Jones Should Be Greatly Improved In 2022

[Wozzy]

In big games, Brady played better.

When you get to the playoffs, QBs have to perform.

Was Brady great 100% of the time?

No--but he was great so much of the time it was scry.

Compare how Stafford did this post season. He didn't do too well. Compare it to Aaron Rodgers last several years. Not good.

Rogers outplayed JimmyG by far and still lost because his special team's units made four crucial errors which cost them the game... Crawdaddy wants me to stop suggesting special teams matter. Laughable....

Here were the headlines at the end of the regular season before the playoffs began:

"Packers special teams finish dead last in Gosselin's annual special teams rankings for 2021"

packerswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/20/packers-special-teams-finish-dead-last-in-gosselins-annual-special-teams-rankings-for-2021/

And here were the headlines after the Packers season came to an end:

"4 big special teams mistakes combine to doom Packers season"

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/4-big-special-teams-mistakes-combine-to-doom-packers-season/ar-AAT33Jm

Do special teams matter?

Apparently... and blaming Rogers for the loss when the special teams turned the ball over for scores and TE Mercedes Lewis fumbled the ball is misguided at best.

Suggesting Brady has superpowers and that's why he has 7 rings while Mahomes or Rogers have one is not only wrong but it's disrespectful to all the defensive players as well.

Defensive ranking every time Brady won a Super Bowl:

Points Allowed (PPD):
2001: 6th
2003: 1st
2004: 4th
2014: 8th
2016: 2nd
2018: 7th
2020: 6th

Forced Turnovers:
2001: 8th
2003: 2nd
2004: 3rd
2014: 14th
2016: 14th
2018: 5th
2020: 5th

Yeah, Tom did it with his superpowers alone. It wasn't that he was on the best teams. Just a silly take.

QB's are an important position, the most important offensive position... they're still just one position in one of three phases.

They get all the glory, get all the chicks... they're entirely overrated by fans. If Nick Foles and Joe Flacco can do it, it ain't magic.

 

[Rob0729]

BGC found this nugget:

Mac Jones liked this tweet:

Looks like Mac is working with Tom House.

Tom House when talking to Phil Perry had said he could add "3-5 mph" to Mac's velocity.

House has talked as if Jones was going to be a client in several interviews. I can't see how he wouldn't be. Most young QBs go to him these days.

 

[PatsWSB47]

The quarterback is the most important player on the field. He handles the ball every single offensive play. It's mostly up to him to keep a drive alive. That even helps the defense.

 

[Wozzy]

The quarterback is the most important player on the field. He handles the ball every single offensive play. It's mostly up to him to keep a drive alive. That even helps the defense.

A center handles the ball on every offensive play as well. I’d say all 5 starting offensive linemen are equal in importance to the QB. I’d say each position group is important.

Nobody is debating QB production is important, only that you don’t need your QB to be the best in the league to win, not even close. Burrows is better than Staffords and lost, Rogers is better than JimmyG and lost to him.

Also that the difference between Aaron Rogers and Deshaun Watson isn’t that great, the difference between the best of the best players isn’t great, the margins are small… team is why Rogers won 13 games in 2020 and Watson won 4.

 

[Calhoun44]

BGC found this nugget:

Mac Jones liked this tweet:

Looks like Mac is working with Tom House.

Tom House when talking to Phil Perry had said he could add "3-5 mph" to Mac's velocity.

Thanks for this nugget about Mac. I had to check the thread title after reading this thread for a bit to make sure I clicked on the thread about our current QB.

 

[PatsWSB47]

A center handles the ball on every offensive play as well. I’d say all 5 starting offensive linemen are equal in importance to the QB. I’d say each position group is important.

Nobody is debating QB production is important, only that you don’t need your QB to be the best in the league to win, not even close. Burrows is better than Staffords and lost, Rogers is better than JimmyG and lost to him.

Also that the difference between Aaron Rogers and Deshaun Watson isn’t that great, the difference between the best of the best players isn’t great, the margins are small… team is why Rogers won 13 games in 2020 and Watson won 4.

I knew you'd come back with the center like it blows my point out of the water. Yeah you're right the center is the guy lol. I didn't come up with the notion that the quarterback is the most important player on the field. You hear it over and over and over again by football experts.

 

[Wozzy]

I knew you'd come back with the center like it blows my point out of the water. Yeah you're right the center is the guy lol. I didn't come up with the notion that the quarterback is the most important player on the field. You hear it over and over and over again by football experts.

