Who will be the new OC?

[DaBruinz]

So...who has he hired as a coordinator from the jump other than Pees? That was my whole point SMH. The guys you're giving were brought in as position coaches. Hell, Bielema and Schiano should have been brought in with the idea of being the DC. Never got that job though.

YOU have no damn point. That's the problem. You keep changing what you're saying. Both the previous asinine posts of yours that I responded to claimed that Belichick didn't like to hire from "outside the organization" or "outside the family". You made ZERO reference to talking about Coordinator positions until after you got shown that your take was WRONG. The fact of the matter is that Belichick HAS gone outside the organization to hire Coordinators (Bill O'Brien, Schiano, Pees). Just because you don't like the facts doesn't change that they are facts.

SCHIANO DID get the job. He was the DC for a month before realizing how much MORE it would take at the PRO level. That's when he turned in his papers to "retire". BIELEMA was hired as the DL Coach. He chose to move on instead of being promoted within the Patriots. Jedd Fisch would have been the eventual successor to McDaniels except Fisch got offered the HC job at the University of Arizona.

Hell, if you want to get technical, then Brad Seely was an "OUTSIDE" hire since Seely wasn't in Belichick's coaching family. Belichick retained Seely after Carroll was fired. Seely was the ST Coordinator. Scott O'Brien was hired to replace Seely without having to move up through the ranks. Granted, he was Belichick's ST's Coordinator with the Browns from 1991-1995 so that could be considered an "in the family" hire.

If Judge is literally the best OC they can get because he doesn't question Bill or will just have the title but Bill runs the plays then this team is in trouble. Please hire an outside OC if this is the case.

You're smoking too much crack if you think that the people Bill hires don't question or challenge Bill. That's the trope of the imbecile brigade who also believe that Belichick doesn't hold his kids to a HIGHER standard. That Belichick has never been challenged by the likes of Patricia, McDaniels, etc. Despite EVERY BOOK written by Holley about the Patriots giving example after example of people challenging BB and NOT being "Yes" men.

 

[Ring 6]

So...who has he hired as a coordinator from the jump other than Pees? That was my whole point SMH. The guys you're giving were brought in as position coaches. Hell, Bielema and Schiano should have been brought in with the idea of being the DC. Never got that job though.

It’s the way he does things. He brings coaches in at lower levels and trains them, increased responsibilities and develops them into larger roles.
It’s worked awfully well. Why question it?

 

[mgteich]

It’s the way he does things. He brings coaches in at lower levels and trains them, increased responsibilities and develops them into larger roles.
It’s worked awfully well. Why question it?

We're talking about bringing in a coach to develop.

We have no OC, no DC, no quarterbacks coach, and I think no TE coach.

Our need is not in finding developing coaches that can lead in 2023 or 2024.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

YOU have no damn point. That's the problem. You keep changing what you're saying. Both the previous asinine posts of yours that I responded to claimed that Belichick didn't like to hire from "outside the organization" or "outside the family". You made ZERO reference to talking about Coordinator positions until after you got shown that your take was WRONG. The fact of the matter is that Belichick HAS gone outside the organization to hire Coordinators (Bill O'Brien, Schiano, Pees). Just because you don't like the facts doesn't change that they are facts.

SCHIANO DID get the job. He was the DC for a month before realizing how much MORE it would take at the PRO level. That's when he turned in his papers to "retire". BIELEMA was hired as the DL Coach. He chose to move on instead of being promoted within the Patriots. Jedd Fisch would have been the eventual successor to McDaniels except Fisch got offered the HC job at the University of Arizona.

Hell, if you want to get technical, then Brad Seely was an "OUTSIDE" hire since Seely wasn't in Belichick's coaching family. Belichick retained Seely after Carroll was fired. Seely was the ST Coordinator. Scott O'Brien was hired to replace Seely without having to move up through the ranks. Granted, he was Belichick's ST's Coordinator with the Browns from 1991-1995 so that could be considered an "in the family" hire.



You're smoking too much crack if you think that the people Bill hires don't question or challenge Bill. That's the trope of the imbecile brigade who also believe that Belichick doesn't hold his kids to a HIGHER standard. That Belichick has never been challenged by the likes of Patricia, McDaniels, etc. Despite EVERY BOOK written by Holley about the Patriots giving example after example of people challenging BB and NOT being "Yes" men.

