Jones Should Be Greatly Improved In 2022

[upstater1]

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. TEAM.

It's why Brady has 7 rings, Eli Manning and Ben Rapistburger have 2, Mahomes/Rogers/Brees/Nick Foles have one and Marino has none. It's how Joe Gibbs won three different Super Bowls with three different average journeymen QB's.

Brady was not the only star on the Patriots... Seymour, Law, Mankins, Wilfork, Harrison, Milloy, Vollmer, Mayo, Gronkowski, McCourty, Collins, Hightower, Mason etc etc etc would disagree. "The Patriots won with less talent" is one of the worst takes in pro football history.

You do realize that the Patriots play other teams who also have players on them, right?

 

[crawhammer]

No, it's not my way of saying BB was more relevant than Brady... it's my way of proving unequivocally TEAM was more important than any one person.

BB drafted Brady, we don't have to qualify that he was more important.

Brady has 7 rings because he played on teams with the best Defenses, OLines, Special Teams, Weapons, Coaching and yes, QB play... combined... that's why he had 3 rings by the time his rookie contract ended and Mahomes had one. Not some unquantifiable "clutch gene" that existed when he won and magically went missing when he didn't.

This ^ is garbage fanboy take, cheerleader nonsense, usually from someone who never played organized football at any level.

Belichick drafting Brady was an afterthought, he took him at 199, Belichick had no clue he was drafting the greatest quarterback in the history of the league. The team signed Bledsoe to a 10-year contract prior to the start of the '01 season so just stop it already. When it comes to Brady, Belichick got LUCKY.

Frankly you sound stupid saying Brady has 7 rings "because he played on teams with the best Defenses, OLines, Special Teams, Weapons, Coaching and yes, QB play... combined."

Brady won a Super Bowl last season with a mediocre head coach. Their secondary was young and their pass defense was not good for most of the season. Their special teams were terrible. Offensively they didn't run the ball effectively for most of the season. The only thing that they were consistently good at for the entire season was throwing the ball. Their offense got particularly hot after their bye week... their last 8 games of the season (including the postseason) they were averaging nearly 35 points per game (with Brady throwing 23 TDs over the span).

Regarding weapons, while in New England, Brady had the best weapons in the league exactly once (2007). Brady was often asked to do more with less and with changing supporting casts.

And how do you suppose Brady led game-winning drives in all 6 of his SB victories with New England? He's clutch and it's quantifiable. They track these things... game-winning drives and fourth-quarter comebacks... Brady has 14 and 9 respectively in the postseason and both blow away second place.

This is what clutch looks like in the 4th-quarter (&OT) of the Super Bowl:
Super Bowl 49 vs. Seahawks: 13-15 (87%), 124 yards, 2 TDs
Super Bowl 51 vs. Falcons: 21-26 (81%), 246 yards, 1 TD

How about Brady's 4th-quarter & OT stats in the snow bowl:
20-26 (80%), 137, 1 TD (rushing)

The game-winning drive against the Rams in SB 36.
The 18-point 4th-quarter and GWD against the Panthers in SB 38.
Overcoming two 14-point deficits to the Ravens in the division round.
Overcoming a 10-point deficit in the 4th-quarter to the Jaguars in the AFCCG.
Three consecutive 3rd-10 conversions in OT against the Chiefs in the AFCCG.

It's not a coincidence that Brady did all of these things. Clutch is a real thing and Brady has more of it than any player in the history of the league.

You keep on with your "Special Teams" wins championships. Laughable.

 

[sb1]

Brady won a SB without Belichick. His arrival turned a 7-9 team into a champion almost overnight.

Barring a surprise Patriots team shocking the world ala 2001 BB probably won't win another one by himself. I don't think he wants to coach long enough for that championship window to be open.

