Report: Brady tried to push Belichick out for Bill O'Brien

[Huckleberry1]

Yes one cannot deny that pro-BB supporters have an agenda as well, to tarnish Brady’s contributions and burnish BB’s legacy. It’s not just pro-Brady crowd using every opportunity to critisize BB

I guess I must be missing the Belichick is the greatest, Brady sucks threads in this forum because I haven’t seen one. Could you pull some up to show me what I am missing?

 

[1960Pats]

He did say "one of". Pats over Rams was one shocking upset. Coaching played a huge role as Martz admitted he was stubborn doing what he wanted to do and found cracks in Bill's D too late in the game. He said when they ran the no huddle offense, that's when the Pats D cracked. Martz wishes he would've done that from the start.

Giants over Pats in 2007 still haunts me. 2011 not so much.

I'll never forget the 2011 SB. That was when I was late getting in my $100 bet at 1000-1 on a safety being the first score. That mistake cost me $100,000.00.

I'll also never forget the Pats insistence on playing into the Giants only strength, pass defense. The Giants weakness was run defense and we went pass-happy.

 

[1960Pats]

Not sure what being a season ticket holder has to do with it? I'm one too, then and now. The majority of what I posted was factual information so maybe your beef is with NFL statisticians.

The '96 and '97 Patriots seasons weren't that different. Won the division, lost in the postseason with a flurry of mistakes from Bledsoe. The offense got a little worse while the defense got a little better.

The Patriots defenses only got consistently good around 2003. From then until 2009 they only had one season where they weren't in the top 10 mix (2005). Some of the defenses from 2010 and beyond were bad but mostly inconsistent with a few exceptions (that 2014 defense in particular was probably better than the numbers showed).

However, from 1988 to 2002, the only Patriots defense to finish in the top10 in both scoring and yards was Carroll's '99 squad. That's just a fact. It's also true that in Carroll's last season the defense ranked 8th and in Belichick's first three seasons they ranked 20th, 24th & 23rd... those are all worse than 8th, correct?

Again, Carroll will not make the Mount Rushmore of NE head coaches, but he wasn't the worst either. He didn't fair well with his drafts for sure, although he did draft Kevin Faulk. I think people forget about all of the great Patriots drafted during the Parcells years: Curtis Martin, Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tedy Bruschi, Lawyer Milloy & Ty Law... all but Martin were significant contributors to the Patriots Dynasty 1.0.


Brady has 6 INTs and 3 FL in his 10 Super Bowl appearances but as opposed to simply looking that up you lie.

Brady has 421 pass attempts in the Super Bowl. Peyton Manning is second with 155. So that puts Brady 266 ahead of second. Despite that he's only t-4th for most INTs with 6. Elway has the most with 8 INTs. Brady's INT% in the SB is 1.4%, which is exceptional. Compared with HOFers Tarkenton (6.7%), Elway (5.3%), Staubach (4.1%), Kelly (4.8%), and Peyton Manning (3.2%). Right, Montana's INT% in the SB is 0.0, which is an outstanding accomplishment, but he also had 299 fewer pass attempts than Brady. I'll take the 1.4 INT% with the 3 additional rings.

I can still picture Drew dropping back to pass against GB in the SB and floating a pass to Shawn Jefferson that was at least 20 yards short for an easy pick. Between him and the lame-duck HC's insistence on kicking to Desmond Howard the Pats didn't stand a chance.

One of the problems for me with Tuna Crap is that he was vocal about not being able to buy the groceries yet takes credit for the players drafted. Can it be both ways?

I can't stand any of the Mannings and Montana is okay, but it's not their fault that they're not as good as Brady. No QB is.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady is the greatest player in NFL history, and he has 7 Rings to prove it. Like Belichick only a f*cking moron would try to tarnish his achievements.

I had a long argument with Bernard Pollard a few years ago when he tried to claim that Manning was the greatest QB of all time, and that Brady was just a product of Belichick’s system. He tried to play the “ I’m a player, so I know” card, but the evidence was so overwhelming that Brady was the GOAT that it was easy to knock his sh.tty arguments down. My favorite, however, was when he claimed that Brady could never do what Manning did, go elsewhere and win with another team. That aged well, even though it wasn’t necessary because Manning’s performance that season, and in those playoffs was as bad as it gets.

I think Bill is by far the best HC that I've seen and Brady is the best QB. Where the conflict comes for me is in my sincere belief (and has been from the beginning of time) that players win games, not coaches. I'll agree that coaching football is harder than coaching any other sport but it's still not harder than putting on the uniform and knocking heads with opponents.

If I had to rank the importance of the Patriots now it would be;
QB - 85%
HC- 14.999%
Owner - .001%

That hasn't changed much over the years but I used to award a bigger % to Bill and Bob than I do now.

