1986 week 16 Patriots at Dolphins

[Bruins29]

You're a child I take it, just judging from the way you post.

I am who I say. Its my fault you have to hold on to the 70s so tight that you have to make dumb statements about players to do it. and now after doubling down you are tap dancing how Morgan HOF trumps WW and Irvings stats over his long career.

Thats whats funny about you old timers. When a real football discussion happens and the top all time elite to 20 WRs are discussed there will be real football people sitting around discussing this . They will bring up the slot and WW.... And maybe someday some old pats homer can be part of it. He can sit there in his Barcalounger with his Pabst Blue Ribbon and say "Hey What about Irving Fryer LMAO

 

[Bruins29]

Randy Moss is a freak.

He tagged along one day for their charity pickup basketball game. That guy easily could have played in the NBA.

I think that is the biggest Mic Drop I have ever seen on here

When APF takes Moss over a discussion about two old time Pats guys you know the truth.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That was the year I really started caring about football and was probably my favorite game ever until 2001. That team could not run... and then they could. And Grogan... the best.

Yea that was f-ed up. Worst running attack i'd ever seen.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He didn't do most of his work in New England, but look at his stats.

It's the same way we consider Rodney or Haynes as great Patriot players even though the truth is they were better elsewhere in their careers.

His talent was undeniable but in NE he didn't have his **** together at all.

Booze. Coke. Guns. Leaving the stadium in the middle of games. He was a disaster.

If he put up his MIA stats here then Top 5 for sure no question.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fryer is top 5 if we are talking numbers (obviously leaving out RBs and TEs)

Ya but not here. I can't say he was a top WR for the Patriots when his best years were in MIA.

 

[Steve102]

Moss
Morgan
Troy
Jules/Wes
Fryar
Branch
Stingley/Amendola
Gaffney/Stallworth/Cappalletti

That's how I see them all time, first very rough glance. Harold Jackson is on there somewhere. Yes, I copped out and stacked some of them on the same rank. Meh. So what.

 

[Bruins29]

Ya but not here. I can't say he was a top WR for the Patriots when his best years were in MIA.

Well, in fairness to Upstarter he did say Talented so I assume just pure talent not success as a pat or even as a player. Fryer was a pretty talented and athletic guy albeit a bit of a fukup. I just dont think anyone touches WW for what he did to define his position.

 

[upstater1]

I am who I say. Its my fault you have to hold on to the 70s so tight that you have to make dumb statements about players to do it. and now after doubling down you are tap dancing how Morgan HOF trumps WW and Irvings stats over his long career.

Thats whats funny about you old timers. When a real football discussion happens and the top all time elite to 20 WRs are discussed there will be real football people sitting around discussing this . They will bring up the slot and WW.... And maybe someday some old pats homer can be part of it. He can sit there in his Barcalounger with his Pabst Blue Ribbon and say "Hey What about Irving Fryer LMAO

I simply can't believe anyone in this world would take Welker over Morgan. That's crazy.
Look at the video in the link and see the catches Morgan is making. Welker could never do anything like that.
Morgan makes that catch against the Giants in '11.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He wouldn't because either he would have had his hand cut open by his wife or in jail for mortgage fraud.

Fryar doesn't make my list of top 5 NEP WRs. I'd even need to think about Top 10

I understand that Irving is an easy target for his off field problems, however he was also an easy target for the Pats' QB's.

I saw most of his career here, and he made plays - big plays - throughout his time here.

He should be appreciated just for his statistics, but he was a great player.

In his nine years here, with mostly Tony Eason and also including the three quarterbackless seasons ('90-'92) which the media hypes as greater 'laughingstock' material than quarter century stretches of futility by over a dozen other teams, Fryar still TODAY ranks ninth all time in receptions and sixth in receiving yards.

I'm sorry he didn't want to be part of the Parcells rebuild. Bledsoe's early stats would have been even better.

 

[Bruins29]

I simply can't believe anyone in this world would take Welker over Morgan. That's crazy.
Look at the video in the link and see the catches Morgan is making. Welker could never do anything like that.
Morgan makes that catch against the Giants in '11.

No no, WW over Fryer for me. Moss over Morgan (on talent of course)

Is that the disconnect? But lets say Fryer is more talented than WW (I dont think so but lets play it out) I think Moss more than Makes up for that discrepancy as he was the standard.

Thats all. Thats why I believe most people would chose WW/RM on talent.

As all time Pats? Different discussion.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You are starting to sound like APF with his "Bledsoe isnt in the top 10 of Pats all time QBs" and "Joe Kapp was better than Drew."

Thanks for the shout out.

