DRAFT Patriots select WR Tyquan Thornton at 50.

[Love The Drake]

PatsFans....help me out

Who's the NE WR who caught passes from Brady about a decade or so ago, and upon completion, fell to the ground immediately, even when uncovered?
"Catch and Fall" most every time
It was uncanny
The guy in question got open, had good hands, but didn't have the fortitude to turn up the field and fight for extra yards.
Dependable but not dynamic
And he did not last in NE

Meyers is a bit different.
He tries to turn up field.
Unfortunately, his glacial acceleration and inability to shed contact make him no different than the "Catch and Fall" guy.

Lack of YAC is a quality NE has never had much patience with.
Their high-volume targets have traditionally earned a large % of their yardage after the catch

The notion Brady "would have embraced" a guy like Meyers who is incapable of delivering YAC is a big stretch.
--------------------
Mystery WR....Lafell? Caldwell? someone else?
drawing a blank

Donald Hayes?

 

[borg]

Yes, it's his fault since he buys the groceries & should've had better depth at edge. Why didn't he play Uche more?

Yes, Belichick buys the groceries AND handles all aspects of coaching. Who else is to blame? He picked him & then failed to properly coach him.


Lol, is Winovich a good player? Harry? Who drafted these guys? Who coached them?


Mills wouldn't have helped in a playoff game where they lost by 30 points. Mills gave up a 134 passer rating in the previous game against BUF. Belichick brought back Hightower, Van Noy & traded Gilly for a bag of balls to bring back Collins. He could control all of these things.


Belichick builds the teams depth chart and is responsible for coaching his players up. He buys the groceries & is the cook. If it's not his fault, who's is it? Kraft? Come on man, enough with the excuses.

Truly a remarkable DaBruinz post.
Most of us agree Bill deserves significant latitude given his track record from '01-'19 , but........Total Absolution for all failures is beyond absurd

Greats are great until they're not
Even Fonzi jumped the shark

 

[borg]

Brandon Lloyd 2012. Still the #1 offense that year so he was doing something right.

Bingo
Thanks
Note: Lloyd lasted one season in NE

 

[Nehalem]

PatsFans....help me out

Who's the NE WR who caught passes from Brady about a decade or so ago, and upon completion, fell to the ground immediately, even when uncovered?
"Catch and Fall" most every time
It was uncanny
The guy in question got open, had good hands, but didn't have the fortitude to turn up the field and fight for extra yards.
Dependable but not dynamic
And he did not last in NE

Meyers is a bit different.
He tries to turn up field.
Unfortunately, his glacial acceleration and inability to shed contact make him no different than the "Catch and Fall" guy.

Lack of YAC is a quality NE has never had much patience with.
Their high-volume targets have traditionally earned a large % of their yardage after the catch

The notion Brady "would have embraced" a guy like Meyers who is incapable of delivering YAC is a big stretch.
--------------------
Mystery WR....Lafell? Caldwell? someone else?
drawing a blank

Julian Edelman YAC/r
2018: 4.7
2019: 3.2

Jakobi Meyers
2019: 4.4
2020: 3.7
2021: 2.7

So Meyers actually had more YAC/r with Brady in 2019 than Edelman. And had more with Cam in 2020 than Edelman had with Brady in 2019.

2021 seems to be a bit of an outlier. Rookie QB? Change in usage?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Because he moaned about veteran weapons and once AB shot his way out of town they wasted a second on Sanu… who was a carbon copy of Meyers. They could have been twin brothers.

Tom could simply have used Meyers and saved them a draft pick, not only that but to get Sanu more reps he eviscerated Jakobi in the Cleveland game for failing to run the next progression in a route. Up to that point Meyers had caught 90% of his targets or some stupid good number. A game later Sanu made the same exact mistake Meyers did, AB did it against Miami… Tom just didn’t want rookies.

And once Sanu got hurt, they desperately needed Meyers and his confidence was shot, he was questioning everything and playing half speed. Wouldn’t have mattered, Tom was hurt, they weren’t good enough… but we’d have had a 2nd in 2020.

The Bradystans pretend he walks on water and never errs… he was wrong on Meyers.

Absurdly trading a 2nd for a player like Sanu when BB knew he didn't want to re-sign TB is on him. But before you say they were "all in", trading for Sanu was not going to come close of saving that 2019 season. He was a #2 on a good day, but mostly has been the #3 option at WR during his career.

Also, Bill laughably asking Sanu to return a punt he's done once in his career when they were desperate at WR and where he lacks agility was one of Bill's most idiotic coaching moves.

Brady's pouting did. And Sanu wasn't damaged goods, he caught 10 passes in his 2nd game. Then he got an ankle sprain that effected him the rest of the season.

