Groh not Wolf led the 2021 draft

[RobertWeathers]

Common sense (or edict from above) to hand the draft keys over to less entrenched draft decision makers

Using Groh's draft board

Boiler plate drivel espoused by Team Bill ****s

(Note: Currently a card-carrying Team Bill founding member)

Based on fact. Feel free to keep *****ing about draft pick misses which took place while they won multiple Super Bowls.

 

[borg]

Belichick DOES trade up.

With an impressive whiff rate during his half decade slump

10 of those (trade ups) have come the last four years: Uche, Asiasi, Keene, Onwenu, cornerback Joejuan Williams (second round, 2019), defensive lineman Byron Cowart (fifth round, 2019), punter Jake Bailey (fifth round, 2019), cornerback Duke Dawson (second round, 2018), offensive tackle Antonio Garcia (third round, 2017) and offensive tackle Conor McDermott (sixth round, 2017).

Props to Bill for nailing his special teams swoop

Not the six pick mega deals that get you from 27 to 10, but he trades up a few spots in the first or second fairly often. He did it TWICE the year they drafted Hightower and Chandler Jones.

Reliving Bill's Golden Oldies can be very nostalgic

Patriots Draft Trades: Lessons From Bill Belichick's Trading History

Since taking over the New England Patriots in 2000, Bill Belichick has executed an NFL-high 82 draft-day trades. Let's break them down.

nesn.com

 

[Sicilian]

With an impressive whiff rate during his half decade slump

10 of those (trade ups) have come the last four years: Uche, Asiasi, Keene, Onwenu, cornerback Joejuan Williams (second round, 2019), defensive lineman Byron Cowart (fifth round, 2019), punter Jake Bailey (fifth round, 2019), cornerback Duke Dawson (second round, 2018), offensive tackle Antonio Garcia (third round, 2017) and offensive tackle Conor McDermott (sixth round, 2017).

Props to Bill for nailing his special teams swoop


Reliving Bill's Golden Oldies can be very nostalgic

Patriots Draft Trades: Lessons From Bill Belichick's Trading History

Since taking over the New England Patriots in 2000, Bill Belichick has executed an NFL-high 82 draft-day trades. Let's break them down.

nesn.com

You said Bill doesn't trade up because of "pride". It's been shown he does trade up. The efficacy of those trade ups is irrelevant. The fact is you made something up, assigned an arbitrary reason for that made up premise, and now are moving the goalposts.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The #1 reason why their drafts were perceived as sub-par.

When teams always go deep in the playoffs, they typically pick in the bottom of drafts and the %s of landing starting -caliber players lessens.

Ironic how the year after they go 7-9 they have a solid draft

I'm just glad the Pats didn't tank (that we know of... maybe starting a severely injured Cam over Stidham was tanking? I keed), and they still did well in the draft. Sure, they sucked at the end, but there were a lot of critical injuries that people conveniently forget, and they still played hard (except for wilting in the Miami heat in Dec/Jan per usual).

 

[Ring 6]

Based on fact. Feel free to keep *****ing about draft pick misses which took place while they won multiple Super Bowls.

From 2001 to 2018 the patriots were 220-68 in the regular season. 30-10 in the post season. Won the division 16 times. Went to 13 of the 18 AFCCGs 9 of the 18 SBs and won 6 of the 18.
Yet the “fans” that benefitted from that are pushing each other out the way to line up and complain about the way the man who ran that does business.

It’s like the cashier from Walmart who became a millionaire in their Walmart stock owning 401k, talking about what a moron Sam Walton was.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm just glad the Pats didn't tank (that we know of... maybe starting a severely injured Cam over Stidham was tanking? I keed), and they still did well in the draft. Sure, they sucked at the end, but there were a lot of critical injuries that people conveniently forget, and they still played hard (except for wilting in the Miami heat in Dec/Jan per usual).

There is no way you can look objectively at the 2021 patriots and not realize, changes notwithstanding, they are a team on the rise.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm just glad the Pats didn't tank (that we know of... maybe starting a severely injured Cam over Stidham was tanking? I keed), and they still did well in the draft. Sure, they sucked at the end, but there were a lot of critical injuries that people conveniently forget, and they still played hard (except for wilting in the Miami heat in Dec/Jan per usual).

Yep.

BB admitted 2020 was a cap re-set year. Could the have done a little more spending and some cap finagling? Sure.

Is that tanking? Nope.

 

[Hyped]

I suspect that BB or McDaniel overruled the scouts in 2019, with, obviously, disastrous results, and I suspect that Kraft stepped in for 2021 and told BB to listen to the scouts this time....but obviously this is total speculation on my part without a shred of evidence.....and I guess this means that BB will not be offering that job as WR scout, so sad, I think I am going to cry.