 

[1960Pats]

Apparently, Brady didn't try to push out anyone.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Apparently, Brady didn't try to push out anyone.

This would be my guess as well. I think Beady felt unappreciated by Belichick, and rightly so, but I don’t believe he would try to get him fired and handpick his successor. Aaron Rodgers, that’s another story, but not Brady.

 

[BTTA]

How I see it: Belichick's foresight in recognizing Brady's leadership qualities, keeping him on the team as #4, and building a team that could win with Brady's limitations as a young and therefore limited QB in the first 5 year run were more about Belichick the coach than Brady the player.
It is entirely possible that if Belichick had been talked out of keeping Brady, he wouldn't have gotten a shot on another team at all, or if he had, not enough of a chance to show what he could do. Brady was indeed lucky there (which is not to reduce his contribution to his success at all - both are true).

The second great run, at the end of the last decade, was more about Brady the player in his prime, plus Belichick the GM getting talent within the cap limitations of a team with a highly paid QB plus absurd NFL persecution/prosecution. That five years was the most impressive in the history of the game.

5 AFC championship games
4 AFC championships (80%)
3 SB victories (75%)

These last three years have been about resetting the franchise, during COVID and post Brady. All good.

If any of us has expectations that the AFC championship should continue to run through New England like it did in the 2010's, that's masochism. The league will be all about "all in" for a year or two, then rebuild. Only Belichick/Brady could have beaten that pattern.

This is just absurd:

Jan. 20, 2019 New England Patriots Kansas City Chiefs 37-31
Jan. 21, 2018 New England Patriots Jacksonville Jaguars 24-20
Jan. 22, 2017 New England Patriots Pittsburgh Steelers 36-17
Jan. 24, 2016 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 20-18
Jan. 18, 2015 New England Patriots Indianapolis Colts 45-7
Jan. 19, 2014 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 26-16
Jan. 20, 2013 Baltimore Ravens New England Patriots 28-13
Jan. 22, 2012 New England Patriots Baltimore Ravens 23-20
Jan. 23, 2011 Pittsburgh Steelers New York Jets 24-19

Leave it to us to argue about why.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Question MahomestoKelce:

The Chiefs haven’t won a Super Bowl in *forevever *( fairweather fan time ), do Chiefs fans think that Reid and Mahomes suck, and Hunt should sell the team? Or are they just blind homers?

Chiefs fans don't think Mahomes and Reid suck. They acknowledge neither are perfect. But there's no QB/HC duo we would rather have right now.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

I respectfully disagree. I think the 2018 Patriots were the weakest of the 9 SB teams of the Brady/Belichick era - and yes I say that knowing full well they won the SB that year.

This could easily be its own thread. I can't agree with this, primarily because they went into KC and won, something that most thought couldn't be done (if I remember correctly they lost all their games on the road that year. ) I remember this entire board (including me) lamenting the Miami Miracle the morning of the AFC Championship. The Pats went to Arrowhead and scored plenty of points, then turned around and allowed 3 points to the Rams. That team could beat you in many different ways.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Chiefs fans don't think Mahomes and Reid suck. They acknowledge neither are perfect. But there's no QB/HC duo we would rather have right now.

Homers

2 years and no Lombardi. Reid should be fired and Mahomes obviously sucks.

And for any Rams fans out there you better go back to back or they suck as well.

 

[Huckleberry1]

How I see it: Belichick's foresight in recognizing Brady's leadership qualities, keeping him on the team as #4, and building a team that could win with Brady's limitations as a young and therefore limited QB in the first 5 year run were more about Belichick the coach than Brady the player.
It is entirely possible that if Belichick had been talked out of keeping Brady, he wouldn't have gotten a shot on another team at all, or if he had, not enough of a chance to show what he could do. Brady was indeed lucky there (which is not to reduce his contribution to his success at all - both are true).

The second great run, at the end of the last decade, was more about Brady the player in his prime, plus Belichick the GM getting talent within the cap limitations of a team with a highly paid QB plus absurd NFL persecution/prosecution. That five years was the most impressive in the history of the game.

5 AFC championship games
4 AFC championships (80%)
3 SB victories (75%)

These last three years have been about resetting the franchise, during COVID and post Brady. All good.

If any of us has expectations that the AFC championship should continue to run through New England like it did in the 2010's, that's masochism. The league will be all about "all in" for a year or two, then rebuild. Only Belichick/Brady could have beaten that pattern.

This is just absurd:

Jan. 20, 2019 New England Patriots Kansas City Chiefs 37-31
Jan. 21, 2018 New England Patriots Jacksonville Jaguars 24-20
Jan. 22, 2017 New England Patriots Pittsburgh Steelers 36-17
Jan. 24, 2016 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 20-18
Jan. 18, 2015 New England Patriots Indianapolis Colts 45-7
Jan. 19, 2014 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 26-16
Jan. 20, 2013 Baltimore Ravens New England Patriots 28-13
Jan. 22, 2012 New England Patriots Baltimore Ravens 23-20
Jan. 23, 2011 Pittsburgh Steelers New York Jets 24-19

Leave it to us to argue about why.