He also averaged a pedestrian 8.1 yards per reception. See above regarding his ankle. Sanu told SI that he should've shut it down after the ankle injury, but felt immense pressure from the Patriots giving up a 2nd round pick for him.

Why didn't he play Uche more?

Because he's not any good. He's awful against the run and isn't a good pass rusher. Even Tully Banta-Cain learned he needed a counter for his speed move T's easily caught on to.

Mills wouldn't have helped in a playoff game where they lost by 30 points. Mills gave up a 134 passer rating in the previous game against BUF.

This board doesn't seem to realize he gave up the 2nd most TD's in the NFL with 7. Zero INT's, only 7 PD's, 111.1 QB rating when throwing at him. He's now the Pats #1 CB.

 

[venecol]

If everyone is healthy and plays to their talent level, Meyers is the odd man out. But there's a very good chance that not everyone is healthy all year, and an equally good chance that Thornton's role will be limited or specialized in the early part of the season (possibly the whole year). I really doubt they want him out there for a large chunk of snaps until he's had a chance to get in an NFL weight room for a while. With Agholor and Meyers coming off the books next year, 2023 will be where his role increases (assuming he's a hit).

Lazar has WR positions as:

X: Parker/Agholor/Thornton
Z: Bourne
Slot: Meyers

This implies Agholor would have reduced snaps. The rook could be red shirted for all we know, based on playbook + strength development.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Lazar has WR positions as:

X: Parker/Agholor/Thornton
Z: Bourne
Slot: Meyers

This implies Agholor would have reduced snaps. The rook could be red shirted for all we know, based on playbook + strength development.

I don't agree with Lazar regarding the WR's. Parker and Agholor should be the X and Z with Bourne in the slot which bounces Meyers off the field.

Lazar on the defense:

"With more speed and less size at the second level, the Pats might also move away from a two-gapping odd front to more even fronts this season (4-3)."

I agree with Lazar and it's nice to see somebody mention the Pats played more of a 3-4 which people wrongly think they played an even front.

He later explains they go into a over 4-3 alignment when Barmore comes on the field:

'The Patriots typically play an over front when they put four defensive linemen on the field, which presents a role as a penetrating three-technique for second-year stud Christian Barmore and as a designated pass-rusher for Pro Bowler Matthew Judon (in a stand-up role)."

I don't agree with Lazar saying "there's plenty of talent" on D.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What level of secondary opposition did he face in the Big 12? I've seen this raised as a concern and wanted to hear your take.

Pretty good believe it or not. He faced Texas, TCU (two of the best CB in 23 class), OK, OK ST, Ole Miss ... without getting into to a list of names all those teams have NFL caliber players on both sides.

CB & WR are very tough to evaluate imo bc the level of competition they face is so much greater at the next level. The spacing is different/hashes. Big or small school it doesn't matter. WR has gotten a little easier but that jump in competition is greater there compared to every other position. Especially at CB. Every NFL corner is 6'+/200 nowadays. The technique is so much. You're facing so much more man/press. It's just a different planet. Even vs trench players.

Honestly he faced enough good competition. In that regard I'm more worried about Baylors offense vs ours bc there's a huge gap there. I believe that's one of the things we really liked about him. His ability to pick up info so we'll see.

So yea it's a concern but he's got a few things going for him (stupid speed, ability to beat press) to help him right off the bat. Me and a few others (@50-yard-line I believe ?) have basically said this drafts upside/ceiling is directly related to how well TT does and I firmly believe that.

A lot of people like to play revisionist history but selecting Harry that early was going with consensus. Drafting TT at 50 went against the grain there so that's more intrigue with the pick. All eyes on TT though. I'm rooting for him like crazy though. The WR narrative and 2nd RD picks in general will blow up like a suicide bomber if he doesn't hit.

 

[Wozzy]

Meyers is Ok, but he has 2 TDs in 3 seasons. Come on man.

I compared him to a young Mohamed Sanu, I did this when he was signed as an UDFA, and again when Sanu was acquired.

If that's not keeping it realistic about who Meyers is as a player than I don't know what is.

"Good" not "great" is how I would sum it up, but he's very consistent.

 

[venecol]

I don't agree with Lazar regarding the WR's. Parker and Agholor should be the X and Z with Bourne in the slot which bounces Meyers off the field.

Probably based on these snaps. Meyers was the main slot receiver. Agholor was the main X receiver. Bourne played both. Parker is an X, so Agholor snaps should be reduced. Meyers developed great chemistry with Mac. But who knows.

