12 wins, book it.

[Rob0729]

Miami split
Buffelo get swept
Jets Sweep

They were swept by Miami last year and split with Buffalo. Both are improved as are the Jets.

Steelers and Ravens split. It could be the other way around who knows but I can't see them winning both. Honestly they could be 0-4. That's a brutal first quarter of the season.

Packers and Lions split.

Cleveland and Chicago split. Maybe you can make an case they sweep these two but with Watson I expect the Browns will have a bounce back year.

Indy and Minn split. Has the defense done anything to make you think Taylor won't run all over them again? Ryan > Wentz.

Cards, Raiders and Bengals. By this time in the season who knows where all the teams will be at with injuries. I'll give them the Cards as they seem to implode down the stretch. They'll be a dog against both the Bengrals and Raiders.

8-9 but I could see them scheming it up to go as good as 10-7 again. I hope you're right and they are 12-5. I'd be psyched to be wrong. I'm setting my expectations that this is year two of the rebuild with MJ10. I expect the offense will be more dynamic. I also think the defense still has a lot of holes. Losing Jackson hurts. We'll see.

Sun, Sep 11	@	Miami0-0	1:00 PM EDT CBS	Loss
Sun, Sep 18	@	Pittsburgh0-0	1:00 PM EDT CBS	Win
Sun, Sep 25	vs	Baltimore0-0	1:00 PM EDT FOX	Loss
Sun, Oct 2	@	Green Bay0-0	4:25 PM EDT CBS	Loss
Sun, Oct 9	vs	Detroit0-0	1:00 PM EDT FOX	Win
Sun, Oct 16	@	Cleveland0-0	1:00 PM EDT CBS	Loss
Mon, Oct 24	vs	Chicago0-0	8:15 PM EDT ESPN	Win
Sun, Oct 30	@	NY Jets0-0	1:00 PM EDT CBS	Win
Sun, Nov 6	vs	Indianapolis0-0	1:00 PM EST CBS	Loss
		Bye Week
Sun, Nov 20	vs	NY Jets0-0	1:00 PM EST CBS	Win
Thu, Nov 24	@	Minnesota0-0	8:20 PM EST NBC	Win
Thu, Dec 1	vs	Buffalo0-0	8:15 PM EST	Loss
Mon, Dec 12	@	Arizona0-0	8:15 PM EST ESPN	Win
Sun, Dec 18	@	Las Vegas0-0	8:20 PM EST NBC	Loss
Sat, Dec 24	vs	Cincinnati0-0	1:00 PM EST CBS	Loss
Sun, Jan 1	vs	Miami0-0	1:00 PM EST CBS	Win
Sun, Jan 8	@	Buffalo0-0	Time: TBD	Loss

The odds the Pats face the Browns with Watson under center is slim. I expect the Pats to win that game.

 

[pazrul72]

Yeah, and he drew interest from the 49ers, Bengals, Browns, Giants, Ravens and Panthers.

I guess google is too hard for you.

Your examples are of teams who won Super Bowls. It takes a special type of moron to look at winning a Super Bowl as "continually failed."

LOL!! "Multiple Super Bowls"..?!? This post-Brady Patriots are a team that missed the playoffs then lost by 30 in the playoffs. Let's slow your roll and talk about how to improve that team before we start talking about "multiple Super Bowls."

The Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with legit #1's catching the ball.

The Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with legit #1's catching the ball.

Actually yeah you kinda really did.

The Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with legit #1's catching the ball.

I am done with you. You are the worst combination of idiotic and ignorant.

What legit #1’s catching the ball? On nobodies list is Branch, Brown, or Eldeman a legit #1 that is revisionist history at best, every year they were here people screamed to get Brady better weapons. Edelman in particular is getting his playoff performance, which were outstanding, to cover for his mediocre reg seasons. He had I think (1) 1,000 yard season and that was late in his career.
Now I will grant you Gronk and Moss fit a description of a legit #1, THE guy that the defense has to know where he is at and account for every play. Welker was borderline that good as well but he fails the other description of a legit #1 the outside threat that stretches the field and opens everything else up. Of the 6 wins, I would count the 10 appearances but the argument is wins, only the Seattle, and the 2nd Rams, had Gronk and the Rams game was SOOO much more about the defense. In my book that’s 1 of 6 that having a dominant #1 receiving threat made a difference in the win.

