Report: Brady tried to push Belichick out for Bill O'Brien

[crawhammer]

Really? Pete Carroll? You really gonna go there?

well, i guess thanks are in order for vividly illustrating why stupid people shouldn't use numbers...

Pete made a mess of the Pats in the three years he was here... From first to worst in three short years... the offense went into the tank, and the defense was holding on by its teeth...

Just presenting some facts. The team didn't drop-off much from 1996 to 1997... the biggest problem in both postseasons was the play of Bledsoe... in the two season-ending losses he had 6 INTs... it's hard to win with your quarterback making repeated horrible decisions.

From 1988 to 2002, the only Patriots defense to finish in the top-10 in both scoring and yards was Carroll's '99 squad. Carroll's last season the defense ranked 8th... Belichick's first three seasons... 20th, 24th & 23rd. The offense wasn't good during Carroll's last season but statistically it got worse under Belichick. I don't make up the numbers. The offense didn't get any good until Brady became the starter.

Not saying Carroll was a success in New England, because he wasn't, however (including postseason) he was 5 games over .500 preceding the Dynasty era. Since becoming the HC of NE, Belichick is 1 game below .500 without Brady, while with Brady the teams were good enough to win 17 division titles in 18 seasons. Seems like one could draw some conclusions from that.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He has more Superbowl MVPs than anyone else has Superbowls. Please stop. Mods? Seriously. If we want to restore the main forum to current events then he needs to stop trolling. He is the worst offender and these threads are poisoned with his taunting. He is begging begging for responses and attention.

Guess who is responding to everything I write?

 

[PatsWSB47]

Guess who is responding to everything I write?

Too many people. Its exactly what you want

 

[Guts]

Not the GOAT of the Super Bowl. He can't even beat one of the worst teams

Brady during Super Bowl 42:

Isn't it a Patsfans.com sin to post any pictures of that game?

 

[sb1]

All coaches no matter who they are need good teams and players to win. It's much easier with a great QB. Yes, even Bill needs a great QB to win titles.

The Patriots were a lousy team in 2020 and they missed the playoffs. They were an ok team in 2021 and the end result was just that..."ok". They were good-to-great every single year with Brady. Mostly of course because they had Brady.

Not rocket science.

 

[sb1]

Not the GOAT of the Super Bowl. He can't even beat one of the worst teams to ever field a team in the super bowl in the 2007 NYG.

Brady before Super Bowl 42:



Brady during Super Bowl 42:

I don't blame him for looking sour here. Loss was 100% on him, nobody else.

 

[Steve102]

I would rather be undefeated with 4+ rings because every quarterback who has lost a super bowl says it sucks.

Says a guy who's never set foot on a football field. This is the dumbest take ever. Of course you'd rather have 7 rings and 10 trips to the SB. Stop it.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Isn't it a Patsfans.com sin to post any pictures of that game?

He actually had it as his signiture. Worst troll ever.

 

[XLIX]

I would rather be undefeated with 4+ rings because every quarterback who has lost a super bowl says it sucks.

It is not "4+" it is 4 (only one QB has the plus).

Yes, I am sure losing a Super Bowl sucks. So does losing any playoff game. So does playing an entire season and not even making the playoffs. But hey, you think 4 championships is better than 7. Congratulations on making a phenomenally stupid statement, as per your usual routine.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady didn't give him anything. It was a collaborative effort between coach and QB. To say otherwise means you love Tommy more than you do NEP. Bill has to rebuild here in NE. He's got aging veterans that need to be replaced with younger players. That's going to take some time.

Just about every QB who wins a super bowl engineers "game winning drives"....that's what a QB is supposed to do. As far as the losses are concerned, you might want to watch the video of those games again:

SB 42 - Giants D gassed in the 4th quarter allowing Tommy to actually move the ball. In fact, Tommy had 27 seconds left and 3 TOs to get the ball only 40 yards or so for the game tying field goal. Instead, Tommy was taking deep shots to Moss???!!!!

SB 46 - Tommy's offense didn't score a single point after the opening drive of the 3rd quarter.

SB 52 - NE never led in the game

They had the lead in the 4th-quarter of SB 52 even with the defense getting embarrassed. They also had the lead with under a minute left in both SB losses to NYG.