The engine is the most important part of a car… how does it run with no gas?

I said look at each position group as a measure of importance, not center alone… OL versus QB, there’s only one starting QB, there are 5 starting linemen.

Having a crap OLine is the biggest reason Joe Burrow got sacked 7 times in the Super Bowl and the Bengals lost.

How important is the QB position if Deshaun Watson can be the best in the league in 2020 yet win 4 games… not as important as you think.

 

[upstater1]

Rogers outplayed JimmyG by far and still lost because his special team's units made four crucial errors which cost them the game... Crawdaddy wants me to stop suggesting special teams matter. Laughable....

Here were the headlines at the end of the regular season before the playoffs began:

"Packers special teams finish dead last in Gosselin's annual special teams rankings for 2021"

packerswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/20/packers-special-teams-finish-dead-last-in-gosselins-annual-special-teams-rankings-for-2021/

And here were the headlines after the Packers season came to an end:

"4 big special teams mistakes combine to doom Packers season"

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/4-big-special-teams-mistakes-combine-to-doom-packers-season/ar-AAT33Jm

Do special teams matter?

Apparently... and blaming Rogers for the loss when the special teams turned the ball over for scores and TE Mercedes Lewis fumbled the ball is misguided at best.

Suggesting Brady has superpowers and that's why he has 7 rings while Mahomes or Rogers have one is not only wrong but it's disrespectful to all the defensive players as well.

Defensive ranking every time Brady won a Super Bowl:

Points Allowed (PPD):
2001: 6th
2003: 1st
2004: 4th
2014: 8th
2016: 2nd
2018: 7th
2020: 6th

Forced Turnovers:
2001: 8th
2003: 2nd
2004: 3rd
2014: 14th
2016: 14th
2018: 5th
2020: 5th

Yeah, Tom did it with his superpowers alone. It wasn't that he was on the best teams. Just a silly take.

QB's are an important position, the most important offensive position... they're still just one position in one of three phases.

They get all the glory, get all the chicks... they're entirely overrated by fans. If Nick Foles and Joe Flacco can do it, it ain't magic.

My aunt could outplay Jimmy G. and she only excels at knitting.

Brady has done it consistently over a career; he comes back in games. He's come back from at least 27-3 deficits 3x in his career ON THE BIGGEST STAGE. No one else has even done it once.

 

[venecol]

A center handles the ball on every offensive play as well. I’d say all 5 starting offensive linemen are equal in importance to the QB. I’d say each position group is important.

Nobody is debating QB production is important, only that you don’t need your QB to be the best in the league to win, not even close. Burrows is better than Staffords and lost, Rogers is better than JimmyG and lost to him.

Also that the difference between Aaron Rogers and Deshaun Watson isn’t that great, the difference between the best of the best players isn’t great, the margins are small… team is why Rogers won 13 games in 2020 and Watson won 4.

You seem to be going out of your way to prove that football is a team sport. Nobody is debating that. Brady himself says that football is the ultimate team sport. QB is the key position in American football and the performance of the QB is usually decisive in the outcome of a game. The great QBs like PManning and Brady were key to the success of their teams. There's a reason the MVP award mainly goes to a QB (w/ RBs a distant second).

You also seem to want to conflate Brady with a slew of other QBs, when there's just no comparison. Brady is the greatest player in NFL history. That means something.

There are tons of charts like the one below showing Brady's ridiculous dominance amongst QBs, even amongst the best of his peers. And you're dead wrong if you don't think Brady has a clutch factor. We've all seen it. It's real. But go ahead and believe that the team's waterboy has the same impact as the QB.

Most games won when a QB throws 50+ passes (Brady > Ben + Brees + Peyton + Aaron combined).

 

[crawhammer]

When you say continue, you mean continue to ignore the 3 interceptions he threw?

I commented on the picks.

Yeah, Terry Bradshaw is probably the closest in terms of winning. He never led the league in passing once, threw as many INT's as he did TD's, was never once confused for the best QB's of his generation... but he won 4.

Wrong!

Firstly, the 1970's were an entirely different era/style of football, so Bradshaw's numbers couldn't have resembled those of Brady's career. Secondly, Bradshaw had more than respectable regular season numbers for his era, and if you're factoring in postseasons, as you should, then he was the best quarterback of his era.