There is a clear organizational policy in place that WR are not valued as highly here as other franchises. One that I agree with, I mean obviously who wouldn’t want a Moss, or a Calvin Johnson, Diggs, Adams, name your favorite, if they didn’t cost 20-25 million per? But they do cost that much and at the end of the day the ROI just isn’t there.
Let’s say you have 25 million to spend on your WR corp. Do you want an 18 million guy, a 4 million guy, and (3) 1 million dollar guys? Or you can have a 10 million guy, (3) 4.5 million guys and a million dollar PS guy to develop. I think the 2nd option is not as dominant but is much harder to stop. Assuming you have the kind of QB that sees the whole field and goes to the open man. Plus in the first option your 18 million guy goes down you are screwed, your 10 million guy goes down you still have 3 viable options. It’s not that I don’t want a legit #1 and would be ecstatic if they landed one in the draft, it’s that at the cost it’s more realistic to have (3) #2 receivers then to have that dominant #1.

 

[XLIX]

What legit #1’s catching the ball? On nobodies list is Branch, Brown, or Eldeman a legit #1 that is revisionist history at best,

No, the revisionist history is coming from the idiots who don’t acknowledge how good those players were. As mentioned before, Brown was #10 in the NFL in receiving yards in 2001.

On what planet is the #10 WR in the League not considered a legit #1 on his own team?

Let’s say you have 25 million to spend on your WR corp.

No, let’s not say that because it’s a stupid statement. The League has evolved. WR is now the most important position on the field save the QB himself. The strategies that worked 25 years ago are not the ones which will work today.

 

[Pats1971]

No, the revisionist history is coming from the idiots who don’t acknowledge how good those players were. As mentioned before, Brown was #10 in the NFL in receiving yards in 2001.

On what planet is the #10 WR in the League not considered a legit #1 on his own team?

No, let’s not say that because it’s a stupid statement. The League has evolved. WR is now the most important position on the field save the QB himself. The strategies that worked 25 years ago are not the ones which will work today.

Pats fans remind me of cowboy fans sometime. Cowboy fans for years thought, oh if you have a great run game, you win superbowls, then the league changed and they kept trying to ride that ship. We no longer have a QB that can make 7th round QB's into highlight reel players, we need great receivers now to win. The days of scraping the bottom for receivers every year are over.

 

[Pats2000]

No, the revisionist history is coming from the idiots who don’t acknowledge how good those players were. As mentioned before, Brown was #10 in the NFL in receiving yards in 2001.

On what planet is the #10 WR in the League not considered a legit #1 on his own team?

No, let’s not say that because it’s a stupid statement. The League has evolved. WR is now the most important position on the field save the QB himself. The strategies that worked 25 years ago are not the ones which will work today.

Didn't the Pats win a Superbowl in 2019? I mean, that doesn't feel like 25 years ago

 

[TheRainMaker]

Because BB has been so good at drafting WR. He's not going to go out there and pay gobs of money for a #1. Obviously if he can get Randy Moss on the cheap, sure he'll take that deal. But the team has almost always been built around having more versatile guys and not a true #1.

I agree that WR’s are becoming way too expensive, but they are the new RB. Because of this, we saw how many teams took a WR so early in the draft. My original point was if all things were equal in terms of salary or they were able to draft them which I wasn’t clear.

Just tell me again how the Pats focus has been on having a true #1 dominant WR and how that strategy brought then 6 SBs

First 3 was a different era with every team wanting to establish the running game. I think their WR’s as a group were very solid with Branch and Givens as the top WR’s with Brown and Patten as the reserves. This group more often than not made timely catches and showed up in shootouts.

With the next 3 Super Bowls, Pats had the most dominant TE during his best years. Pats only won one without him and won 2 with him.

Your theory is fine if the current group showed up like the 2002-2005 group did, but they haven’t. In fact, they’ve been so ineffective, it prompted Bill to take a chance on Parker and trade up to draft Thornton for his big play ability.

 

[Pats2000]

I agree that WR’s are becoming way too expensive, but they are the new RB. Because of this, we saw how many teams took a WR so early in the draft. My original point was if all things were equal in terms of salary or they were able to draft them which I wasn’t clear.

First 3 was a different era with every team wanting to establish the running game. I think their WR’s as a group were very solid with Branch and Givens as the top WR’s with Brown and Patten as the reserves. This group more often than not made timely catches and showed up in shootouts.