How much time are you giving Belichick? Remember he's 70 so I don't think he's coaching more than 3-5 more seasons (or perhaps until he catches Shula). He infused the roster last offseason with unprecedented spending, he's got his new franchise quarterback, and he's got another draft right in front of him. So what does a successfully completed rebuild look like to you?

 

[Biffins]

Bb had rings before Brady. Next idiotic post?

We’re discussing as HC not a member. Ofcourse even Rohan Davey has 2 superbowl rings with the Patriots.

 

[irishfanatic]

Can you be more specific about the problem with this fan base?

Certainly, it is my opinion that the fan base is somewhat fractured in so called different camps. I am going to assume you are aware of this.For all my time here over the years this was not the case, but it is now. It is my opinion that this takes from the enjoyment of what I had grown accustomed to on this brilliant Patriots message board for so many,many years. You may have a different opinion and that is perfectly fine.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

They had the lead in the 4th-quarter of SB 52 even with the defense getting embarrassed. They also had the lead with under a minute left in both SB losses to NYG.

How much time are you giving Belichick? Remember he's 70 so I don't think he's coaching more than 3-5 more seasons (or perhaps until he catches Shula). He infused the roster last offseason with unprecedented spending, he's got his new franchise quarterback, and he's got another draft right in front of him. So what does a successfully completed rebuild look like to you?

They had the lead in the 4th quarter, or
They had a 4th-quarter lead

Just because you're writing about football, you don't put a hyphen after every number. The hyphen is usually overgeneralized from the rule that when the number is part of a compound modifier -- that is, when it and the next word together form an adjective or adverb -- you add the hyphen. In sports, numbers are often part of such phrases. A fourth-down play. A seven-minute drive. A three-point shot. A 12-point lead.

That doesn't mean that the play was on fourth-down (no hyphen), the drive took seven-minutes (no hyphen), the drive lasted seven-minutes (no hyphen), the shot was worth three-points (no hyphen,) or that the team had a lead of 12-points.

Some very savvy sportswriters and overall good guys whom I otherwise admire insist on such superfluous hyphens. I can only hope to teach the children for the next generation.

This is the important stuff. By the way, yes, you pronounce the "t" in the middle of "important." But don't stop the whole conversation to over-annunciate it. Okay done.

 

[Boomer B]

I would rather be undefeated with 4+ rings because every quarterback who has lost a super bowl says it sucks.

You’re a clown. What a fair weather fan.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Wait so Mac 10 is trying to make a case the 07 Giants were one of the worst teams to make a SB?

This is why you can never look at just records. Yes their regular season record wasn't good. But anyone who watched football knew that defense was top tier.

If you want to blame Brady for losing to huge underdogs. Well...you have to go the other way too. Patriots don't win SB 36 without Brady. If you look at media predictions going into that game, everyone had the Rams winning big. Especially on that track in NO.

So let's just go with the premise Brady cost the team SB 42 (Not true). But let's give you that.

Brady is directly responsible for SB 38. 29 points (Carolina) will win most SB's. Brady got 32. Led the game winning FG drive at the end.

Now let's go to SB 49. Down 24-14 with time running down against the LOB. Brady has two TD drives to win the game. Now, you may say "Seattle should've run it. Brady got lucky". Ok. But do you realize how lucky Seattle was to even be in position to win that game? David Tyree nearly happened all over again.

SB 51: 28-3 with like 23 minutes left. I don't care how piss poor Brady might've played up to that point. When you do what he did--that is a once in a billion type situation. No other QB would've pulled off what he did. If he had 3 SB wins before 28-3, then won his 4th, I think the comeback would've been enough to put him ahead of Montana. But this game, and his 5th, ended the debate forever.

SB 53: That was a defensive slugfest. Best defense on the other side. Regardless, Brady led another game winning score. Everyone knew the game was over after the Gronk catch. But I will give Belichick credit for redeeming himself after SB 52. Because as terrible as he was that day, he was equally as brilliant against the Rams.

SB 55: Three TD passes. 10 points would've won the game. But TB isn't in the SB if Brady never went there imo. His D played great. But Brady was still great too.

SB 52 was lost due to coaching. Nothing else. Brady getting strip sacked is stuff that happens. But the man put up 33 points.

SB 39: Balanced win. No doubt. The final score of that game doesn't truly reflect the game itself. NE was better.