His overall numbers are skewed by the nightmarish start to his career when in his first two seasons he had 19 TDs and 46 INTs. He led the NFL in TDs twice and was the league MVP in '78. He was a much better postseason quarterback than most of his contemporaries. His closest competitor was Roger Staubach, who Bradshaw outplayed and beat him twice in Super Bowls. Best quarterback of the 1970's was Terry Bradshaw.

Eli won 2. Does anyone think Eli was better than Marino, or were Tom Coughlin's teams just better than their competitors. Come to think of it, Eli beat Tom twice, Nick Foles beat Tom once... seems it doesn't take magic at all. Just good team play.

Great QB play is a huge advantage, but it's not as important as great team play... it if were, Nick Foles never would have beaten Brady while he was putting on the single greatest passing performance in Super Bowl history.

Dan Marino should bow down and kiss the rings of Eli Manning, who had more postseason balls and determination than his brother and Marino combined. Putting it in the context of the era played, Marino is arguably the most prolific passer in the history of the league. He however was not a very good postseason quarterback. The one Super Bowl he made it to he was a major disappointment. He generally couldn't get out of the divisional round. That loss to the Patriots in the '85 AFCCG was a disgrace. He was 0-3 head-to-head with Jim Kelly, who was an awful postseason quarterback. Marino's last best chance to get back to a Super Bowl came in '94 when he built a 21-6 halftime lead with 200 yards passing and 3 TDs against the Chargers but the Miami offense actually had -2 points in the second half due to a safety and they lost the game 22-21.

Eli may not be a HOFer but he bested Belichick's defenses twice with clutch game-winning drives in the Super Bowl. He won three road games in '07 to get into the SB and he was heroic in the '11 postseason... he got the snot beat out of him by the SF defense in the NFCCG. In the two NYG SB runs he he had 4 fourth-quarter comebacks and led 5 game-winning drives. So yes, Eli was pretty close to magical at times.

And Foles beat Brady because Belichick sat Butler.

 

[crawhammer]

Rogers outplayed JimmyG by far and still lost because his special team's units made four crucial errors which cost them the game... Crawdaddy wants me to stop suggesting special teams matter. Laughable....

Outplayed him by far??? Really, how so? Because Rodgers did a whole lot of nothing in that game... 3 friggin points from 9:25 left in the 1st quarter to the end of the game. Rodgers SUCKED in this game per his usual playoff appearance.

The blocked punt obviously was a big play... this one game doesn't validate your garbage about special teams mattering as much as the quarterbacks, offenses or defenses. Tampa Bay had the worst special teams in the NFL last season and they WON the Super Bowl.

The entire Patriots dynasty, they won 30 games, I'll give 1 to the special teams, the '01 AFCCG. Other than that, Vinatieri gets an honorable mention for his clutch FGs.

Matthew Slater, 10-time pro bowler, reportedly a Patriots HOFer... name one play he made in 25 playoff games that directly impacted the outcome of the game. Just one.

Defensive ranking every time Brady won a Super Bowl:

Points Allowed (PPD):
2001: 6th
2003: 1st
2004: 4th
2014: 8th
2016: 2nd
2018: 7th
2020: 6th

2001: The offense was also 6th in P/G. That vaunted defense was 24th in Y/G. Despite all of it, Brady still had to lead a game-winning drive to win the SB.

2003: Great defense that got absolutely torched by a bum quarterback with a 19-point fourth-quarter in the SB. Fortunately Brady bailed them out.

2004: This was the best team the Patriots had of their entire dynasty. They were good at virtually everything but they weren't winning Super Bowls without Brady. The team would become more Brady-centric over the next 15 seasons.

2014: The Patriots offense averaged 36 P/G in the postseason and Brady capped it off with a masterpiece fourth-quarter comeback against the Legion of Boom in the SB.

2016: The Patriots offense averaged 35 P/G in the postseason and Brady capped it off with an unfathomable comeback against Atlanta in the SB.

2018: The 3 consecutive 3rd-10s conversions in OT of the AFCCG were the highlight of this postseason. Brady had to score a TD there to win the game because Mahomes was toying with the Patriots defense who surrendered a 24-point fourth-quarter.

2020: Tampa Bay averaged 31 P/G in the postseason and the team dominated KC in the SB but this season was all about Brady turning the franchise with the worst winning percentage in professional sports into a champion.

You're just not getting it... Flacco, Foles, Stafford... these guys did it once in their entire careers. Go back and look at the one special postseason they put together.

Flacco was a beast in the '12 postseason... he had 11 TDs, 0 INT, and a passer rating of 117.2. He never did it again.

