So how do you grade this year’s draft?

[crawhammer]

Rnd Player Pick Pos College/Univ - Thumbs up
3 Marcus Jones 85 CB Houston

In 1998 Allen Rossum was drafted in the third round by the Eagles, his consistency led him to #2 all-time in kick return yards, tied for 3rd all-time in kick return TD’s, 10th all-time in punt return yards and tied for 9th all-time in punt return TD’s. He is the only player in NFL history to have a kickoff return for a touchdown with five different teams… he was also tiny and played a little slot CB.

This is a player I thought of when trying to pin down Marcus Jones. But watching Jones offensive highlights, he looks like Tyreek Hill. He didn’t work out, but obviously he’s a next level athlete based on stats and film alone. You can’t fake that kind of production, or fake looking that much faster than everyone else on the tv screen. I’d love to know how the Pats use him if Jon Jones returns healthy and looks like his old self. They may try to use this kid in the slot offensively and craft some Tyreek-like plays just the get the ball in his hands.

I like this pick as well but if the Patriots drafted this guy with any notion of converting him to a slot receiver then count me out. How about just drafting an actual receiver who can lineup in the slot? They could have taken Skyy Moore in the 2nd round. Moore would have been a better fit for our offense than Thornton and likely Moore would have had more snaps/targets. The Bills snatched up Khalil Shakir in the 5th round... he'll get some run even in that stacked offense. I'm pretty sure the Patriots drafted Jones exclusively as a DB and return specialist. If you wanted Tyreek Hill then you should have traded up for Jameson Williams in the 1st round or John Metchie in the 2nd.

Rnd Player Pick Pos College/Univ - Thumbs up
4 Bailey Zappe 137 QB Western Kentucky

After the Jack Jones pick, I needed a crisis manager to talk me off the Tobin ledge. The Pierre Strong pick was the one, but it was followed soon after by the Zappe pick. What does Zappe have wrong with him that dropped him to the 4th in a “QB weak” draft? Being a short (6’.05”) and a small school prospect is enough to sink you… even in a weak draft for QB’s.

But what does Zappe have right with him… everything else. He was to the FBS what Mac Jones was in 2020 for Alabama, he led the nation in every meaningful stat… and by a lot. His single season passing ranking in 2021 for historical context: his 5967 yards is 1st all-time in NCAA history, his 62 TD’s is 1st all-time also, his 686 attempts 7th all-time… and look, we expect this type of production from an air raid offense but he completed 69.2% of his passes and he had the highest QB Rating of any rookie in the draft class. And while he may only be as tall as Drew Brees, Zappe also weighed 217 pounds… he’s stocky and muscular, not soft. He’s a smart kid who does the little things well and plays a cerebral game… like the current guy. I don’t think BB saw this kid and said “good back-up,” I think he saw this kid and said “good QB.” You don’t draft back-ups, you draft potential starters and competition determines pecking order. They got arguably the best QB available in this draft class in the 4th and it was a position of need.

Belichick drafted 10 QBs while Brady was the starter. None of them, except for Garoppolo, was drafted as a potential starter. 7 of the 10 weren't even good back-ups. Quite a few of them, if not all, were wasted picks because they did nothing to help the team win games. Mac Jones is the Patriots franchise quarterback for the next decade so Zappe has very little chance of ever making a significant contribution in a Patriots uniform. Also, despite all the gaudy numbers, where he lacks - height, release and arm strength - will probably limit his viability as an NFL caliber starting quarterback. I hate the pick. Should taken a player at a real position of need (of which they are many).

 

[crawhammer]

Wow, I knew some of the Bradyites had a chromosome missing but @crawhammer takes the cake…

What's your problem, bro? Are you trying to be completely detestable? You are in no position to be putting anyone on this forum down. You consistently hold the single most idiotic position here... essentially that Brady's highly overrated and merely a product of "the system." You can't reconcile your irrational hatred for Brady while also being satisfied with all of the success he brought to the team. It makes you miserable.

 

[Wozzy]

I like this pick as well but if the Patriots drafted this guy with any notion of converting him to a slot receiver then count me out. How about just drafting an actual receiver who can lineup in the slot? They could have taken Skyy Moore in the 2nd round. Moore would have been a better fit for our offense than Thornton and likely Moore would have had more snaps/targets. The Bills snatched up Khalil Shakir in the 5th round... he'll get some run even in that stacked offense. I'm pretty sure the Patriots drafted Jones exclusively as a DB and return specialist. If you wanted Tyreek Hill then you should have traded up for Jameson Williams in the 1st round or John Metchie in the 2nd.

