Official 2022 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Guts]

12-13 wins sounds about right

 

[VectorPrime]

They’re gonna take one of the Saints games for once. And Watson ain’t gonna be playing for the Browns.

 

[venecol]

Still don't get why so many pats fans be hating on Brady.

 

[gobesmug]

Still don't get why so many pats fans be hating on Brady.

Not Patriots fans, Belicheck fans. Belicheck fans hate Brady because they want to think Bill is the biggest reason for the Pats success.

Brady winning in Tampa and generating all the media love just triggered them to go insane.

Heck they even ignored Belicheck himself when he praised Brady and gave Brady the biggest credit behind his success.

Since 2008 Belicheck fans have wanted to replace Brady. There were discussions here about people wanting to keep Cassell and trade Brady away.

Real Pats fans were the ones at Foxboro who gave Brady a standing ovation last year when he returned then when the game started cheered for the Pats.

 

[1960Pats]

Not Patriots fans, Belicheck fans. Belicheck fans hate Brady because they want to think Bill is the biggest reason for the Pats success.

Brady winning in Tampa and generating all the media love just triggered them to go insane.

Heck they even ignored Belicheck himself when he praised Brady and gave Brady the biggest credit behind his success.

Since 2008 Belicheck fans have wanted to replace Brady. There were discussions here about people wanting to keep Cassell and trade Brady away.

Real Pats fans were the ones at Foxboro who gave Brady a standing ovation last year when he returned then when the game started cheered for the Pats.

It's nice to be able to have this discussion. There's no sense even trying to do this in the main forum. Heads would explode.

The dumbest argument for Team Bill is that he taught Brady to be great. Those same people probably think that Bill also made Lawrence Taylor great. It's too bad that Bill couldn't do the same thing with N'Keal Harry though. I wonder why?

 

[Guts]

It's nice to be able to have this discussion. There's no sense even trying to do this in the main forum. Heads would explode.

The dumbest argument for Team Bill is that he taught Brady to be great. Those same people probably think that Bill also made Lawrence Taylor great. It's too bad that Bill couldn't do the same thing with N'Keal Harry though. I wonder why?

Nah I disagree Belichick did help Brady tremendously and he wouldn't be the GOAT without him.(dame goes vice versa)

 

[1960Pats]

Nah I disagree Belichick did help Brady tremendously and he wouldn't be the GOAT without him.(dame goes vice versa)

Sure Bill helped, but it was Brady who made Brady great. Just as it was Taylor who made Taylor great. If Bill is such a great teacher why haven't more of his players been great? Why, after spending all these years with Bill, hasn't Slater become a useful WR? The answer is talent or lack of talent, not coaching.

 

[sb1]

Sounds about right if they stay healthy and nobody pulls an AB.

Bucs over/under is 11.5. Other than injuries I can't see any way they go under. I think they're winning it all.

 

[sb1]

Sure Bill helped, but it was Brady who made Brady great. Just as it was Taylor who made Taylor great. If Bill is such a great teacher why haven't more of his players been great? Why, after spending all these years with Bill, hasn't Slater become a useful WR? The answer is talent or lack of talent, not coaching.

And we talk like 7 wins coaching a bad QB and football team in 2020 was some sort of great accomplishment for Bill. Great coaches which Bill is can maximize what they have. But all they had was a 7 win team at best and a losing season.

Proves that great players matter a lot more than the great coach. Said many times that Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl. Caldwell is not a great coach.

Happy we had both the all time great player and coach. Understandable that other fans are jealous I would be too.

 

[Tottie]

The topic of bill helped Brady is not one that can be had here simply because they don't mean it in the normal sense. Every player has been helped by caching but these people believe that Bill's help meant more to Tom than other tandems. They say this because of 6 championships which is unprecedented. Surely there is a reason right? Wrong. Players won all of them and coaching was important in all of them but Bill created no one. If he had that much power we should see 1 or 2 championships in the coming years.