Foles completed 73% of his passes with 6 TDs, 1 INT, and a passer rating of 115.7. He never did it again.

Stafford averaged 300 Y/G with 9 TDs, 3 INTs, and a passer rating of 108.3. He doesn't have a playoff win in any other season.

Brady did it over and over and over again with two franchises. There have been a lot of great quarterbacks who played on great teams and they didn't win more than a half dozen Super Bowls.

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton... 6 HOFers with a combined 1 Super Bowl ring... look'em up, they all sucked in the postseason.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

 

[captain stone]

The people who spoke ahead of those highlights- Cowturd, Tubby Wrex, Notso Sharpe, Manjudas, the dude who was talking to him - are fuc-king clowns the rest of the year too... Except for Bucky Brooks. When he speaks, I listen... and he's not wrong about Mac, whose rate of improvement this offseason (and the following one too) MUST be Significantly better than that of the other 4 rookies if he is ever going to take this team where it wants to go... Having better receivers & protection from his over-rated OL would also kinda help, Bill.

 

[Wozzy]

My aunt could outplay Jimmy G. and she only excels at knitting.

Jimmy's team won the game... guess you missed the point.

 

[Wozzy]

I commented on the picks.

Nah you ignored the INT's along with the Buc's D sacking Rogers 5 times and forcing two turnovers. You believe in your cheerleading heart that Brady alone led the charge back... from a hole he largely dug. It's a childish teenage fangirl take but we've grown used to it in Patriot Nation... it's a prevailing sentiment.

Wrong!

Firstly, the 1970's were an entirely different era/style of football, so Bradshaw's numbers couldn't have resembled those of Brady's career. Secondly, Bradshaw had more than respectable regular season numbers for his era, and if you're factoring in postseasons, as you should, then he was the best quarterback of his era.

His overall numbers are skewed by the nightmarish start to his career when in his first two seasons he had 19 TDs and 46 INTs. He led the NFL in TDs twice and was the league MVP in '78. He was a much better postseason quarterback than most of his contemporaries. His closest competitor was Roger Staubach, who Bradshaw outplayed and beat him twice in Super Bowls. Best quarterback of the 1970's was Terry Bradshaw.

Tarkenton was better, Staubach was better, Ken Stabler, Griese, Bert Jones, Billy Kilmer, Jim Hart, Ken Anderson, Archie Manning... there were a lot of QB's as good or better than Bradshaw. He threw more INT's than TD's five times in the 1970's but his Steeler's teams were dominant... that's why he won 4 rings.

Dan Marino should bow down and kiss the rings of Eli Manning, who had more postseason balls and determination than his brother and Marino combined. Putting it in the context of the era played, Marino is arguably the most prolific passer in the history of the league. He however was not a very good postseason quarterback. The one Super Bowl he made it to he was a major disappointment. He generally couldn't get out of the divisional round. That loss to the Patriots in the '85 AFCCG was a disgrace. He was 0-3 head-to-head with Jim Kelly, who was an awful postseason quarterback. Marino's last best chance to get back to a Super Bowl came in '94 when he built a 21-6 halftime lead with 200 yards passing and 3 TDs against the Chargers but the Miami offense actually had -2 points in the second half due to a safety and they lost the game 22-21.

Eli may not be a HOFer but he bested Belichick's defenses twice with clutch game-winning drives in the Super Bowl. He won three road games in '07 to get into the SB and he was heroic in the '11 postseason... he got the snot beat out of him by the SF defense in the NFCCG. In the two NYG SB runs he he had 4 fourth-quarter comebacks and led 5 game-winning drives. So yes, Eli was pretty close to magical at times.

Marino was a far better QB than Eli was and played in a tougher climate for QB's. How come we never hear nonsense like "Eli never won anything without Tom Coughlin?" It's true, it's also true those Giants teams were talented across the board and Eli was "good" but nothing special.

And Foles beat Brady because Belichick sat Butler.

Foles beat Brady... despite Brady putting up the single greatest performance in Super Bowl history. Seems QB play is only part of the equation.

But as with most fan fiction Tom is responsible for all the wins, but when they lose it was somebody else's fault.

The Pats lost the the Eagles because Hightower, Alan Branch, Jon Jones, and eventually Chung were too injured to play. Malcolm Butler sucked in 2017 and his career spiraled from there.

