PFT: Matt Patricia to call plays on offense?

[All3Phases]

They are making the LBs smaller and faster now which is a complete different philosophy than what Belichick had for over 20 years here and decades before that. One of the biggest mainstays of the Belichick defense has always been big, strong LBs with gap control. Now he is moving to a smaller, faster LB corp which may be less likely to be doing as much two gapping. The change to zone last year was out of necessity. The move to younger, smaller, faster LBs is a philosophy change.

And do we know they are actually simplifying the playbook or just allowing the new coaching staff to put their stamp on the offense? I haven't heard from anyone that the new play calling scheme is any more or less complicated than the old one or that they were paring down the playbook.

The scheme change also is kind of irrelevant here. BB has always adjusted to the teams strengths and hes mostly adapted with the times. Some things, I think hes been stubborn on, but mostly hes changed. That is not the same as standardizing verbiage/terminology etc. They dont do that to make it harder for everybody to catch on, that's something that's done for everybody to be on the same level

 

[203Pat]

I am not being defensive. I just don't have your blind hatred of Belichick and looking at this rationally.

Again, you don't see me praising this decision or not saying that Belichick could have gotten someone better for the job. I am just saying Belichick isn't an idiot and he knows Patricia is well versed on the offense and capable of being a signal caller. Whether he is good signal caller is yet to be seen. But I have no doubt that after nearly 20 years here including two years on the offensive side of the ball, he knows what it takes to run the offense. Again, doesn't mean he will be good at it.

I am not going to kill Belichick or Patricia before a single scrimmage, pre-season game, or regular season snap. You have already labeled this move a bust. Who knows? Patricia could end up being a better offensive coordinator than he was a defensive coordinator.

You do realize that Patricia has as many years as an offensive assistant as McDaniels did when McDaniels first took over the play calling role. Sure McDaniels was a QB coach, but he spent his first four years on the defensive side of the ball.

You're one of those people that alleges that anyone who is critical of Bill is a hater. I have said numerous times on here Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time. I just don't blindly defend everything he does. You think this was really the best he could do? Have Patricia call plays just because he is here? He should have offered Billy O but he didn't want to upset his friend Saban. That is where I think Bill is a hypocrite when he says he "does what is best for the team". What is best for the team is getting an experienced offensive play caller who seemed to have interest in returning and knows the team and the offense. Hell I would've felt better about bringing back Chad O'Shea and giving him a shot. Patricia got the job because he was there and this nonsense about how Bill wouldn't give someone the job who couldn't do it is ridiculous. He brought in DeGugliemo to take over for Dante and it became pretty clear DeGugliemo couldn't do the job. Same with Cam Newton playing all year when it was clear he couldn't do the job. Sometimes Bill leaves the cupboard bare and is forced to make less than ideal decisions because of it.

 

[203Pat]

They are making the LBs smaller and faster now which is a complete different philosophy than what Belichick had for over 20 years here and decades before that. One of the biggest mainstays of the Belichick defense has always been big, strong LBs with gap control. Now he is moving to a smaller, faster LB corp which may be less likely to be doing as much two gapping. The change to zone last year was out of necessity. The move to younger, smaller, faster LBs is a philosophy change.

And do we know they are actually simplifying the playbook or just allowing the new coaching staff to put their stamp on the offense? I haven't heard from anyone that the new play calling scheme is any more or less complicated than the old one or that they were paring down the playbook.

He is bringing in smaller faster linebackers but so far he isn't playing them. Winovich was supposed to be an athletic edge guy and was just shipped out of town. Uche hasn't seen the field much and he brought back Van Noy and Collins last year to clog things up at LB. I am hoping that changes this year but he did re-sign two guys who fit the more traditional Bill LB in Bentley and McMillan and has drafted bigger guys like Perkins, and Jennings. We will see if McGrone and Uche can play this year and if so we might finally get that change in philosophy.

 

[All3Phases]

And despite Mac Jones' great start to his career, the passing game still wasn't anything people feared. The Patriots spent a lot of money on Jonnu Smith and he became basically a blocker because he couldn't grasp the offense.