That says nothing about BB as a coach but it's more evidence that that great players mean a lot more to a team's success than great coaches do.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady was not the only star on the Patriots... Seymour, Law, Mankins, Wilfork, Harrison, Milloy, Vollmer, Mayo, Gronkowski, McCourty, Collins, Hightower, Mason etc etc etc would disagree.

Subtracting only one of those players would kill any chance of winning the Super Bowl... Brady.

And other than Brady, from your list there, more than half were not "stars." I'll give you Seymour (who was not around for the latter part of the dynasty), Law (who played in only two championship postseasons) and Gronk (who also played in only two Patriots championship postseasons and was not part of the 28-3 comeback against the Falcons).

Mankins was an all-pro once and he was around for only one SB championship. Not a star.

Wilfork was a star in New England only. Again a one-time only all-pro and he was around for two SB championships.

Harrison, as valuable as he was to the Patriots defense in '03 and '04, he wasn't a star either. Again, two SB championships.

Milloy was not a star. One-time all-pro and one-time SB championship.

Vollmer, a star? You're kidding.

Mayo never played in a SB championship postseason. He won DRoY and was named all-pro once but his career was short and he was never a star. Again, he never played in a SB championship postseason, which should automatically disqualify him from this discussion.

McCourty is another NE-only star. League wide he's not a star and nor does he deserve to be.

I assume you mean Jamie Collins... in which case obviously not a star. He also was around for only one SB championship season.

Hightower is another NE-only star. Bigtime play-maker in the postseason tough. Never a first team all-pro.

Mason is obviously not a star.

The ONLY actual star player who spanned the entire Patriots dynasty was Tom Brady. No other Patriots player has more than 3 rings.

 

[XLIX]

Subtracting only one of those players would kill any chance of winning the Super Bowl... Brady.

And other than Brady, from your list there, more than half were not "stars." I'll give you Seymour (who was not around for the latter part of the dynasty), Law (who played in only two championship postseasons) and Gronk (who also played in only two Patriots championship postseasons and was not part of the 28-3 comeback against the Falcons).

Mankins was an all-pro once and he was around for only one SB championship. Not a star.

Mankins never won a Super Bowl. He is our Don Mattingly. We won the year before he arrived and the first year after he left, but never when he was here.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Belichick drafting Brady was an afterthought, he took him at 199, Belichick had no clue he was drafting the greatest quarterback in the history of the league. The team signed Bledsoe to a 10-year contract prior to the start of the '01 season so just stop it already. When it comes to Brady, Belichick got LUCKY.

Frankly you sound stupid saying Brady has 7 rings "because he played on teams with the best Defenses, OLines, Special Teams, Weapons, Coaching and yes, QB play... combined."

Brady won a Super Bowl last season with a mediocre head coach. Their secondary was young and their pass defense was not good for most of the season. Their special teams were terrible. Offensively they didn't run the ball effectively for most of the season. The only thing that they were consistently good at for the entire season was throwing the ball. Their offense got particularly hot after their bye week... their last 8 games of the season (including the postseason) they were averaging nearly 35 points per game (with Brady throwing 23 TDs over the span).

Regarding weapons, while in New England, Brady had the best weapons in the league exactly once (2007). Brady was often asked to do more with less and with changing supporting casts.

And how do you suppose Brady led game-winning drives in all 6 of his SB victories with New England? He's clutch and it's quantifiable. They track these things... game-winning drives and fourth-quarter comebacks... Brady has 14 and 9 respectively in the postseason and both blow away second place.

This is what clutch looks like in the 4th-quarter (&OT) of the Super Bowl:
Super Bowl 49 vs. Seahawks: 13-15 (87%), 124 yards, 2 TDs
Super Bowl 51 vs. Falcons: 21-26 (81%), 246 yards, 1 TD

How about Brady's 4th-quarter & OT stats in the snow bowl:
20-26 (80%), 137, 1 TD (rushing)

The game-winning drive against the Rams in SB 36.
The 18-point 4th-quarter and GWD against the Panthers in SB 38.
Overcoming two 14-point deficits to the Ravens in the division round.
Overcoming a 10-point deficit in the 4th-quarter to the Jaguars in the AFCCG.
Three consecutive 3rd-10 conversions in OT against the Chiefs in the AFCCG.