Time will determine the success or failure of draft picks, not where Mel Kiper or Colon Cowturd had them ranked pre-draft.

Belichick drafted 10 QBs while Brady was the starter. None of them, except for Garoppolo, was drafted as a potential starter. 7 of the 10 weren't even good back-ups. Quite a few of them, if not all, were wasted picks because they did nothing to help the team win games. Mac Jones is the Patriots franchise quarterback for the next decade so Zappe has very little chance of ever making a significant contribution in a Patriots uniform. Also, despite all the gaudy numbers, where he lacks - height, release and arm strength - will probably limit his viability as an NFL caliber starting quarterback. I hate the pick. Should taken a player at a real position of need (of which they are many).

The Patriots should play with no backup QB… sounds logical. JimmyG, Cassel and Hoyer worked out, the others not so much. Pretty much explains the crapshoot nature of the draft. the average career lasts three years. The Pats are nearly at 90 players, their needs aren’t so big. The way you speak about the last twenty years of the dynasty it sounds like they were abject failures. Nobody has more championships and playoff wins… but BB did a terrible job. Sounds legit…

Take your meds.

 

[rochrist]

Time will determine the success or failure of draft picks, not where Mel Kiper or Colon Cowturd had them ranked pre-draft.

The Patriots should play with no backup QB… sounds logical. JimmyG, Cassel and Hoyer worked out, the others not so much. Pretty much explains the crapshoot nature of the draft. the average career lasts three years. The Pats are nearly at 90 players, their needs aren’t so big. The way you speak about the last twenty years of the dynasty it sounds like they were abject failures. Nobody has more championships and playoff wins… but BB did a terrible job. Sounds legit…

Take your meds.

He;s also conveniently ignoring Matt Cassel. While 11-5 did not make the playoffs that year because of a failed tiebreak, it was a damn fine showing from a guy who hadn't started a football game since High School. It's always good business to have another QB developing in the pipeline.

 

[crawhammer]

Time will determine the success or failure of draft picks, not where Mel Kiper or Colon Cowturd had them ranked pre-draft.

You're stating the obvious. However, the collective evaluation of these players, and their projected draft location, should weigh on the decision of when to take a particular player. The Patriots first two selections are obvious examples. Both possibly could have been taken much lower than where they were taken by the Patriots. It's not necessarily the best use of draft capital. Based on your description of Strange, he should have gone inside the overall top 10. I hope your evaluation is accurate (even by 75%).

However, can you see where the Patriots may have acted hastily in trading up for Thornton? By most accounts he wasn't getting drafted in that area of the draft. It's also highly unlikely that he'll be demonstratively better than Pickens, Pierce or Moore who all were still on the board. Of the group I like Moore the best and either way one of the four was going to be there at #54 (where KC took Moore). And they still would have had their other 2nd round pick. I think they really botched the 2nd round.

The Patriots should play with no backup QB… sounds logical. JimmyG, Cassel and Hoyer worked out, the others not so much. Pretty much explains the crapshoot nature of the draft. the average career lasts three years. The Pats are nearly at 90 players, their needs aren’t so big. The way you speak about the last twenty years of the dynasty it sounds like they were abject failures. Nobody has more championships and playoff wins… but BB did a terrible job. Sounds legit…

Come on, obviously no one is saying Belichick did a terrible job for 20 years. But Christ someone has got to take some heat for Jordan Richard, Duke Dawson and Joejuan Williams... there are some pretty obvious f*ckups in there. Whereas how many draft picks have blown your socks off over the past decade?

Regarding the QBs, you didn't win anything with JG, Cassel or Hoyer. Obviously you need a backup but if your main guy goes down then usually you're screwed. I don't know much about Zappe firsthand but the scouting reports don't characterize him as an NFL caliber starting quarterback, which is fine, because he's not going to be anything more than a backup in New England... it doesn't justify the 4th round pick though imo.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Normally I would say we have to wait a couple of seasons to grade it, but since Jermaine Wiggins have it a D- I will give it an A.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Bills fans laughing at us. For good cause.



Now consider what the Chiefs did to revamp their defense. They were serious.

I still don’t think the Bills will be doing much punting against us.