 

[sb1]

The topic of bill helped Brady is not one that can be had here simply because they don't mean it in the normal sense. Every player has been helped by caching but these people believe that Bill's help meant more to Tom than other tandems. They say this because of 6 championships which is unprecedented. Surely there is a reason right? Wrong. Players won all of them and coaching was important in all of them but Bill created no one. If he had that much power we should see 1 or 2 championships in the coming years.

Yeah. If Bill or any coach had that much power, a really bad 2020 Patriots team would have at least made the playoffs.

"It's a players game."
-- Bill Belichick many times

 

[PatsWSB47]

Grow up MAC10. You're Like a 3rd grader with your laughs after every other post in this forum. But I apologize for the 3rd grader remark. I meant to say 2nd grader.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nah I disagree Belichick did help Brady tremendously and he wouldn't be the GOAT without him.(dame goes vice versa)

Players need coaching. That doesn't mean that the coaches make the players in any sense beyond the norm. No coach made Peyton. No coach made Montana. No coach made Brady. BB the coach whisperer failed to find/make a Brady equivalent with every other QB he's ever coached. There's a reason for that, and it's because they weren't Tom Brady.

 

[PatsWSB47]

So predictable 10. Hey everybody. Mac10 got back at me with another laugh emogi. He really showed me! Keep wearing that pork chop around your neck so your dog notices you. No one is laughing with you. Guess who they're laughing at?

 

[venecol]

There's no doubt that Bill is a great coach. He seems to be able to elevate mediocre players, especially on the defensive side of the ball. He has his teams well prepared as long as they buy in. As far as Brady goes, Charlie Weis probably had a bigger influence on Tom than Bill did during the early part of his career.

As for the effect on wins, I would say having Bill as the HC probably adds 2 wins in a regular season, whereas, having Tom adds 5 wins. Tom is by far the biggest factor in the two dynasties. People ignore the intangeble effects that Tom had on the players (on both sides of the ball) just by being a leader and in helping Bill to get everyone to "buy in" just by his own actions. We saw the unmitigated proof of this when he went to Tampa. To a player, they all attributed Tom with elevating the team by example and changing it to a SB winning culture.

 

[Guts]

Players need coaching. That doesn't mean that the coaches make the players. BB the coach whisperer failed to find/make a Brady equivalent with every other QB he's ever coached. There's a reason for that, and it's because they weren't Tom Brady.

I'm not saying he made Brady my main point was he helped him become what he became. I'm sure he would've been great elsewhere maybe even HOF due to his intense competitiveness, mental toughness, and the will to win which is stuff you cant measure , but he wouldn't be the GOAT without that guidance from BB in the beginning(IMO)

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not saying he made Brady my main point was he helped him become what he became. I'm sure he would've been great elsewhere maybe even HOF due to his intense competitiveness, mental toughness, and the will to win which is stuff you cant measure , but he wouldn't be the GOAT without that guidance from BB in the beginning(IMO)

We'll never know about that part in bold. Imagine if Brady had been coached by Andy Reid, for example.

But look around at NFL history, and it's rare that a coach is the reason an elite player becomes an elite player. Now, a system/team is a different matter. But finding the no-talent guy who a specific coach turned into a football god is almost impossible.

 

[Tottie]

We'll never know about that part in bold. Imagine if Brady had been coached by Andy Reid, for example.

But look around at NFL history, and it's rare that a coach is the reason an elite player becomes an elite player. Now, a system/team is a different matter. But finding the no-talent guy who a specific coach turned into a football god is almost impossible.

It's not almost impossible it's ridiculous. Can someone please name me one other example.

 

[venecol]

 

[1960Pats]

We'll never know about that part in bold. Imagine if Brady had been coached by Andy Reid, for example.

But look around at NFL history, and it's rare that a coach is the reason an elite player becomes an elite player. Now, a system/team is a different matter. But finding the no-talent guy who a specific coach turned into a football god is almost impossible.

Does Bill Walsh get credit for Montana's success? Does Tony Dungy get credit for PEDton Manning's? Did Mike McCarthy get credit for Aaron Rodgers? Of course not on all counts. But somehow we're supposed to believe that Bill should get credited with Brady's success, even though Bill never won squat without Brady, even with the Pats.