It's not a coincidence that Brady did all of these things. Clutch is a real thing and Brady has more of it than any player in the history of the league.

You keep on with your "Special Teams" wins championships. Laughable.

There's a few here that want to define Brady by every mistake.......that he woudnt have to be clutch if he had been great all game long......like his clutch drives are negated.

 

[XLIX]

Brady also threw one TD in the entire 2001 three game postseason... along with one INT.

I have seen people ignorantly quoting this stat before, and they are clearly unaware of the context of those games.

The first one was played in blizzard conditions. Brady had 312 yards passing in that game and ran for a TD (which people always conveniently forget about). He played a very good game. The final drive in OT he took the team all the way to the 6 yard line. It could just as easily been another TD but this was a day where all you needed was a FG in sudden death OT to win so that's what they settled for.

The second game... hey, he got injured early and didn't come back. No excuses, but that's what happened.

The third game, the game plan just did not call for a pass heavy attack. He threw a TD and led his team on one of the greatest last second drives in Super Bowl history but it simply was not a pass-heavy plan.

There are an awful lot of QBs who would sacrifice their entire careers for a 3-game playoff stretch like that.

 

[Wozzy]

You do realize that the Patriots play other teams who also have players on them, right?

And?

 

[Wozzy]

Belichick drafting Brady was an afterthought, he took him at 199, Belichick had no clue he was drafting the greatest quarterback in the history of the league. The team signed Bledsoe to a 10-year contract prior to the start of the '01 season so just stop it already. When it comes to Brady, Belichick got LUCKY.

Frankly you sound stupid saying Brady has 7 rings "because he played on teams with the best Defenses, OLines, Special Teams, Weapons, Coaching and yes, QB play... combined."

Brady won a Super Bowl last season with a mediocre head coach. Their secondary was young and their pass defense was not good for most of the season. Their special teams were terrible. Offensively they didn't run the ball effectively for most of the season. The only thing that they were consistently good at for the entire season was throwing the ball. Their offense got particularly hot after their bye week... their last 8 games of the season (including the postseason) they were averaging nearly 35 points per game (with Brady throwing 23 TDs over the span).

Regarding weapons, while in New England, Brady had the best weapons in the league exactly once (2007). Brady was often asked to do more with less and with changing supporting casts.

And how do you suppose Brady led game-winning drives in all 6 of his SB victories with New England? He's clutch and it's quantifiable. They track these things... game-winning drives and fourth-quarter comebacks... Brady has 14 and 9 respectively in the postseason and both blow away second place.

This is what clutch looks like in the 4th-quarter (&OT) of the Super Bowl:
Super Bowl 49 vs. Seahawks: 13-15 (87%), 124 yards, 2 TDs
Super Bowl 51 vs. Falcons: 21-26 (81%), 246 yards, 1 TD

How about Brady's 4th-quarter & OT stats in the snow bowl:
20-26 (80%), 137, 1 TD (rushing)

The game-winning drive against the Rams in SB 36.
The 18-point 4th-quarter and GWD against the Panthers in SB 38.
Overcoming two 14-point deficits to the Ravens in the division round.
Overcoming a 10-point deficit in the 4th-quarter to the Jaguars in the AFCCG.
Three consecutive 3rd-10 conversions in OT against the Chiefs in the AFCCG.

It's not a coincidence that Brady did all of these things. Clutch is a real thing and Brady has more of it than any player in the history of the league.

You keep on with your "Special Teams" wins championships. Laughable.

The only reason Brady advanced past Green Bay in the NFC Title game in 2020 while throwing 3 INT's and nearly choking the game away was the Buc's defense sacking Aaron Rogers five times, forcing two turnovers and holding them to 67 yards rushing. But Tom did it all despite the mediocre coach and team around him... sounds legit. Keep doing you Crawhammer...