The draft was a dreadful mess with a couple of bright red apples like Marcus Jones and Andrew Steuber.

It’s understandable that Bill’s fans are laughing at the Patriots, when you have won as much as they have then laughing at a franchise that has never achieved anything is easy.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You're stating the obvious. However, the collective evaluation of these players, and their projected draft location, should weigh on the decision of when to take a particular player. The Patriots first two selections are obvious examples. Both possibly could have been taken much lower than where they were taken by the Patriots. It's not necessarily the best use of draft capital. Based on your description of Strange, he should have gone inside the overall top 10. I hope your evaluation is accurate (even by 75%).

However, can you see where the Patriots may have acted hastily in trading up for Thornton? By most accounts he wasn't getting drafted in that area of the draft. It's also highly unlikely that he'll be demonstratively better than Pickens, Pierce or Moore who all were still on the board. Of the group I like Moore the best and either way one of the four was going to be there at #54 (where KC took Moore). And they still would have had their other 2nd round pick. I think they really botched the 2nd round.


Come on, obviously no one is saying Belichick did a terrible job for 20 years. But Christ someone has got to take some heat for Jordan Richard, Duke Dawson and Joejuan Williams... there are some pretty obvious f*ckups in there. Whereas how many draft picks have blown your socks off over the past decade?

Regarding the QBs, you didn't win anything with JG, Cassel or Hoyer. Obviously you need a backup but if your main guy goes down then usually you're screwed. I don't know much about Zappe firsthand but the scouting reports don't characterize him as an NFL caliber starting quarterback, which is fine, because he's not going to be anything more than a backup in New England... it doesn't justify the 4th round pick though imo.

Yeah, other than the 75%+ winning percentage, 9 AFC Championships, and 6 Lombardi’s someone has to take the heat for drafting Duke Dawson. All the other teams in the league did much better than that and they never drafted Duke Dawson. You f.cking homers are pathetic, you think Belichick should get a pass just because he ran the most successful dynasty in NFL history, and then give him a pass on drafting Duke Dawson. F.cking pink hat homer b.tches.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The irony here is that Belichick has been knocked for years for going for character qualities over athletic qualities, and this year was a sea change where they did the opposite and drafted largely for athletic abilities. And the only standard the critics are using is “ consensus draftniks,” a group of people who basically just parrot each other rankings, mocks, and takes. None of these people have ever actually put a team together, and none have ever won a championship by building a team. Do some do the work and have some relevant takes, sure, but that doesn’t mean that they know more than the teams making the picks. And year after year after year….for as long as I can remember they give out high grades to teams that follow their rankings, and proclaim them “ the winners of the off-season,” and then they go on to do jack sh.t and pick a bunch more of their high picks the following draft, and the one after that…,..,and win more off-seasons.

Drafts are graded on what the players become, not what talking heads say about them, and that can’t be done before they ever play a down.

 

[Pats2000]

They scouted the player because they had no chance to get him at 104?? You obviously don't realize how dumb that sounds. You think because the Patriots reached for the player in the 1st round that the Rams concluded their player evaluation was wildly wrong? The Rams had Strange valued at 104... their evaluation of the player doesn't change because some other team obviously overvalued the player. Seriously, get a clue.

Evaluation isn't just based on the player athleticism and play, it's also based on team need. They are going to rank players they don't need lower.

 

[Pats2000]

What you're writing is making little sense. You say we don't know where Strange was on the Rams draft board but you also claim they thought he would be available at 104. If the latter is true, which I agree, then we know the Rams had Strange at 104 or lower on their draft board. It's not complicated. Hence why they thought it was so comical that another team would take him so early.


Giardi during an appearance on the NFL Network:

"I've talked to plenty of people around the league who think Cole Strange is gonna be a very good football player in this league. No one I talked to believed he was a first-rounder."

By the way here's what Giardi said about Tyquan Thornton:
"Tyquan Thornton believed maybe to be a fourth or fifth-rounder." Yikes. This pick is getting blasted more than Strange. Just a bizarre pick especially considering that they traded up to get him when there obviously was no need for any urgency It's hard to believe they could whiff so badly on yet another WR in the draft... hopefully Thornton can break the trend but there are a lot of doubters already.