With the next 3 Super Bowls, Pats had the most dominant TE during his best years. Pats only won one without him and won 2 with him.

Your theory is fine if the current group showed up like the 2002-2005 group did, but they haven’t. In fact, they’ve been so ineffective, it prompted Bill to take a chance on Parker and trade up to draft Thornton for his big play ability.

I was approaching it more from the standpoint of the current group upside. There's no clear dominant #1, but I think they have enough talent across the group to be a top offense thus year

 

[pazrul72]

No, the revisionist history is coming from the idiots who don’t acknowledge how good those players were. As mentioned before, Brown was #10 in the NFL in receiving yards in 2001.

On what planet is the #10 WR in the League not considered a legit #1 on his own team?

No, let’s not say that because it’s a stupid statement. The League has evolved. WR is now the most important position on the field save the QB himself. The strategies that worked 25 years ago are not the ones which will work today.

i LOVE Troy Brown he is by far my favorite player of all time. You look up football player and his picture is there in the dictionary. All of that said you are taking his best year with his best stat and he barely cracks the top 10. He was on and off the team as a special teamer for years before finally breaking thru at the end of his career. As his biggest fan if I can admit he was never in any “legit #1” conversations why can’t you? He played his role, did it well, and is in the patriot HOF for his contribution with ZERO shot at the nfl HOF. That’s the planet I live on where in either #1 definition you want to use, outside deep threat, or THE man you must stop every play, sorry just no where to be found on that list.

I would put offensive line, pass rush, and corner all ahead of WR in terms of importance. Mostly as a supply and demand issue. There are tons of 5‘10-6’3 guys who can run, jump, and catch at an NFL level that start at a young age cuz scoring is sexy. 25 million is 10% of the salary cap. Where are you cutting and playing Scrubs because you run out of money paying more then that to hood ornaments? I’m assuming you are one of those people who are fine paying QBs 20% of your cap as well? How are they getting the ball out if your RG is garbage PS caliber and gives up a sack every other play? The more football changes, and it has for the worse IMO the past 20 years, the more it stays the same. Who has the better line? Who is able to play more consistent good football? Which team is more rounded and doesn’t have an exploitable hole *cough* GB ”special” teams *cough*. Who is the more disciplined team that plays higher then their talent? WRs are grossly overpaid and it’s only getting worse. I still want 3 #2 over 1 #1 as it’s harder to defend.

 

[venecol]

Let's try to understand the logic of this argument. If Bill had a chance to take any WR in the NFL today, he wouldn't take some of the league's best because he'd rather have a lessor option to fool the defense?

I mean, he took a chance and landed the most dominant TE during his prime years in Gronk. In fact, Gronk commanded so much attention it frustrated teams enough to where they'd put their best defender on him which gave favorable matchups to Welker, Edelman, Hogan and Amendola. Even White got LB's with cement feet in coverage when teams put their best LB on Gronk.

If this theory that has been argued true, Bill would've shipped Gronk out while he was dominating because he's too good.

It's a dumb argument. We all know the only reason Bill never went after a true #1 top end talent (aside from Moss and AB) is because he just didn't want to tie up cap space in that position. Who's the 1st WR to get paid over $10M? Agholor? And that's cheap for a receiver nowadays.

 

[XLIX]

i LOVE Troy Brown he is by far my favorite player of all time. You look up football player and his picture is there in the dictionary. All of that said you are taking his best year with his best stat and he barely cracks the top 10. He was on and off the team as a special teamer for years before finally breaking thru at the end of his career. As his biggest fan if I can admit he was never in any “legit #1” conversations why can’t you?

"I love Troy Brown!! I love him more than anybody!! But let me tell you why he sucked!!!"



I cannot believe how much I am being attacked for having a simple opinion that Mac Jones will be a top 10 QB this year if we can adjust for his bad receiving/end corps. How about all you Bills fans go over to their forum? You can have a Josh Allen *********** all morning, noon and night...

 

[pazrul72]

"I love Troy Brown!! I love him more than anybody!! But let me tell you why he sucked!!!"

Never said he sucked. Quite the opposite I gave him the highest compliment I can think of, he was a football player. Not some high strung diva WR that thinks the sun shines out his butt. I have a signed picture of Bingo that is my most prized possession. The man did it all punt returner, DB, WR at a high level but to talk like he was dominant and a game changer is revisionist history garbage. But good job focusing on the “gotcha” sentence instead of debating anything else I wrote.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

How many SBs did Moss win?
How about Megatron, Larry, Julio, Hopkins, Adams, TO, AJ,TBrown,Carter,Largent,Lofton,Joiner,Monk,Reed,Moulds....