 

[Wozzy]

Subtracting only one of those players would kill any chance of winning the Super Bowl... Brady.

And other than Brady, from your list there, more than half were not "stars." I'll give you Seymour (who was not around for the latter part of the dynasty), Law (who played in only two championship postseasons) and Gronk (who also played in only two Patriots championship postseasons and was not part of the 28-3 comeback against the Falcons).

Mankins was an all-pro once and he was around for only one SB championship. Not a star.

Wilfork was a star in New England only. Again a one-time only all-pro and he was around for two SB championships.

Harrison, as valuable as he was to the Patriots defense in '03 and '04, he wasn't a star either. Again, two SB championships.

Milloy was not a star. One-time all-pro and one-time SB championship.

Vollmer, a star? You're kidding.

Mayo never played in a SB championship postseason. He won DRoY and was named all-pro once but his career was short and he was never a star. Again, he never played in a SB championship postseason, which should automatically disqualify him from this discussion.

McCourty is another NE-only star. League wide he's not a star and nor does he deserve to be.

I assume you mean Jamie Collins... in which case obviously not a star. He also was around for only one SB championship season.

Hightower is another NE-only star. Bigtime play-maker in the postseason tough. Never a first team all-pro.

Mason is obviously not a star.

The ONLY actual star player who spanned the entire Patriots dynasty was Tom Brady. No other Patriots player has more than 3 rings.

Every Patriots player over the years wasn't any good, despite Pro Bowls, All Pro nods, championships... got it.

When you fall asleep at night next to your Brady body pillow does it talk to you and whisper sweet nothings in your ear?

 

[upstater1]

And?

They don't have Brady. If they did, we'd be 3-6 in those Super Bowls.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady won a SB without Belichick. His arrival turned a 7-9 team into a champion almost overnight.

There's been 10 teams since 2015 that averaged over 2 turnovers offensively per game... how many of them were 500 or better?

Zero is the answer. The average number of wins for all these teams combined was four.

The 2019 Bucs had the most turnovers of all ten teams (41) since 2015 and had the best record at 7-9 of all ten teams.

Jameis Winston's 30 Interceptions in 2019 is tied for 6th worst in NFL history. His 12 fumbles was tied for 5th worst in the NFL that season. That team was dead last in total turnovers in 2019, the majority of which was caused by the one guy most responsible for protecting the ball... the QB.

Jameis Winston also led the entire NFL in passing yards in 2019, he threw 33 TD's. So you saying Tom Brady brought some magical element beyond mainly protecting the ball is ridiculous fan gushing.

This isn't Rudy or a Disney movie, these are full grown adults playing a sport they've played their whole life. Ball security and yes, bringing in other players who wanted to play with him. Beyond QB and LT the Bucs were the absolute best team he could have gone to.

In the NFL one year has nothing to do with the next, you need to start over. They had everything they needed to win except a LT and a QB. I actually said Tampa was the best landing spot for Brady before he left, so this isn't one of those hindsight opinions.

 

[Wozzy]

They don't have Brady. If they did, we'd be 3-6 in those Super Bowls.

Deshaun Watson led the NFL in passing yards in 2020, he had the second best QB Rating in the league... these were by far the best numbers of his career... his team won 4 games.

Drew Brees led the NFL in passing yards on the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league in 2016, his defense was ranked 32nd... dead last... they went 9-7.

Matt Stafford hadn't won a single playoff game in twelve years in Detroit, one year on the Rams and he was a champion... on a team that went to a Super Bowl a couple years prior with Jared Goff.

Yeah... QB's are magical unicorns who make everything possible.

 

[upstater1]

Deshaun Watson led the NFL in passing yards in 2020, he had the second best QB Rating in the league... these were by far the best numbers of his career... his team won 4 games.

Drew Brees led the NFL in passing yards on the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league in 2016, his defense was ranked 32nd... dead last... they went 9-7.