Also, it might not have been a passing game that was feared, but they had a bunch of new pieces and a rookie quarterback...They didnt feel like need to alter anything when they went from Brady to Cam to Mac and a new offensive weaponry...Only when McDaniels left, they decided to change.

 

[Rob0729]

You're one of those people that alleges that anyone who is critical of Bill is a hater. I have said numerous times on here Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time. I just don't blindly defend everything he does. You think this was really the best he could do? Have Patricia call plays just because he is here? He should have offered Billy O but he didn't want to upset his friend Saban. That is where I think Bill is a hypocrite when he says he "does what is best for the team". What is best for the team is getting an experienced offensive play caller who seemed to have interest in returning and knows the team and the offense. Hell I would've felt better about bringing back Chad O'Shea and giving him a shot. Patricia got the job because he was there and this nonsense about how Bill wouldn't give someone the job who couldn't do it is ridiculous. He brought in DeGugliemo to take over for Dante and it became pretty clear DeGugliemo couldn't do the job. Same with Cam Newton playing all year when it was clear he couldn't do the job. Sometimes Bill leaves the cupboard bare and is forced to make less than ideal decisions because of it.

Where did I say this is the best he could do? In fact, I have said the opposite. I would rather have had him get an established OC he has comfort in. I just don't think it is the disaster you and others seem to think it is.

And if Belichick has an arrangement with Saban, you cannot fault him for honoring it. There could have been dozens of assistants that Saban could have poached from Belichick over the years and may not have. And we do not even know if O'Brien wanted to come back to the Pats anyway.

And Belichick isn't perfect. Just because Gooch was a bust doesn't mean all his coaching decision are or will be. Overall, he has been pretty damn good with his coordinators. On defense, he went from Crennel to Mangini to Patricia to Flores to his kid/Mayo. And on offense he went from Weis to McDaniels to O'Brien and back to McDaniels. So far (too early to grade Steve Belichick and Mayo), he has had near seemless transitions with coordinators. That should buy him a little grace period with Patricia.

And you assume that Belichick made this decision because the cupboard was bare and he had to make the best with the little he had. But this could have been the plan all along. There was talk of Adam Gase who would love to get back into the NFL right now and that went nowhere. I am sure there are many assistants around the league who would want to be the OC of a promising young QB like Jones. Belichick chose to go with what he had. So Patricia being the play caller could have been by design.

 

[Rob0729]

He is bringing in smaller faster linebackers but so far he isn't playing them. Winovich was supposed to be an athletic edge guy and was just shipped out of town. Uche hasn't seen the field much and he brought back Van Noy and Collins last year to clog things up at LB. I am hoping that changes this year but he did re-sign two guys who fit the more traditional Bill LB in Bentley and McMillan and has drafted bigger guys like Perkins, and Jennings. We will see if McGrone and Uche can play this year and if so we might finally get that change in philosophy.

Uche was injured last year. He did get playing time early and played fairly well. He had three sacks in the first two weeks. His injuries are a concern, but I think his lack of playing later in the year was injury related not performance.

 

[Rob0729]

Also, it might not have been a passing game that was feared, but they had a bunch of new pieces and a rookie quarterback...They didnt feel like need to alter anything when they went from Brady to Cam to Mac and a new offensive weaponry...Only when McDaniels left, they decided to change.

But a coordinator change usually changes the system at least some. McDaniels didn't run the offense the same way Weis did. McDaniels was a bit different because he wasn't the official OC or play caller at first because he was so young and inexperienced. So there wasn't radical changes, but you have seen significant changes on both sides of the ball when coordinators changed. Hell, when they went from Patricia to Flores, the defense went from a more read and react type of defense to a defense that pressured the QB far more forcing the QB to make faster decisions.

 

[203Pat]

Uche was injured last year. He did get playing time early and played fairly well. He had three sacks in the first two weeks. His injuries are a concern, but I think his lack of playing later in the year was injury related not performance.