Specific to the Patriots, here's the problem with taking a G in the 1st round... it wasn't an area of need heading into the offseason. They created the need by trading away Mason and not resigning Karras. Just spinning their wheels. The QB and RBs drafted also not addressing areas of need. And taking a WR in the 2nd round who doesn't look like he'll be anymore than 4th or 5th on the depth chart. We'll see about the CBs, although I like the added kick returning ability of Marcus Jones. Overall I don't see a draft class for the Patriots that's going to make them any better from last season. By contrast the Bills and Jets both seemed to have definitely improved their teams through the draft (after both having had productive free agencies).

Every year the Jets win the draft, Every year the Jets suck. The Jets didn't win anything. The Pats got speed on offense to compete with the track meet teams like the Bills and Chiefs.

The fact is that defense is becoming less effective with the new rules. They did get faster on defense with free agency regardless. So let's see, the free agency guys are just as much a question mark as any draft picks. We won't know anything until game 4 or 5 of the season.

 

[Pats2000]

Obviously I don't think every team follows the same draft board... the Patriots draft board for example was apparently way different than most... hence the criticism for their first two picks especially. You're just getting completely ridiculous now... "Strange could have been 10th on the Rams draft board"... yeah ok, that's why they were considering his probable availability at 104. Get real.


There were probably at least 30 better players available at #29. Either way it was too early for Strange. They should have stayed at #21 and taken McDuffie or Elam.


Yes, and why wouldn't I? Belichick doesn't have a great track record as a GM. I don't want to open that can of worms but collectively his drafts have been subpar. As for your rationalizing the changes at G, I can see letting Karras go if they felt they would have had to significantly overpay him to stay, but the Mason trade makes no sense. Adding Strange to the equation doesn't make them better at the position than they were a season ago.


Do I think Pickens, Pierce and Moore will be better NFL receivers than Thornton? Yes.

I would have been much happier if they had traded up to get Metchie like the Texans. Trading up for Thornton, who assuredly would have been available at least through the 2nd round, made no sense. The guy's a toothpick... 6'3" maybe 180. Pickens and Pierce are the same height with much better size. Either one of them would have made sense or even Skyy Moore.


Right, Stidham sucks, he's a backup, where he belongs. If backup is where Zappe belongs then he wasn't worth the 4th round pick. I much prefer a player there who may actually help the team during games that count.

Have you watched any film on Thornton at all? Dude does everything right, he fights for the ball, has good body control, has elite speed, catches the ball with his hands and not his body, runs routes well even in a system with a reduced route tree and adjusted to the ball well when his QB under threw him. He's looking like a steal in the draft on film

 

[SHOWTIME15]

 

[upstater1]

The crazy thing abut all this analysis is the cap. With the way it's moving and with the premium paid at certain positions, there's always the possibility that Belichick is gaming things to maximize his cap sitaution.

Consider that people look at the Chiefs taking McDuffie or Karlaftis or even Skyy Moore. But then also note that Andy Reid got Mahomes killed in last year's Super Bowl, so he ran out and signed Thuney to a huge $80m contract. If you're paying that much to an interior lineman, what's happening for you in free agency?

Are you trading away Tyreek Hill because you can't pay him?

What if Reid had drafted a Strange / Thuney type player in a previous year? He would've been able to afford to keep Tyreek Hill. I just looked at the Chiefs draft history, and in the 5 years prior to the Bucs v. Chiefs Super Bowl, the Chiefs had taken only two IOL in the draft, 4th rounder Parker Ehringer and 7th rounder, Nick Allegretti.

The Patriots meanwhile since 2014 drafted Jon Halapio, Cameron Fleming, Bryan Stork, Shaq Mason, Tre Jackson, Ted Karras, Joe Thuney, Hjalte Froholdt, Dustin Woodard, Mike Onwenu, William Sherman, Chasen Hines, Cole Strange. 13 in 9 years! This doesn't even count UDFAs like David Andrews and the guys we bring in every year.

This is the unfathomable and unknowable part for fans, but I have high confidence that Belichick has thought all of this through.

I will be wrong if we don't make a huge splash in FA next March.

 

[Patsgofor4]

NFL execs unfiltered on Draft: Jets display urgency, Saints 'destroyed' value

Personnel people across the league think the Ravens are getting too much credit and Bill Belichick's Patriots are getting too much grief.

theathletic.com

​

New England Patriots​

Some laughed when the Patriots selected guard Cole Strange with the 29th pick, earlier than projected, but no one is laughing about the player New England landed.