Homer

 

[venecol]

Eli to Manningham was the greatest throw and catch I have ever seen.

Hey, McDonald's fries are good. Remember when I ordered them from you yesterday at the Drive through? Next time a little bit more salt, please...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

 

[crawhammer]

Oh good, you admit you don't know what you're talking about and you admit you are oblivious to Carroll's absolute ineptitude as head coach of the NEP.

Well, if you want a serious answer... I highly doubt Bobby Grier was making draft/roster decisions without Carroll's input. You have insider information to the contrary then I'd like to see it. You say Carroll coached the team into the gutter (finishing 8-8 in 1999) then what do you call Belichick with basically the same roster finishing 5-11 in 2000? If we're being entirely honest here then no head coach was going to be truly successful with Drew Bledsoe. He pretty much quarterbacked the team into gutter in the '99 season. With a 6-2 record at the midway point, Bledsoe had 13 TDs and 4 INTs. They flipped their record in the second half, going 2-6, with Bledsoe throwing 6 TDs and 17 INTs. When your quarterback is a complete disaster, 8-8 is understandable. Belichick wasn't doing any better with Bledsoe, in fact it was a lot worse. Things didn't get on track until Mo Lewis happened and Tom Brady took over. Believe it.

 

[Joker]

Well, if you want a serious answer... I highly doubt Bobby Grier was making draft/roster decisions without Carroll's input. You have insider information to the contrary then I'd like to see it. You say Carroll coached the team into the gutter (finishing 8-8 in 1999) then what do you call Belichick with basically the same roster finishing 5-11 in 2000? If we're being entirely honest here then no head coach was going to be truly successful with Drew Bledsoe. He pretty much quarterbacked the team into gutter in the '99 season. With a 6-2 record at the midway point, Bledsoe had 13 TDs and 4 INTs. They flipped their record in the second half, going 2-6, with Bledsoe throwing 6 TDs and 17 INTs. When your quarterback is a complete disaster, 8-8 is understandable. Belichick wasn't doing any better with Bledsoe, in fact it was a lot worse. Things didn't get on track until Mo Lewis happened and Tom Brady took over. Believe it.

you're out in left field with this crap...and you're 100% WRONG about Grier not having total control. Here's some 411 you probably are unaware of...I had a PRESS PASS and wrote blogs and created 2 Patriots websites back in the 90's. I was THERE at Bryant during Carroll's camps and wrote about the declining discipline and disorganized state of the team. Read the Globe or Herald archives to get the RIGHT information about what the GM did and the coach.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Grier PERSONALLY set this team back, great draft orders, and HORRIBLE Picks.
He didn't make mistakes here and there, mostly just mistakes.

 

[Joker]

Grier PERSONALLY set this team back, great draft orders, and HORRIBLE Picks.
He didn't make mistakes here and there, mostly just mistakes.

He blew 29 of 31 picks over that span...including the abominable Chris Canty pick...krist

 

[1960Pats]

Chiefs fans don't think Mahomes and Reid suck. They acknowledge neither are perfect. But there's no QB/HC duo we would rather have right now.

Who would they rather lose, Mahomes or Reid?

 

[1960Pats]

If any of us has expectations that the AFC championship should continue to run through New England like it did in the 2010's, that's masochism. The league will be all about "all in" for a year or two, then rebuild. Only Belichick/Brady could have beaten that pattern.

This is just absurd:

Jan. 20, 2019 New England Patriots Kansas City Chiefs 37-31
Jan. 21, 2018 New England Patriots Jacksonville Jaguars 24-20
Jan. 22, 2017 New England Patriots Pittsburgh Steelers 36-17
Jan. 24, 2016 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 20-18
Jan. 18, 2015 New England Patriots Indianapolis Colts 45-7
Jan. 19, 2014 Denver Broncos New England Patriots 26-16
Jan. 20, 2013 Baltimore Ravens New England Patriots 28-13
Jan. 22, 2012 New England Patriots Baltimore Ravens 23-20
Jan. 23, 2011 Pittsburgh Steelers New York Jets 24-19

Leave it to us to argue about why.

Absurd, incredible, astounding and unbelievable all come to mind but don't do that run justice. There hasn't been a word invented that would describe it completely.

If anyone is having problems dealing with the Pats dropping back down to earth then they're spoiled. The Pats could finish in the cellar for 5 straight years and we'd still be way ahead of the game.

Btw, it's Brady/Belichick.

 

[1960Pats]

He blew 29 of 31 picks over that span...including the abominable Chris Canty pick...krist

Is Canty the guy who was doing a dance while a fumble was on the ground behind him?