“The drafts have improved”

[State]

Within the first 10 years of his career as NE HC, Bill drafted 14 Pro Bowl/All Pro Players with one of them being a K and one Special Teamer. In fact, all of these players picked had one thing in common. They were picked with either Pioli or Reese in the house. Within the last 10 years, Bill has drafted a whopping ONE Pro Bowl/All Pro Player on defense and the other two a returner and Punter that was cut 7 months after receiving an extension.

The results speak for themselves that Bill has been really bad at drafting for many years.

Wow. Thank you for making the case so overwhelmingly.

 

[captain stone]

Way to miss the point.

McCourty: drafted in 2010
Hightower: drafted in 2012
Chung: drafted in 2009
Mankins: drafted in 2005
Watson: drafted in 2004
Wilson: drafted in 2003

6 of the 8 guys that you listed were all drafted over a decade ago. From 2014 to present there are two guys that have been worth a damn out of our top draft picks. That's how you have a team go into decline, when you are flopping on your early picks that often. And Dugger was someone we traded out for because we sat on our asses and watched a WR run happen right before us and rather than make a trade up and grab Jefferson we just sit on thumbs and said "oh well" and didn't bother with the 9 picks of the round. You can't tell me it was impossible for the Pats to jump 1 or 2 spots to grab a WR which was a huge position of need and would have been more impactful than any player we could add to the defense. And it's not even like Dugger and Barmore are some world class picks either. They are solid and have shown bright spots, but they aren't lighting the world on fire. They aren't Hightower/McCourty/Mankins level.

It's a big problem when your most valuable picks for almost a decade have amounted to only two solid role players.

Let's just go through some hits our division rivals got with their first two round picks in the draft in the last 10 years

Jets: Sheldon Richardson, Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Quinnen Willaims, Sauce Gardner, Breece Hall.
Bills. Robert Woods, Marquis Lawson, Shaq Lawson, TreDavious White, Tremaine Edmunds, Josh Allen, James Cook.
Dolphins: Devante Parker (lol), Xavien Howard, Jordan Phillips, Waddle, Robert Hunt, Jevon Holland.

And before you say it, quite a few of these guys were in range of the Patriots and I didn'y even bother to list all of them. Getting SOMETHING out of the first two rounds is important to maintaining a competitve team.

Screw it, let's look at the current top team in the NFL that appeared in 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. The Chiefs. Let's see how they did in the last 10 years with just the first two picks they took.

2013: They got Travis Kelce in the third round. Patriots easily could have got him.
2014: Dee Ford with the 23rd pick.
2015: Marcus Peters, Mitch Morse
2016: Chris Jones
2017: Patrick Mahomes.
2019: Mecole Hardman
2020: Clyde Edward Helaire, Willie Gay Jr
2021: Nick Bolton

No wonder they ended up being competitive when the were consistently getting value out of their best picks. You don't need a mega star each time. But when you are geting Easely who never plays, Jimmy G who sat on the bench for years, Malcolm Brown who was a flop, Jordan Richards who was a non factor most of the time, Cyrus Jones who had more value as a special teams guy, Derek Rivers who was a complete dud, Isiaiah Wynn who immediately fell apart with injuries and already was a bit undersized anyways, Sony Michel who had one decent season and we didn't value enough to keep (especially when we could have drafted Chubb at the same position who is a super elite RB that could have been a cornerstone for years), N'Keal Harry when you could have fallen ass backwards into anyone else at the position and been set for a few years in that draft, Joejuan Williams who was mid and then fell off with injuries after two years, Cole Strange who is complete garbage.... no **** the team is going to fall apart.

It's just crap to pretend the Patriots haven't had a drafting issue for a long time. Yeah other teams have issues to... the bad ones. The ones that are passing us and the consistently good ones, are actually getting far more value out of their top picks and finding more gems in later rounds.

#FireTheGroceryShopperNOW

#AndAlGroh'sKidToo

 

[captain stone]

The patriots are NOT terrible drafters; full stop.
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This is where I stopped reading.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Anyone know the story behind why Kraft wanted to take power away from Parcells in player personnel?

The list of players notable players he drafted from 1993-1995 before the power struggle in 1996:

Drew Bledsoe
Curtis Martin
Ted Johnson
Jimmy Hitchcock
Dave Wohlabaugh
Ty Law
Chris Slade
Troy Brown
Vincent Brisby

How many were Parcells picks in 1996? Very weird when you think about it.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Anyone know the story behind why Kraft wanted to take power away from Parcells in player personnel?

My recollection is that his track record bringing in his binkie free agents was terrible.

 

[RIpats88]

Other than Stevenson and that is looking iffy. Can anyone name someone on offense they would want on this team in 2 years?

Reason Bill has to go on a spending spree in 2021. Is because he had no homegrown talent he could extend. That's due to poor drafting

And next year we about to have record cap space again. With no one to spend it on.

 

[mgteich]

Just curious, exactly which analysts have rated the Pats drafts as consistently being in the top 10?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/04/14/nfl-draft-ranking-best-and-worst-teams-at-picking-players#gid=ci02bc99ec7006253f&pid=1

 

[AQPE]

Parcells had final say on personnel throughout his 4 years here with one exception. Other than the Terry Glenn pick (per Will McDonough the day after, Parcells wanted Duane Clemons in that first round) Parcells had no objection to any other pick they made. Also per McDonough (Will’s article after the Parcells move to the Green Slime was finalized) this came several months after Parcells told Kraft of his intentions to resign following the then-upcoming season. During the season Parcells put his house up for sale and made sure it was known that he bought a house on the Jersey Shore.