 

[Wozzy]

Outplayed him by far??? Really, how so? Because Rodgers did a whole lot of nothing in that game... 3 friggin points from 9:25 left in the 1st quarter to the end of the game. Rodgers SUCKED in this game per his usual playoff appearance.

The blocked punt obviously was a big play... this one game doesn't validate your garbage about special teams mattering as much as the quarterbacks, offenses or defenses. Tampa Bay had the worst special teams in the NFL last season and they WON the Super Bowl.

The entire Patriots dynasty, they won 30 games, I'll give 1 to the special teams, the '01 AFCCG. Other than that, Vinatieri gets an honorable mention for his clutch FGs.

Matthew Slater, 10-time pro bowler, reportedly a Patriots HOFer... name one play he made in 25 playoff games that directly impacted the outcome of the game. Just one.


2001: The offense was also 6th in P/G. That vaunted defense was 24th in Y/G. Despite all of it, Brady still had to lead a game-winning drive to win the SB.

2003: Great defense that got absolutely torched by a bum quarterback with a 19-point fourth-quarter in the SB. Fortunately Brady bailed them out.

2004: This was the best team the Patriots had of their entire dynasty. They were good at virtually everything but they weren't winning Super Bowls without Brady. The team would become more Brady-centric over the next 15 seasons.

2014: The Patriots offense averaged 36 P/G in the postseason and Brady capped it off with a masterpiece fourth-quarter comeback against the Legion of Boom in the SB.

2016: The Patriots offense averaged 35 P/G in the postseason and Brady capped it off with an unfathomable comeback against Atlanta in the SB.

2018: The 3 consecutive 3rd-10s conversions in OT of the AFCCG were the highlight of this postseason. Brady had to score a TD there to win the game because Mahomes was toying with the Patriots defense who surrendered a 24-point fourth-quarter.

2020: Tampa Bay averaged 31 P/G in the postseason and the team dominated KC in the SB but this season was all about Brady turning the franchise with the worst winning percentage in professional sports into a champion.

You're just not getting it... Flacco, Foles, Stafford... these guys did it once in their entire careers. Go back and look at the one special postseason they put together.

Flacco was a beast in the '12 postseason... he had 11 TDs, 0 INT, and a passer rating of 117.2. He never did it again.

Foles completed 73% of his passes with 6 TDs, 1 INT, and a passer rating of 115.7. He never did it again.

Stafford averaged 300 Y/G with 9 TDs, 3 INTs, and a passer rating of 108.3. He doesn't have a playoff win in any other season.

Brady did it over and over and over again with two franchises. There have been a lot of great quarterbacks who played on great teams and they didn't win more than a half dozen Super Bowls.

Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton... 6 HOFers with a combined 1 Super Bowl ring... look'em up, they all sucked in the postseason.

This is a long winded QB super-fan way of saying some of the best defenses in the league were irrelevant and Tom's teams won because of QB magic. It's not accurate and ignores total team contributions... but hey, there's no logic in fandom.

#Unicorns

 

[PatsWSB47]

This is a long winded QB super-fan way of saying some of the best defenses in the league were irrelevant and Tom's teams won because of QB magic. It's not accurate and ignores total team contributions... but hey, there's no logic in fandom.

#Unicorns

Blah, blag, blag, blah, blah. Duh, a team needs everyone but they need a quarterback the most. "Fanboys" all over country say it all the time: ESPN, NFL, CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, SI

 

[Wozzy]

Blah, blag, blag, blah, blah. Duh, a team needs everyone but they need a quarterback the most. "Fanboys" all over country say it all the time: ESPN, NFL, CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, SI

There’s a lot of people with degrees in broadcast journalism who don’t know much about actual sports. All position groups are important if you want to win a ring.

Mac has to be good, he doesn’t need to possess unquantifiable magic powers that appear when Nick Foles or Flacco wins a ring then disappear when they don’t. The team has to be great to win a ring.

 

[PatsWSB47]

There’s a lot of people with degrees in broadcast journalism who don’t know much about actual sports. All position groups are important if you want to win a ring.

Mac has to be good, he doesn’t need to possess unquantifiable magic powers that appear when Nick Foles or Flacco wins a ring then disappear when they don’t. The team has to be great to win a ring.

Mac is the most important player on the team.

 

[moosekill]

The quarterback is the most important player on the field. He handles the ball every single offensive play. It's mostly up to him to keep a drive alive. That even helps the defense.

So does the center. My son played center in high school. He certainly wasn't the most important player on the field. Perhaps a redo?