any confusion there.

EDIT2: Even longer than I thought:

 

[venecol]

The what if is fun, but what matters at the end is the W or the L. So we have yet to see impressive game winning drives or comebacks. I'm fairly certain he's more than capable of doing too so let's hope

We're in the era of moral victories.

 

[sb1]

Against Tampa, he did lead the Pats on a drive to potentially win the game and Folk missed a 38 yard field goal.

It was 56 yards but that one was on the coaching. They didn't trust their rookie QB who was playing well and vs an injured secondary and went for the low percentage FG that even if made would have given the ball back to the GOAT. I believe Mac would have made the 4th and 3 if they went for it. As scared a coaching move as I've seen in a while.

And if he didn't make it so be it. If that somehow "ruined" Mac's confidence like I heard it would have then he should have never been drafted here.

 

[crawhammer]

With a modest increase of Y/G Jones should be able to reach 4000 passing yards. He should increase his TD total as well... I'll go 28 TDs and 15 INTs. Patriots had the second most rushing TDs in the NFL last season and that will need to continue for the offense to be successful. Their passing game will be decent but not close to prolific... the requisite talent isn't there.

 

[Kasmir]

Against Dallas, he did get the Pats to a 29-26 lead with only 20 seconds and the defense gave up a field goal (granted Jones didn't step up in overtime).

Agholor dropped a likely big gainer on the first play of overtime. And he was face masked on the drive-ending 3rd and 3 back shoulder but it wasn't called.

 

[PP2]

I agree with your overall point, but I'm pretty sure Folk's FG was 50+ (maybe 53?). Still not a bad showing to get them in that position, and it's not like it's his fault that they chose the FG attempt over going for it, but 53 isn't a case of "QB did all he could and the kicker blew a gimme".

EDIT: Talking about Folk's FG attempt in the Tampa game, in case there was any confusion there.

EDIT2: Even longer than I thought:

View attachment 43544

It was also in the rain.

 

[Sicilian]

It was also in the rain.

Which probably factored into Belichick's decision in an odd way as well. Yes, it made the kick from Folk harder, but if you have confidence he can make it (which to be fair, he VERY nearly did), then Tom has to either score a touchdown in less than a minute, or the TAMPA kicker has to make a tough kick in the rain as well. Basically, Bill gambled that his kicker was better in the rain than Tampa's. Didn't work out, c'est la vie.

 

[Chevy]

Montana at the bottom of the list (tied w/ Tarkenton). According to Timmy, he's supposed to be the most clutch player in history. Lol

It would be interesting to see one more field for each - opportunities. 16 comebacks is "low" - unless it's paired with 25 opportunities.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Which probably factored into Belichick's decision in an odd way as well. Yes, it made the kick from Folk harder, but if you have confidence he can make it (which to be fair, he VERY nearly did), then Tom has to either score a touchdown in less than a minute, or the TAMPA kicker has to make a tough kick in the rain as well. Basically, Bill gambled that his kicker was better in the rain than Tampa's. Didn't work out, c'est la vie.

The odds were in our favor to win that game if Folk made it...Brady (as I've repeated many times before on this forum) has never had a long game tying or game winning drive in the NFL with less than a minute to go in the 4th...anyway, the great thing about that game was that Mac stared Brady right in his face and outplayed him after only his 4th start.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Montana at the bottom of the list (tied w/ Tarkenton). According to Timmy, he's supposed to be the most clutch player in history. Lol

That's because Montana was a starting QB for the equivalent of only 12 NFL seasons (192 games)....

 

[Rob0729]

We're in the era of moral victories.

It isn't about moral victories. If we are judging a great QB based on being able to come back at the end of the game and take the lead on the final drive, you discount his achievements if he holds up his end and others let him down.

 

[Rob0729]

It was 56 yards but that one was on the coaching. They didn't trust their rookie QB who was playing well and vs an injured secondary and went for the low percentage FG that even if made would have given the ball back to the GOAT. I believe Mac would have made the 4th and 3 if they went for it. As scared a coaching move as I've seen in a while.

And if he didn't make it so be it. If that somehow "ruined" Mac's confidence like I heard it would have then he should have never been drafted here.

I agree with your overall point, but I'm pretty sure Folk's FG was 50+ (maybe 53?). Still not a bad showing to get them in that position, and it's not like it's his fault that they chose the FG attempt over going for it, but 53 isn't a case of "QB did all he could and the kicker blew a gimme".

EDIT: Talking about Folk's FG attempt in the Tampa game, in case there was any confusion there.

EDIT2: Even longer than I thought:

View attachment 43544

I stand corrected.

 

[Boston Boxer]

my expectation for Jones is to improve in all categories.. I think 4,300 yards, 27 TDs, and 10 ints

 

[Bruins29]

That's because Montana was a starting QB for the equivalent of only 12 NFL seasons (192 games)....

The lesson. Take better care of yourself and you will be in better shape and overall healthier.

 

[venecol]

It isn't about moral victories. If we are judging a great QB based on being able to come back at the end of the game and take the lead on the final drive, you discount his achievements if he holds up his end and others let him down.

I get that but unfortunately that's not how GWD and 4QC are measured. Maybe we can add another stat like GAWD & 4QAC. Brady would probably be tops in those also since our D lost many leads after an almost come back.