There are more GREAT WR's that HAVEN'T won a SB than have.

Gimme a bunch of SOLID guys that can get open and catch the ball, and spend the extra $ on other important items like DEPTH, which becomes critical almost every year.

 

[Pats2000]

How many SBs did Moss win?
How about Megatron, Larry, Julio, Hopkins, Adams, TO, AJ,TBrown,Carter,Largent,Lofton,Joiner,Monk,Reed,Moulds....

There are more GREAT WR's that HAVEN'T won a SB than have.

Gimme a bunch of SOLID guys that can get open and catch the ball, and spend the extra $ on other important items like DEPTH, which becomes critical almost every year.

No no, it's all about that one WR, because in a few games there was a WR that took over

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Terrell Owens won his part of Super Bowl 39

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Terrell Owens won his part of Super Bowl 39

He certainly held up his end, but in the end, another great wr that never won a SB.
IF Reche holds onto the ball, Harrison and Wayne don't have 1 either.

 

[Dingleberry]

@PatsFanInVa

Pats wins Over 11.5 will get you +600 odds once the Casino opens back up in August.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Defense can't get off the field. Contain Barrmore and Judon and it's a wrap for the pass rush. Can't catch up to Josh Allen or any mobile qb. Secondary has no #1 shutdown corner, parts, old pieces and hopefuls. Untested linebackers. I watch the playoff game this weekend, KC VS Buffalo and i tried to picture the current Patriots defense slowing down any fast teams. To have 12 wins you gotta have some 3 and outs late in the game. We got run over and had an inconsistent pass rush. For me i hope for a miracle which would be 12 wins.

I agree the pass rush and run defense feels like it will be tough to watch, but BB knows that so maybe Uche and Perkins will flash while signing Flowers. I hope it works out in the secondary too.

 

[venecol]

I learned in this thread that no HOF WR ever won a SB. Position is definitely overrated.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

@PatsFanInVa

Pats wins Over 11.5 will get you +600 odds once the Casino opens back up in August.

Barring an injury rash or an outbreak of common sense, I'm taking that action

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

According to someone I know: Calvin Johnson, before retiring, demanded a trade to the Patriots and offered to restructure his contract to make it team friendly. Belichick smirked, said "no thank you" and went on to win three more Super Bowls.

Most of you think the Patriots can't draft a WR, but you're a bunch of amateurs who know nothing about football, trying to second a guess a man who has EIGHT rings. I'm sure you think drafting guys like Chad Jackson, Aaron Dobson., N'Keal Harry, etc. were a series of bad decisions. What you don't know, and what I know, is that each of these selections led to Super Bowl wins in ways you can't comprehend.

I'll give you one example: Dobson may not have had "flashy" numbers or highlight reel plays, but Bill had begun devising a play called 237/Street/4-Z since the late 80s. Dobson was the only receiver who could pull off the combination of blocking and route running required to execute it. The Patriots ran this play in a critical situation in 2014 and otherwise would have been eliminated before the Seahawks Super Bowl.

But yeah...keep waiving your pom poms for your ESPN highlight reel fakers like Jerry Rice, Stefon Diggs, "Reek", Devante "I lose every big game" Adams, and Deebo "I've never won a championship" Samuel. I'll take Bill Belichick's opinion, with his EIGHT rings, over your Madden obsessed idiocy any day of the week. To date, no prima donna wide receiver has ever won a Super Bowl and that won't change.

Just look at 2001. The Rams had Tory "Flashy Flashy" Holt and Isaac "Hot Doggin'" Bruce. The Patriots had blue collar guys like Troy Brown and David Patton, guys who simply showed up early to work and punched out late, who may not have been physically as gifted as the Rams receivers but were coachable, stuck with the gameplan, and didn't complain all the time about not getting enough targets. With the game on the line, they focused on what the team needed and not about winning some fancy car as SB MVP. And this was back when Brady was absolutely terrible and was completely dependent on Bill's other worldly gameplans.

Who won that game again? Oh yeah, that's right: the Patriots. Not the flashy Rams receivers and their razzle dazzle, prima donna, "gimme my stats" attitude.