Outside of the Jags blowout win his snaps were decreasing even prior to the injury. He went from playing 40% of the snaps in late October to under 30% in Early November right before the injury then when he came back for the last 3 weeks he played less than 10% of the snaps in the losses to Miami and Buffalo. He has three sacks in his first two games then statically didn't do much the rest of the year. He looks like he can rush the passer if they let him but they don't seem to want to let him be just a pass rusher.

 

[Rob0729]

Outside of the Jags blowout win his snaps were decreasing even prior to the injury. He went from playing 40% of the snaps in late October to under 30% in Early November right before the injury then when he came back for the last 3 weeks he played less than 10% of the snaps in the losses to Miami and Buffalo. He has three sacks in his first two games then statically didn't do much the rest of the year. He looks like he can rush the passer if they let him but they don't seem to want to let him be just a pass rusher.

Uche got injured week 2 (back injury) and missed week three. He was never the same after that. My guess is his back bothered him for most of the year.

 

[All3Phases]

But a coordinator change usually changes the system at least some. McDaniels didn't run the offense the same way Weis did. McDaniels was a bit different because he wasn't the official OC or play caller at first because he was so young and inexperienced. So there wasn't radical changes, but you have seen significant changes on both sides of the ball when coordinators changed. Hell, when they went from Patricia to Flores, the defense went from a more read and react type of defense to a defense that pressured the QB far more forcing the QB to make faster decisions.

Sure, not sure where we are disagreeing here. I think the combination of the inexperience of the play caller and quarterback are leading to some of this changes. I think its one thing to change a scheme/add on to schemes, etc...And another to simplify all the terminology in the playbook that has been there and been successful for decades. Doesnt make it bad or wrong, I thought it could have been done sooner even with Brady, but I think Josh leaving tipped it over the edge. Theres just not a lot of experience on the offense

 

[Rob0729]

Sure, not sure where we are disagreeing here. I think the combination of the inexperience of the play caller and quarterback are leading to some of this changes. I think its one thing to change a scheme/add on to schemes, etc...And another to simplify all the terminology in the playbook that has been there and been successful for decades. Doesnt make it bad or wrong, I thought it could have been done sooner even with Brady, but I think Josh leaving tipped it over the edge. Theres just not a lot of experience on the offense

I don't know if I buy your reasoning for the change. We do not actually know if the play calling has been simplified or, if it has, why. It really could just that Judge and Patricia want to put their stamp on the plays. Or they find that the McDaniels system isn't a good fit for a Mac Jones led team and it was more for Brady and his strengths. Or they could actually be simplifying it, but it could be because the receiver struggle reading defense and knowing how to make the adjustments based on the coverage.

I will tell you this that Meyers and Agholor struggled running rub routes last year and many times they took themselves out of the play rather than the defender. That could be the reason for the change. The McDaniels defense was so much about rub routes and natural picks. For all we know, that could be the reason for the change.

 

[203Pat]

Uche got injured week 2 (back injury) and missed week three. He was never the same after that. My guess is his back bothered him for most of the year.

True I forgot that it was a back injury. Those are always tricky to come back from. Hoping to see him out there at full strength and see what he can do opposite from Judon.

 

[All3Phases]

I don't know if I buy your reasoning for the change. We do not actually know if the play calling has been simplified or, if it has, why. It really could just that Judge and Patricia want to put their stamp on the plays. Or they find that the McDaniels system isn't a good fit for a Mac Jones led team and it was more for Brady and his strengths. Or they could actually be simplifying it, but it could be because the receiver struggle reading defense and knowing how to make the adjustments based on the coverage.

I will tell you this that Meyers and Agholor struggled running rub routes last year and many times they took themselves out of the play rather than the defender. That could be the reason for the change. The McDaniels defense was so much about rub routes and natural picks. For all we know, that could be the reason for the change.