Matt Stafford hadn't won a single playoff game in twelve years in Detroit, one year on the Rams and he was a champion... on a team that went to a Super Bowl a couple years prior with Jared Goff.

Yeah... QB's are magical unicorns who make everything possible.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here at all.

What are you saying about Watson, Brees, Stafford? That they are interchangeable with Brady?

I'm really confused about what you're even talking about.

Let's just say we definitely disagree.

Brady has the clutch gene. That's it for me.

 

[venecol]

The only reason Brady advanced past Green Bay in the NFC Title game in 2020 while throwing 3 INT's and nearly choking the game away was the Buc's defense sacking Aaron Rogers five times, forcing two turnovers and holding them to 67 yards rushing. But Tom did it all despite the mediocre coach and team around him... sounds legit. Keep doing you Crawhammer...

• No team has ever scored 30+ points four times in a single post season, until the Tom Brady led Buccaneers did it in 2020 SB run at the age of 43.
• Tom Brady threw TDs to seven different receivers during the 2020 post season, tying with only the '99 Rams (GSOT).
• There's been 49 teams that were all outgained in yards and lost the TO battle during a road game to decide a conf. or league title. Those teams went 1-48, with the only win coming from the Tom Brady led Buccaneers.
• Tom Brady led Buccaneers was the 5th team all-time to win 3 road games in a single postseason. Four of the 5 went on to win the SB.
• Tom Brady played in 10 SBs. No other player has even played in seven.
• That's just with the Bucs.
  
  

 

[crawhammer]

The only reason Brady advanced past Green Bay in the NFC Title game in 2020 while throwing 3 INT's and nearly choking the game away was the Buc's defense sacking Aaron Rogers five times, forcing two turnovers and holding them to 67 yards rushing. But Tom did it all despite the mediocre coach and team around him... sounds legit. Keep doing you Crawhammer...

Tampa Bay built a 28-10 lead in the NFCCG in large part due to Brady's play. The TD pass to Miller with a second left in the first half easily was the play of the game. One of those second half picks was effectively a punt and another deflected off a receiver's hands. The biggest takeaway from the second half was Rodgers inability to get the ball in the end zone from the Tampa 8-yard line. On the 3rd down he had a clear running lane into the end zone but instead went for an extremely low percentage pass into double coverage. That's a choke.

Tampa Bay hadn't won a playoff game in 17 years before Brady led them on a Super Bowl run. In the 45-year history of the franchise, Tampa Bay had one road playoff win, they had three with Brady in one postseason. In the 45-year history of the franchise, Tampa Bay had a top-3 scoring offense once, they finished in the top-3 both seasons with Brady.

Shall I continue?

They had everything they needed to win except a LT and a QB.

You would have everyone believe the LT made the difference.

You forgot Brady bringing in Gronk and AB. He also recruited Fournette. Tampa Bay had a very good roster but obviously Brady was the biggest difference. I think you're the only one disputing this.

Yeah... QB's are magical unicorns who make everything possible.

That's probably the opposite of what's being said.

Not all quarterbacks are created equal. More than half the quarterbacks in any given season generally aren't that good. Typically those teams don't have a very good chance of contending for a championship. Teams with elite or pro bowl-caliber quarterbacks generally have the best chance of being successful. This season alone, 8 of the top-10 quarterbacks in passer rating made the postseason.

But the only "magical unicorn" in the history of the league is Brady. It's why he has 10 SB appearances, 7 SB rings, and 5 SB MVPs. There is no other quarterback like him, he's unique. Somehow you're oblivious to this.

 

[Wozzy]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here at all.

What are you saying about Watson, Brees, Stafford? That they are interchangeable with Brady?

I'm really confused about what you're even talking about.

Let's just say we definitely disagree.

Brady has the clutch gene. That's it for me.