“He has unbelievable feet, his angles and technique are flawless, and I think he would have a high second-round grade,” an evaluator said. “He can get a little stronger. The rest, he has already got. Just an excellent lineman in space. He is Joe Thuney-like and can become a great left guard with the feet to play center. New England now has power on the right side of its line and good feet on the left.”

An exec credited New England for trading back eight spots to 29 before selecting Strange. That was the Patriots’ acknowledgment that, despite their obvious affinity for the player, they were not going to take him too long before it was time. Another exec suggested it was harder to feel as strongly about prospects after a couple of pandemic-affected seasons where evaluations were not as seamless, there were more prospects and lots to sort through.

“Cole Strange is really symbolic of the way people viewed this draft,” an exec said. “It really was such an eye-of-the-beholder draft. ‘We are taking guys we like, we don’t care where people have them mocked, we don’t care if people think it’s a reach.’ In the past, I feel like teams were more like, ‘We like him, but we can get him later.'”

The Patriots pocketed a 2023 third-round pick that could be high in the order for letting Carolina move up to select quarterback Matt Corral. The Patriots then selected the next quarterback chosen in Bailey Zappe, whom some liked better than Corral anyway.

“New England traded down a lot and did a great job there, but then everyone is killing them for drafting Strange in the first round,” an exec said. “Yeah, I had him later also, but he might end up being fine.”

 

[Wozzy]

You're stating the obvious. However, the collective evaluation of these players, and their projected draft location, should weigh on the decision of when to take a particular player. The Patriots first two selections are obvious examples. Both possibly could have been taken much lower than where they were taken by the Patriots.

Projected by whom? Projected by a horde of media personalities whose only professional credentials is a degree in broadcast journalism… that’s it.

“They could have been taken lower” is you peering into an alternate universe and pretending to know where 31 other teams had players on their boards. Newsflash: 32 teams don’t have every player on their board… their boards look nothing like Mel Kipers who has every available player on there good and bad alike.

It's not necessarily the best use of draft capital. Based on your description of Strange, he should have gone inside the overall top 10. I hope your evaluation is accurate (even by 75%).

Thuney just got 80 million from KC, the Pats took his replacement and now have him on a cost controlled rookie contract for five years. It was a great use of draft capital assuming health.

However, can you see where the Patriots may have acted hastily in trading up for Thornton? By most accounts he wasn't getting drafted in that area of the draft. It's also highly unlikely that he'll be demonstratively better than Pickens, Pierce or Moore who all were still on the board. Of the group I like Moore the best and either way one of the four was going to be there at #54 (where KC took Moore). And they still would have had their other 2nd round pick. I think they really botched the 2nd round.

Time and production will answer this question. Two years from now if Thornton is one of the best WR’s from this draft class and the Pats just won their 7th ring you won’t be back here telling us how wrong you were… nope, you’ll be here telling us how Bill was lucky Mac fell to him at 15 and carried him and the entire team to a championship because “QB’s are magic.”

Come on, obviously no one is saying Belichick did a terrible job for 20 years. But Christ someone has got to take some heat for Jordan Richard, Duke Dawson and Joejuan Williams... there are some pretty obvious f*ckups in there. Whereas how many draft picks have blown your socks off over the past decade?

Look at the Chiefs, Steelers, Packers… 2/3rds of their draft picks don’t work out… only you’re not here to talk about them. The average NFL career lasts 3 years, the attrition rate for rookies is absurdly high… that’s the draft… that’s the NFL. It’s really really hard. Hard to be good, hard to stay healthy after playing a decades worth of organized football in college and high school. If a team walks away from a draft with a few contributors it was a good draft.

Regarding the QBs, you didn't win anything with JG, Cassel or Hoyer. Obviously you need a backup but if your main guy goes down then usually you're screwed. I don't know much about Zappe firsthand but the scouting reports don't characterize him as an NFL caliber starting quarterback, which is fine, because he's not going to be anything more than a backup in New England... it doesn't justify the 4th round pick though imo.

Correction… JImmy went to a Super Bowl, Cassel won double digit games and went to a pro bowl. If Nick Foles, Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl so could those others. Teams win Super Bowls… not magical QB’s. That’s just fanboy nonsense. Joe Gibbs won three different rings with three different average journeyman QB’s… it doesn’t require a unicorn.