Parcells did a great job here building a roster, with a few Bob Kratch missteps notwithstanding. He did a similarly good job in his three years with the NYJ, not nearly as well as the HC only in Dallas, and not well at all as the player personnel guy in Miami. So much of his success I think is attributable to his skills as a teacher and motivator. As his record shows, at his peak even when George Young was the one doing the “shopping” those skills translated to great success.

So regarding Belichick, I think what we are seeing is the inevitable decline in his skills in analyzing player potential, making sure they are being taught properly and motivated well. This is not an indictment if him as a person or as one of the best to ever do it. it is the way things go for all of us beyond a certain point in our careers, especially when virtually everyone he relied on for such a long time has moved on.

It is time to go in a new direction.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Parcells had final say on personnel throughout his 4 years here with one exception. Other than the Terry Glenn pick (per Will McDonough the day after Parcells wanted Duane Clemons) Parcells had no objection to any other pick they made. Also per McDonough (Will’s article after the Parcells move to the Green Slime was finalized) this came several months after Parcells told Kraft of his intentions to resign following the then-upcoming season. During the season Parcells put his house up for sale and made sure it was known that he bought a house on the Jersey Shore.

Parcells did a great job here building a roster, with a few Bob Kratch missteps notwithstanding. He did a similarly good job in his three years with the NYJ, not nearly as well as the HC only in Dallas, and not well at all as the player personnel guy in Miami. So much of his success I think is attributable to his skills as a teacher and motivator. As his record shows, at his peak even when George Young was the one doing the “shopping” those skills translated to great success.

So regarding Belichick, I think what we are seeing is the inevitable decline in his skills in analyzing player potential, making sure they are being taught properly and motivated well. This is not an indictment if him as a person or as one of the best to ever do it. it is the way things go for all of us beyond a certain point in our careers, especially when virtually everyone he relied on for such a long time has moved on.

It is time to go in a new direct

Great post, very helpful. You are spot on that RKK backing Grier on the Terry Glenn trade was the last straw and the reason that Parcells left the Pats. To connect the dots with my previous post, the tension between RKK and Parcells due to free agent signings predated the Glenn draft setting the table for exit stage JETE.

Parcells was great at rebuilding teams and making an immediate impact. He used his outsized personality to manage expectations while keeping people entertained and happy through the tough times. BB would have benefitted by taking the Parcells approach with the press.

At this age Parcells had moved away from coaching. I think BB would like to take that step as soon as he can leave a winner with a clear succession plan that he approves.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

#FireTheGroceryShopperNOW

#AndAlGroh'sKidToo

Dude, these hash tags look like you must be at least 75 years old and have no idea how to create a hash tag LOL

 

[captain stone]

At this age Parcells had moved away from coaching. I think BB would like to take that step as soon as he can leave a winner with a clear succession plan that he approves.

Bill's Not going to leave here a winner; we all deep down should realize this now. Therefore, he should never Ever EVER have final approval of ANY succession plan here; heck he's a couple more embarrassing losses from being asked by ownership to resign his GM duties so that he can devote all his personal energy into coaching the team he himself created out of the hole into which they've dug themselves.

 

[RIpats88]

You can't be this devoid of talent on offense unless your drafts are absolutely garbage.

The reason the 2019 patriots with brady were so horrible on offense is because Bill failed at drafting talented replacements on offense.

4 years later the talent is even worse so nothing has improved on that side of the ball.

 

[Sect140]

Well, since we'll finish with the 5th pick, we'll have 2 possibilities. We can trade for Fields now if the Bears go Caleb Williams, and if they don't, we can trade for Caleb Williams.

The Patriots finally have some ammunition, which they've never had before.

If you're wondering how the Bills ended up with Josh Allen or the Phins ended up with Jaylen Waddle, it's because they were in the position the Patriots will be in this year.

It will be interesting to see how Fields plays rest of the season, he’s showed some improvement the last couple weeks.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is where I stopped reading.

If
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Jesus

 

[FCB02062]

Believe what you choose to believe. Belichick has emphasized Defense in his draft for over 20 years. Personally, I think that our Defense is fine. And yes, Belichick is also fine at acquiring mid-level talent on Defense from free agency. Of course, you left out 2020.
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THE SO-CALLED TERRIBLE DRAFTING - DEFENSE
2020
2 Dugger
2 Uche
3 Jennings

2021
2 Barmore

2022
3 Jones
4 Jones
6 Roberts

2023
1 Gonzalez
2 White
3 Mapu
7 Bolden

Yes, Bill missed sometimes, especially with injured players like Perkins and McGrone.
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of course, you left out that Bill the GM has drafted offensive players that couldn't start for Bridgewater State

 

[Toofy]

We don't even have a player who performs like duron bland from 2022 draft . 2022 is looking like 2019 now.

 

[State]

Parcells had final say on personnel throughout his 4 years here with one exception. Other than the Terry Glenn pick (per Will McDonough the day after, Parcells wanted Duane Clemons in that first round)

I remember it being Tony Brackens, the DE, that Parcells wanted.

The Big Tuna was unquestionably a better drafter by FAR than BB.

 

[State]

Dude, these hash tags look like you must be at least 75 years old and have no idea how to create a hash tag LOL

What’s a hash tag?

I’m still pissed that cars don’t have that little triangle window I can angle out for my tobacco smoke.

And I wish we’d go back to detachable collars. Most of the time I shouldn’t have to have the frau wash the shirt; rather, just send out the collar for cleaning and starching.

And I really don’t mind music coming from the AM side of the dial.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

What’s a hash tag?

I’m still pissed that cars don’t have that little triangle window I can angle out for my tobacco smoke.

And I wish we’d go back to detachable collars. Most of the time I shouldn’t have to have the frau wash the shirt; rather, just send out the collar for cleaning and starching.

And I really don’t mind music coming from the AM side of the dial.

Detachable collars are awesome.