No, but if you believe the gulf between Brady and Brees rather than the gulf between the Patriots and Saints was the reason for 7 rings versus 1... then nobody help you. Brady was better than Brees, the gulf between the two was minute in relation to the difference between teams.

QB's can be the most important player on offense, possibly the entire team... Brees or Watson can be the best QB in the league and win 4 or 9 games, Goff has only lost one more game this year with the Lions than Stafford's did last year.

TEAM is bigger than any one player and QB's are generally overrated by the majority of fans. You need good QB play, the margins between the best of the best players in the league isn't very large in relation to size of the margins between teams. Brady played on the best teams over two decades, and without a doubt the best teams when he won rings.

How it relates to this thread?

Mac doesn't have to be Brady, he has to be the best player he can be. Get stronger and improve upon a relatively impressive rookie season.

 

[Wozzy]

Tampa Bay built a 28-10 lead in the NFCCG in large part due to Brady's play.

Shall I continue?

When you say continue, you mean continue to ignore the 3 interceptions he threw?

You would have everyone believe the LT made the difference.

Yes, every idiot knows the offensive tackle on the blindside is unimportant. Duh.

What was the name of that movie with Sandra Bullock called?

Just when I'm beginning to think you're not beyond hope, you say something like this.

You forgot Brady bringing in Gronk and AB. He also recruited Fournette. Tampa Bay had a very good roster but obviously Brady was the biggest difference. I think you're the only one disputing this.

I'm not disputing Brady was the biggest difference from Jameis Winston, I'm the one actually affirming it fully.

Not all quarterbacks are created equal. More than half the quarterbacks in any given season generally aren't that good. Typically those teams don't have a very good chance of contending for a championship. Teams with elite or pro bowl-caliber quarterbacks generally have the best chance of being successful. This season alone, 8 of the top-10 quarterbacks in passer rating made the postseason.

But the only "magical unicorn" in the history of the league is Brady. It's why he has 10 SB appearances, 7 SB rings, and 5 SB MVPs. There is no other quarterback like him, he's unique. Somehow you're oblivious to this.

Yeah, Terry Bradshaw is probably the closest in terms of winning. He never led the league in passing once, threw as many INT's as he did TD's, was never once confused for the best QB's of his generation... but he won 4.

Eli won 2. Does anyone think Eli was better than Marino, or were Tom Coughlin's teams just better than their competitors. Come to think of it, Eli beat Tom twice, Nick Foles beat Tom once... seems it doesn't take magic at all. Just good team play.

Great QB play is a huge advantage, but it's not as important as great team play... it if were, Nick Foles never would have beaten Brady while he was putting on the single greatest passing performance in Super Bowl history.

 

[upstater1]

No, but if you believe the gulf between Brady and Brees rather than the gulf between the Patriots and Saints was the reason for 7 rings versus 1... then nobody help you. Brady was better than Brees, the gulf between the two was minute in relation to the difference between teams.

QB's can be the most important player on offense, possibly the entire team... Brees or Watson can be the best QB in the league and win 4 or 9 games, Goff has only lost one more game this year with the Lions than Stafford's did last year.

TEAM is bigger than any one player and QB's are generally overrated by the majority of fans. You need good QB play, the margins between the best of the best players in the league isn't very large in relation to size of the margins between teams. Brady played on the best teams over two decades, and without a doubt the best teams when he won rings.

How it relates to this thread?

Mac doesn't have to be Brady, he has to be the best player he can be. Get stronger and improve upon a relatively impressive rookie season.

In big games, Brady played better.

When you get to the playoffs, QBs have to perform.

Was Brady great 100% of the time?

No--but he was great so much of the time it was scry.

Compare how Stafford did this post season. He didn't do too well. Compare it to Aaron Rodgers last several years. Not good.

 

[Kasmir]

BGC found this nugget:

Mac Jones liked this tweet:

Looks like Mac is working with Tom House.

Tom House when talking to Phil Perry had said he could add "3-5 mph" to Mac's velocity.