Zappe was knocked down on the draft chart because he’s 6 feet tall and played at a smaller conference. The same conference as Patrick Mahomes and he’s the same height as Drew Brees and taller by almost two inches than Russell Wilson. Stidham is done, Hoyer is a coach… they needed another QB. It was a good value pick.

 

[BTTA]

The crazy thing abut all this analysis is the cap. With the way it's moving and with the premium paid at certain positions, there's always the possibility that Belichick is gaming things to maximize his cap sitaution.

Consider that people look at the Chiefs taking McDuffie or Karlaftis or even Skyy Moore. But then also note that Andy Reid got Mahomes killed in last year's Super Bowl, so he ran out and signed Thuney to a huge $80m contract. If you're paying that much to an interior lineman, what's happening for you in free agency?

Are you trading away Tyreek Hill because you can't pay him?

What if Reid had drafted a Strange / Thuney type player in a previous year? He would've been able to afford to keep Tyreek Hill. I just looked at the Chiefs draft history, and in the 5 years prior to the Bucs v. Chiefs Super Bowl, the Chiefs had taken only two IOL in the draft, 4th rounder Parker Ehringer and 7th rounder, Nick Allegretti.

The Patriots meanwhile since 2014 drafted Jon Halapio, Cameron Fleming, Bryan Stork, Shaq Mason, Tre Jackson, Ted Karras, Joe Thuney, Hjalte Froholdt, Dustin Woodard, Mike Onwenu, William Sherman, Chasen Hines, Cole Strange. 13 in 9 years! This doesn't even count UDFAs like David Andrews and the guys we bring in every year.

This is the unfathomable and unknowable part for fans, but I have high confidence that Belichick has thought all of this through.

I will be wrong if we don't make a huge splash in FA next March.

If I could give out multiple "winner" likes, I would do it for this post.

 

[BTTA]

The irony here is that Belichick has been knocked for years for going for character qualities over athletic qualities, and this year was a sea change where they did the opposite and drafted largely for athletic abilities. And the only standard the critics are using is “ consensus draftniks,” a group of people who basically just parrot each other rankings, mocks, and takes. None of these people have ever actually put a team together, and none have ever won a championship by building a team. Do some do the work and have some relevant takes, sure, but that doesn’t mean that they know more than the teams making the picks. And year after year after year….for as long as I can remember they give out high grades to teams that follow their rankings, and proclaim them “ the winners of the off-season,” and then they go on to do jack sh.t and pick a bunch more of their high picks the following draft, and the one after that…,..,and win more off-seasons.

Drafts are graded on what the players become, not what talking heads say about them, and that can’t be done before they ever play a down.

Great post, AND from what I've read post draft, the Pats draft is getting both athletic and character qualities in these guys.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

...the collective evaluation of these players and their projected draft location should weigh on the decision of when to take a particular player... Both possibly could have been taken much lower than where they were taken by the Patriots...

... can you see where the Patriots may have acted hastily in trading up for Thornton? By most accounts he wasn't getting drafted in that area of the draft. It's also highly unlikely that he'll be demonstratively better than Pickens, Pierce or Moore who all were still on the board. Of the group I like Moore the best and either way one of the four was going to be there at #54 (where KC took Moore). And they still would have had their other 2nd round pick. I think they really botched the 2nd round.

On your first comment, that's the gist of this discussion, the idea they could have been taken "much lower". You're losing more ground every day with this claim, as more and more sources from other teams say that Strange had a 2nd round grade, and Thornton did too.

On your second comment:
- first: all we gave up to jump to #50 was a 5th rounder, which was a very good value for a mid-2nd round move, plus at that point we were playing with house money having gotten a 3rd and 4th earlier from KC. I don't know what you mean about "still would have had their other 2nd round pick" - all we had to start with was #54, and we traded away #183 or something to jump up to #50.
- second: Thornton belongs in the discussion with Pickens-Pierce-Moore. If our brain trust preferred him, which I can see why after looking at video and hearing comments from other sources this week, then they did the right thing to make the move and make this pick. It's not controversial, it only proves that the talking heads were wrong.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

i seem to remember the Pats getting roasted when they picked another guard in the 1st round...that it was way too early...that the player would have been available in the 2nd or later. But the Pats picked Logan Mankins with the 32nd pick in the first round in 2005. The Pats thought Mankins would be gone when they picked again. He ended up going to multiple pro bowls and was an All Pro.