Meyers
Wide: 425
Slot: 550

Bourne
Wide: 372
Slot: 232

Parker
Wide: 465
Slot: 74

Agholor
Wide: 691
Slot: 65

 

[VJCPatriot]

Absurdly trading a 2nd for a player like Sanu when BB knew he didn't want to re-sign TB is on him. But before you say they were "all in", trading for Sanu was not going to come close of saving that 2019 season. He was a #2 on a good day, but mostly has been the #3 option at WR during his career.

Agreed. Trading for Sanu was BB's mistake. Brady didn't wear the GM hat in New England no matter how hard the BB defenders club try to spin it.

This board doesn't seem to realize he gave up the 2nd most TD's in the NFL with 7. Zero INT's, only 7 PD's, 111.1 QB rating when throwing at him. He's now the Pats #1 CB.

I knew Mills was bad, I didn't realize he was THAT BAD! Trading away Gilmore for just a future 6th round pick looks even WORSE now. If BB the GM had traded Gilmore when demand was high, surely he could have secured a better return for a #1 corner, I'm thinking at least a 2nd round pick. Talk about BAD asset management!

 

[Wozzy]

Tyquan Thornton is really fast, tall, explosive and has really long arms.

This has nothing at all to do with N'Keal Harry... let's pretend for a moment it's 2022.

 

[Wozzy]

Lazar has WR positions as:

X: Parker/Agholor/Thornton
Z: Bourne
Slot: Meyers

This implies Agholor would have reduced snaps. The rook could be red shirted for all we know, based on playbook + strength development.

If everyone exits camp/preseason healthy and productive don't dismiss the possibility of a trade. The WR room is crowded.

 

[Zuma]

Who said BB didn't want to re-sign Tom? That was a decision made after 2019 had long ended and Tom was the one who decided to leave... it's literally the "free" in free agent. According to him he decided to leave the year prior... his own words from his Howard Stern interview.

Tom wanted vet WR's. BB got him AB and then Sanu when AB exploded in their face... which everyone including Kraft knew was a possibility... which is why Bob had Tom take some accountability the moment AB was acquired by saying Tom signed off on it. Bob couldn't handle another bad PR hit at the time and Tom wanted AB, lobbied for him on Twitter.

He then pouted after the team let AB go despite the team being undefeated at that point. Sanu was to appease Tom. Both moves were bad moves in hindsight... now you Brady honks are trying to lump it all on Bill's plate and excusing Tom's complicity in that sht show. BB had to put Sanu in punt return because he had to bench Gunner in order to fit him on the roster. Mistakes all around, I'm not the one being blatantly biased in assigning blame... that would be the TB12 zealots here.

You will never change anyone’s mind here with facts…so why bother? Unless you enjoy it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who said BB didn't want to re-sign Tom? That was a decision made after 2019 had long ended and Tom was the one who decided to leave... it's literally the "free" in free agent. According to him he decided to leave the year prior... his own words from his Howard Stern interview.

Tom wanted vet WR's. BB got him AB and then Sanu when AB exploded in their face... which everyone including Kraft knew was a possibility... which is why Bob had Tom take some accountability the moment AB was acquired by saying Tom signed off on it. Bob couldn't handle another bad PR hit at the time and Tom wanted AB, lobbied for him on Twitter.

He then pouted after the team let AB go despite the team being undefeated at that point. Sanu was to appease Tom. Both moves were bad moves in hindsight... now you Brady honks are trying to lump it all on Bill's plate and excusing Tom's complicity in that sht show. BB had to put Sanu in punt return because he had to bench Gunner in order to fit him on the roster. Mistakes all around, I'm not the one being blatantly biased in assigning blame... that would be the TB12 zealots here.

You'll have to show me that clip on Howard Stern, but I remember him saying he knew 2019 was his last year when they didn't extend his contract. You don't let a QB go to FA unless you don't want him.

Trading for Sanu wasn't the problem. Trading a 2nd round pick for him was. The 49ers and the Pats were the only teams competing for Sanu. But after Dimetroff told the 49ers he wanted a 2nd, even Shanahan who coached Sanu, wasn't going to touch that and backed out. They then turned their attention to Emmanuel Sanders while Bill was still under the impression he was still competing with Kyle Shanahan. Bill unfortunately got taken to the cleaners by a guy who was about to get fired. And by the way, Emmanuel Sanders was the Pats first choice, but they couldn't fit him under the cap....which is another story.

I seem to get lumped into the "Brady honks", but I've explained many times before Brady has had a ton of on-field blunders.

 

[DaBruinz]

--------------------
Mystery WR....Lafell? Caldwell? someone else?
drawing a blank

Brandon Lloyd.