All we know is that something changed in 2021. What it was, I cannot say, but I suspect that Kraft put his foot down...maybe...

No chance that happened. Kraft did that back in 1996 and we lost a HOF coach thereafter. Since then, Kraft has been hands off except for when Carroll went from 10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8…..

 

[Jim Beankie]

There is no way you can look objectively at the 2021 patriots and not realize, changes notwithstanding, they are a team on the rise.

Sorry for the lack of clarity - the suckage referred to the end of the 2020 season (leading to the good draft) not last year.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry for the lack of clarity - the suckage referred to the end of the 2020 season (leading to the good draft) not last year.

We had about the 50th best Qb in the league starting. Suckage was certain.

 

[Kasmir]

No chance that happened. Kraft did that back in 1996 and we lost a HOF coach thereafter. Since then, Kraft has been hands off except for when Carroll went from 10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8…..

Yep. I suspect BB would demand immediate release from his contract if Kraft tried to meddle like that.

 

[captain stone]

Here's hoping Perkins and McGrone add to the value of that draft class

Yeah like that's gonna happen...

 

[captain stone]

I'm just glad the Pats didn't tank (that we know of... maybe starting a severely injured Cam over Stidham was tanking? I keed), and they still did well in the draft. Sure, they sucked at the end, but there were a lot of critical injuries that people conveniently forget, and they still played hard (except for wilting in the Miami heat in Dec/Jan per usual).

They should have, beginning with trading Gilmour at the deadline when the season was Already lost... Betcha they would've received offers a dam sight better than the one for which Bill settled a year later...

 

[captain stone]

There is no way you can look objectively at the 2021 patriots and not realize, changes notwithstanding, they are a team on the rise.

Compared to 10 other AFC teams, sure you can.

 

[captain stone]

No chance that happened. Kraft did that back in 1996 and we lost a HOF coach thereafter. Since then, Kraft has been hands off except for when Carroll went from 10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8…..

"... to a last-place schedule..."

Yeah I also still remember that line when he announced the firing of Mr Pumped & Jacked...Too bad he didn't make a public announcement of Booby Grier's firing at the same time, since he was the one more responsible for the team's decline than Carroll was.

 

[PScottman]

When teams always go deep in the playoffs, they typically pick in the bottom of drafts and the %s of landing starting -caliber players lessens.

Succinctly accurate.

 

[Hyped]

"... to a last-place schedule..."

Yeah I also still remember that line when he announced the firing of Mr Pumped & Jacked...Too bad he didn't make a public announcement of Booby Grier's firing at the same time, since he was the one more responsible for the team's decline than Carroll was.

Yup, Grier was terrible....

And Ernie Zampese's timing route offense was terrible as well.....talk about putting a square peg into a hole with a QB like Bledsoe who should have gotten rid of the ball ASAP more often....

 

[zipster9]

Alabama prospects would be nice!

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Scouts provide reports on players. There is rarely ever a player that all scouts agree upon completely.
The decision makers weighs the opinions of the scouts and makes a decision.
The scout doesn’t make a pick and the decision maker “overrules it”.

Harry was almost unanimously viewed as a late 1 early 2.
...

To suggest that the patriots scouts told belichick Harry is a terrible pick and he said I don’t care I liked him in the interview, is exhibiting a severe lack of critical thinking skills.

No need for rude ad-hominem attacks on me. When you say "Harry was almost unanimously viewed as a late 1 early 2." you should qualify this by noting that he was viewed thus by the popular press and amateur draftnicks. I cannot see any professional scout as advocating Harry; they would not be employed for long. Even a dweeb such as me could see that the guy could not get open and had to depend on spectacular, contested catches. Someone, somewhere overruled the scouts; whether it was BB or McDaniels, we may never know. There was even a rumor that a scout quit in disgust after the draft, but I cannot verify that.

 

[Ring 6]

No need for rude ad-hominem attacks on me. When you say "Harry was almost unanimously viewed as a late 1 early 2." you should qualify this by noting that he was viewed thus by the popular press and amateur draftnicks. I cannot see any professional scout as advocating Harry; they would not be employed for long. Even a dweeb such as me could see that the guy could not get open and had to depend on spectacular, contested catches. Someone, somewhere overruled the scouts; whether it was BB or McDaniels, we may never know. There was even a rumor that a scout quit in disgust after the draft, but I cannot verify that.

Your response only shows why I stand behind the originally post
Having conversations that ignore the basic reality of how things work are pointless. Have a great day.