Bledsoe telegraphed his passes. He had much more in common with Eason than just number 11. They both had very little football acumen.

Drew did his best and was given the opportunity to play for a long time.

I think you may be right about Kapp, but...

The main criteria I'm using is who would I start in a game I wanted to win...

Joe just was on a very poor team here in his last year playing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well, in fairness to Upstarter he did say Talented so I assume just pure talent not success as a pat or even as a player. Fryer was a pretty talented and athletic guy albeit a bit of a fukup. I just dont think anyone touches WW for what he did to define his position.

Pure talent no question.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Is that the disconnect? But lets say Fryar is more talented than WW (I dont think so but lets play it out)

Talent doesn't matter.

It's what a player does with what he has.

I got blasted for saying a lot of other guys are more talented than Brady - but Tom does the most with what he has.

I think there have been a zillion more talented players in the NBA than Bill Russell.

 

[Steve102]

I simply can't believe anyone in this world would take Welker over Morgan. That's crazy.
Look at the video in the link and see the catches Morgan is making. Welker could never do anything like that.
Morgan makes that catch against the Giants in '11.

I think you're moving the goalposts a bit. Better duo was the statement. Morgan > Welker by a lot.

 

[upstater1]

I think you're moving the goalposts a bit. Better duo was the statement. Morgan > Welker by a lot.

Uh, well, I consider Morgan and Fryar over him by a lot. Not sure how I'm moving the goalposts.

All this discussion has proved is that I rate Wes Welker much lower than several of you.

To be clear, I prefer even Edelman to him.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Tony Eason had some talent and a decent passer
He was given every opportunity to do more but he had a couple of good seasons ('84 & '86)

FIFY

Tony, like Drew, didn't do better because he wasn't better.

A close look at the Patriots of the 80's reveals that Grogan alone made a talented but otherwise run of the mill team competitive.

Grogan alone was the main reason for the Patriots' success in '85 & '86.

Credit Berry for instilling the winning mentality and innovative approach to creating turnovers.

Blame him for repeatedly starting Eason over astronomically better, healthy and active quarterbacks.

Flutie alone was the main reason for the Patriots' success in '88.

 

[italian pat patriot]

FIFY

Tony, like Drew, didn't do better because he wasn't better.

A close look at the Patriots of the 80's reveals that Grogan alone made a talented but otherwise run of the mill team competitive.

Grogan alone was the main reason for the Patriots' success in '85 & '86.

Credit Berry for instilling the winning mentality and innovative approach to creating turnovers.

Blame him for repeatedly starting Eason over astronomically better, healthy and active quarterbacks.

Flutie alone was the main reason for the Patriots' success in '88.

That s yr opinion
I still have my one

I love Grogan a lot but he was an INT machine too...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yea that was f-ed up. Worst running attack i'd ever seen.

After Hog retired, it was as a fan hard but still hilarious that every week the writers would point out that they would gain more yards if Craig James simply fell forward on every play.

But they were a different team with Grogan. He knew how to call a game.

Blindly handing off with no acuity does not help your running game.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

That s yr opinion
I still have my one

I love Grogan a lot but he was an INT machine too...

He was a INT machine (6) when he was called upon to go out there in muddy Candlestick Park with two bad knees

The polar opposite of Eason, who they only finally got rid of when he wouldn't accept a pay cut

I'm not excited about tearing him down - he, like Bledsoe, is a nice guy who did his best (and was started every time-Bledsoe with 2001 the only exception)

Grogan would have played for free

Steve signed a medical release of liability waiver before going out there in 1990 with that neck brace

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If he put up his MIA stats here then Top 5 for sure no question.

Philly too. 4 TD's in one game

Leaving the stadium in the middle of games.

Sorry but it was still funny.

Reminds me of the doctor who stepped out of the OR in the middle of a surgery to go take out cash from an ATM

He was a disaster.

He still made many clutch plays, I guess I remember them so vividly because I watched obsessively.

He & Steamer made Eason look good, but Grogan knew how to utilize those guys the most.

His talent was undeniable but in NE he didn't have his **** together at all.

Poor timing with that domestic spat right before the AFCCG.

I remember in the locker room in the midst of the celebration, Roland James hugging Irving for what seemed like an eternity (replacing Fryar on punt returns, Roland fumbled twice).

But, I have to point out that Bill Russell got stabbed badly in the arm by his mistress before the seventh game against LA one year.

"Let's see if you can win a championship now!!!" What an angel. Can't blame Russ at all though, as she was just a freak in the sack.

Media made up a story about him getting some inoculations for an upcoming trip to Africa. Of course, the Celtics still won anyway, although it hurt like hell.

I can't throw stones