 

[DaBruinz]

Truly a remarkable DaBruinz post.
Most of us agree Bill deserves significant latitude given his track record from '01-'19 , but........Total Absolution for all failures is beyond absurd

Greats are great until they're not
Even Fonzi jumped the shark

What absoution? What part of saying 1 in 7 isn't good is "Total Absolution"?

I honestly believe Belichick put too much faith in McDaniels opinion when it came to picking WRs after Branch/Givens. Jackson, Price, Dobson and Harry. I had hoped that after the debacles with Jackson and Maroney. We know that the pick of Jackson is what led to a rift between BB and Daboll.

I put ZERO faith in the validity of Albert Breer's reporting. He's been a hack since he left the Patriots beat. I don't remember him ever breaking anything about the Patriots since he left.

 

[Zuma]

Lazar has WR positions as:

X: Parker/Agholor/Thornton
Z: Bourne
Slot: Meyers

This implies Agholor would have reduced snaps. The rook could be red shirted for all we know, based on playbook + strength development.

I like this but I prefer...

X: Parker/Agholor/Thornton
Z: Meyers
Slot: Bourne

I agree with X but I much prefer Meyers at Z. I think his chemistry is good enough with Mac in a similar Brandon Lloyd role ...regardless about YAC (just move the chains man). And this opens up Bourne in the slot who I think would be the best in the league by far in his 2nd year with the team. IMO Bourne will absolutley destroy in the slot which in many cases is more important then production at Z. Having a much upgraded X will open things up for everyone...of course. And with Mac still new...having Bourne in the slot is more important then having Meyers there. And (this is my 3rd "And" to start a sentence...I've reached my quota)...Bourne is more shifty and quick.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is the kind of mental gymnastics that only die hard BB sophist defenders do on a daily basis to justify his failings as a GM. Nobody forced BB to trade for Sanu, who was damaged goods.

In fact if BB was going to trade for a WR that year, Golden Tate would have been a much better choice for 1 year. And this also ignores the fact that BB didn't even need to go out and get another WR if he hadn't gotten rid of Demaryius Thomas for nothing at the end of training camp that year.

Not to mention his all-time FAIL selection of N'Keal Harry in the 1st round of 2019 CREATED the shortages at WR in the first place.



BB FAILED the organization with bad drafting and bad roster management at WR. It wasn't Brady's fault that he was given no weapons to work with. In fact BB's refusal to keep on Danny Amendola the year before helped create the bad WR situation in 2019.

Yet somehow BB comes out without a single iota of blame because he walks on water and never makes mistakes, right? And get off it about Meyers. He's a decent slot WR but not some GENIUS talent who was held back by Brady. LMAO. Are you going to blame Harry's failures on Brady too? If so you're also going to need to blame Cam Newton and Mac Jones for 'holding him back'. *rolls eyes*

The revisionist history by you is Amazing , VJC. You don't seem to remember who the OTHER WRs in front of Thomas were that year.
Edelman, Dorsett, Gordon, with Meyers and Olszewski as rookies. Harry started the year on IR. . Olszewski was given punt return duties to help a battered Edelman. If anything, the Pats chose DORSETT and MEYERS over Thomas.

How did Harry being on the IR created a "shortage of WR" when they also brought in Antonio Brown who proceeded to last 1 game before doing stupid sh*t that he was specifically told not to do. Losing Brown, then Gordon screwing up were much bigger factors to the shortage at WR than the selection of Harry.

 

[DaBruinz]

Absurdly trading a 2nd for a player like Sanu when BB knew he didn't want to re-sign TB is on him. But before you say they were "all in", trading for Sanu was not going to come close of saving that 2019 season. He was a #2 on a good day, but mostly has been the #3 option at WR during his career.

Also, Bill laughably asking Sanu to return a punt he's done once in his career when they were desperate at WR and where he lacks agility was one of Bill's most idiotic coaching moves.

He also averaged a pedestrian 8.1 yards per reception. See above regarding his ankle. Sanu told SI that he should've shut it down after the ankle injury, but felt immense pressure from the Patriots giving up a 2nd round pick for him.

More revisionist history. BB gave Brady a 1 year offer. Brady wanted a 3 year deal. Neither side would budge. Saying that BB knew he wasn't going to re-sign Brady is complete BS and shows you can't even be bothered to read the Patriots beat reporters.

Sanu was on the HANDS team for Atlanta and for the Bengals before that. That's why BB asked him to return punts after both Edelman and Olszewski went down. And,. like VJC, you ignore the fact that Gordon and Brown shot their way out of town.. So, how are THEIR actions on BB? How are Edelman's and Olszewski's injuries on BB? Who would YOU have put out there? Neither White nor Bolden had ever returned punts. Patrick Chung? Who had all of 3 in his career?