Im sure there are many factors, I just think its a massive coincidence that it happens now vs the couple years in between Brady to now. I do doubt that its because Judge and Patricia are altering something to their liking. Theyve never coached offense before or called plays, I very much doubt theyre overhauling everything that was built here. I just think theyre making changes to make certain things simpler, with the amount of inexperience on offense, to me it makes sense. When Josh was here, im sure he slowly got Mac into different portions of the playbook, and things like that. Now without him, theres not much guidance in that department

 

[Rob0729]

Im sure there are many factors, I just think its a massive coincidence that it happens now vs the couple years in between Brady to now. I do doubt that its because Judge and Patricia are altering something to their liking. Theyve never coached offense before or called plays, I very much doubt theyre overhauling everything that was built here. I just think theyre making changes to make certain things simpler, with the amount of inexperience on offense, to me it makes sense. When Josh was here, im sure he slowly got Mac into different portions of the playbook, and things like that. Now without him, theres not much guidance in that department

But you are combining two theories here. And they are mutually exclusive theories although both could be the reason. The inexperience of the play callers and the players struggling with the playbook are two different things.

But again, we do not even know if the playbook is actually simplified or even or even by how much. We just know it is different. So everything is speculation at this point.

 

[All3Phases]

But you are combining two theories here. And they are mutually exclusive theories although both could be the reason. The inexperience of the play callers and the players struggling with the playbook are two different things.

But again, we do not even know if the playbook is actually simplified or even or even by how much. We just know it is different. So everything is speculation at this point.

Both could definitely play a part, I think one more than the other though, which is why I bring up going from Brady to Cam to Mac and nothing changed in terms of simplifying....But once Josh left, this all comes out. I think its telling, but again like you said its speculation. I just think when theres smoke, theres fire. Enough has come out from players/coaches to know that theres change at the very least to terminology and to streamline the offense. To me, that is done to make something easier to grasp rather than more difficult.

 

[venecol]

Despite what some people on this board think, Belichick is not an idiot. He is not going to hand over the keys to the offense to someone who doesn't understand it and tell him to learn how to run an offense on the job.

After Scar retired, Belichick handed the OL coaching to DeGuglielmo. He was fired after 2 seasons. Belichick is a man. He makes mistakes. You don't have to be an idiot to make mistakes. It happens.

 

[Rob0729]

After Scar retired, Belichick handed the OL coaching to DeGuglielmo. He was fired after 2 seasons. Belichick is a man. He makes mistakes. You don't have to be an idiot to make mistakes. It happens.

I already addressed that. But Gooch was qualified for the job, but just not good. The guy was offensive line coach for other teams both in college and the NFL for 20 years before Belichick hired him. Totally different situation than this.

Again, people are labeling Patricia a bust before he has called a single play. Not even in a scrimmage. He could be a bust, but none of know if he will be for sure until he actually has a chance to be a bust.

 

[Rob0729]

Both could definitely play a part, I think one more than the other though, which is why I bring up going from Brady to Cam to Mac and nothing changed in terms of simplifying....But once Josh left, this all comes out. I think its telling, but again like you said its speculation. I just think when theres smoke, theres fire. Enough has come out from players/coaches to know that theres change at the very least to terminology and to streamline the offense. To me, that is done to make something easier to grasp rather than more difficult.

But what you are describing has to do more with McDaniels. But they did simplify the offense with Newton and Jones under McDaniels. They didn't change terminology, but they clearly didn't use the entire playbook. They ran a limited number of plays for Newton. And with Jones, you saw it quite a bit in the red zone where they got ultra conservative. It is just a different way to simplify things than what we are assuming is going on now.

 

[venecol]

I already addressed that. But Gooch was qualified for the job, but just not good. The guy was offensive line coach for other teams both in college and the NFL for 20 years before Belichick hired him. Totally different situation than this.

Again, people are labeling Patricia a bust before he has called a single play. Not even in a scrimmage. He could be a bust, but none of know if he will be for sure until he actually has a chance to be a bust.

I'm not sure anyone has labelled him a bust (how can they?). People (pretty much throughout the league) are raising concerns. I think the concerns are valid.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not sure anyone has labelled him a bust (how can they?). People (pretty much throughout the league) are raising concerns. I think the concerns are valid.

There is a difference between concern and irrational fear. Some here are doing the latter.