SB 46: Brady's "worst" SB game. Yet...he left the field with the lead. Manning made a great throw. And the other dude made an equally better catch. Again...that defense was top notch.

So if your going to say Brady was "lucky" for the pick and 28-3, you have to say he was equally unlucky when Tyree happened. And what about Welker? Yeah it wasn't a perfect throw. But he's caught worst thrown balls. Brady was especially unlucky when the 2nd best CB got benched in SB 52.

Luck goes both ways.

Brady is 7-3. Sounds about right.

Btw, Montana did throw a pick in SB 23. Let's be honest. The dude had it and dropped it. And Brady has been in 6 more SB's than Joe. So obviously he's going to have more picks. And being in more SB's increases the likelihood of you losing a few.

I don't know where the Brady hate comes from. But he's the undisputed GOAT. There's no argument to be had he isn't.

Ugh.

 

[Pape]

Just presenting some facts. The team didn't drop-off much from 1996 to 1997... the biggest problem in both postseasons was the play of Bledsoe... in the two season-ending losses he had 6 INTs... it's hard to win with your quarterback making repeated horrible decisions.

From 1988 to 2002, the only Patriots defense to finish in the top-10 in both scoring and yards was Carroll's '99 squad. Carroll's last season the defense ranked 8th... Belichick's first three seasons... 20th, 24th & 23rd. The offense wasn't good during Carroll's last season but statistically it got worse under Belichick. I don't make up the numbers. The offense didn't get any good until Brady became the starter.

Not saying Carroll was a success in New England, because he wasn't, however (including postseason) he was 5 games over .500 preceding the Dynasty era. Since becoming the HC of NE, Belichick is 1 game below .500 without Brady, while with Brady the teams were good enough to win 17 division titles in 18 seasons. Seems like one could draw some conclusions from that.

Carroll's teams circled the drain. Got worse each passing season despite having talent. His is a case of numbers lying to you.

Context matters

And if you weren't out right saying Petey was successful here, you were certainly implying it

 

[NFL Mystique]

You’re a clown. What a fair weather fan.

What a ridiculous argument he's making there.

Brady made 10 fing SB's. Of course there's going to be a few SB losses. It's basic math. Again, 7 gold medals with 3 Silvers is better than 4 gold medals.

Montana gets credit for not making it to the big game enough. It's a bizarre argument.

 

[PatsWSB47]

What a ridiculous argument he's making there.

Brady made 10 fing SB's. Of course there's going to be a few SB losses. It's basic math. Again, 7 gold medals with 3 Silvers is better than 4 gold medals.

Montana gets credit for not making it to the big game enough. It's a bizarre argument.

Welcome to our board's embarrassment. Don't tell anyone.

 

[Mike the Brit]

LOL, is this before or after B O'B and Brady almost came to blows on the sideline? After all, Bill O'B did such a great job in Houston as head coach...

That sideline spat was pretty intense, but it was all part of them being buddies ...

Brady remembers sideline spat with O'Brien: 'He kind of let me have it'

Bill O'Brien spent five years with the Patriots, including two as the quarterbacks coach (2009-10) and one as the offensive coordinator (2011). But what he may be most remembered for in New England is one particularly fiery sideline spat with Tom Brady.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Joker]

Just presenting some facts. The team didn't drop-off much from 1996 to 1997... the biggest problem in both postseasons was the play of Bledsoe... in the two season-ending losses he had 6 INTs... it's hard to win with your quarterback making repeated horrible decisions.

From 1988 to 2002, the only Patriots defense to finish in the top-10 in both scoring and yards was Carroll's '99 squad. Carroll's last season the defense ranked 8th... Belichick's first three seasons... 20th, 24th & 23rd. The offense wasn't good during Carroll's last season but statistically it got worse under Belichick. I don't make up the numbers. The offense didn't get any good until Brady became the starter.

Not saying Carroll was a success in New England, because he wasn't, however (including postseason) he was 5 games over .500 preceding the Dynasty era. Since becoming the HC of NE, Belichick is 1 game below .500 without Brady, while with Brady the teams were good enough to win 17 division titles in 18 seasons. Seems like one could draw some conclusions from that.

I was a season ticket holder during the Carroll reign of error. You don't have any idea what you're talking about.