Read the initial post which mentions coordinators. In fact all of my posts mention bringing coaches in as coordinators. You still didn't mention anything to refute my point. The fact you're more or less the only one jumping on it on a forum full of Patriots fans says something about your point. Also Bill O Brien was not hired as a coordinator, he was brought in to work with the QBs from Duke and worked his way up.

Schiano as the DC was never confirmed by the team or Bill and was only mentioned by Schiano. Bielema also claimed the same damn thing. Neither got the job. Schiano left. Should he have been named the DC right away? Absolutely. As far as I'm concerned though without that title he wasn't the DC.

By the way...you had a former SEC head coach on the defensive staff and who was in charge of running most of the defense? Steve Belichick.

Its common knowledge that Belichick loves hiring from within and has since he was with the Browns. Nothing to raise the blood pressure about. If Judge gets named the OC it reinforces this point.

 

[ralmat55]

Oh aren’t you the liberal. Don’t like what someone says do you call them a name. Thanks for proving you are a moron.

I am actually very liberal on many issues. I try to see things in flesh and blood rather than dollars and cents. I try to understand that addressing people’s emotions is often more important than empirical arguments. You should really try the latter sometime.

With that said, I owe you an apology as I was totally out of line in my previous post.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

It’s the way he does things. He brings coaches in at lower levels and trains them, increased responsibilities and develops them into larger roles.
It’s worked awfully well. Why question it?

I question it with a 2nd year QB and a defense that looked brutal the last 5 games. Steve Belichick is running the defense (even though hes not the coordinator) so something needs to change there. Who is going to work with Mac? It was different when Brady was here. They need a real OC, not a collection of a couple assistants that need to "prove" themselves. Very risky move with a young QB if he goes that route again.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be kinda nice every once in a while if Bill hired a position coach who, gee I don't know, maybe actually played the position before, or at least FUC-KING COACHED IT SOMEWHERE ELSE BEFORE FUC-KING COMING HERE?

 

[Ross12]

I’ve felt this was the most likely thing all along and bringing judge in reinforces my belief.

Yeah, I wasn’t really leaning any particular way, just considered Lombardi to be one option. Judge’s addition points me toward thinking that’s the likely outcome: an offensive “timeshare” where Lombardi is the OC without the title, without handling all of the duties of the OC but maybe 70% of them, and leaning on other guys like Judge to help fill in the other 30%, as well as smooth out his departure from the WR coach role and make sure Troy Brown can be the primary guy in that role also. I do wonder a bit who the “QB coach” is but honestly it’s probably just Hoyer who will still be on the roster.

 

[Ring 6]

We're talking about bringing in a coach to develop.

We have no OC, no DC, no quarterbacks coach, and I think no TE coach.

Our need is not in finding developing coaches that can lead in 2023 or 2024.

Lombardi moves to QB coach
Judge coaches WR
Caley remains TE coach
Sunsieri is Rb coach
The are already in development

 

[Ring 6]

I question it with a 2nd year QB and a defense that looked brutal the last 5 games. Steve Belichick is running the defense (even though hes not the coordinator) so something needs to change there. Who is going to work with Mac? It was different when Brady was here. They need a real OC, not a collection of a couple assistants that need to "prove" themselves. Very risky move with a young QB if he goes that route again.

The defense was outstanding until Buffalo. Most people are saying it was a personell issue. That sounds like a well coached overachieving defense that ran into a team that overwhelmed their talent.
What do you think a “real coordinator” would do differently with the offense?

 

[venecol]

Yeah, I wasn’t really leaning any particular way, just considered Lombardi to be one option. Judge’s addition points me toward thinking that’s the likely outcome: an offensive “timeshare” where Lombardi is the OC without the title, without handling all of the duties of the OC but maybe 70% of them, and leaning on other guys like Judge to help fill in the other 30%, as well as smooth out his departure from the WR coach role and make sure Troy Brown can be the primary guy in that role also. I do wonder a bit who the “QB coach” is but honestly it’s probably just Hoyer who will still be on the roster.

Who calls the plays? Aside from Judge nobody has play calling experience.

 

[upstater1]

A comment about the new ignore feature: it's trippy. I read some posts and I'm like, "What is he going on about?" LOL. And then I can only imagine the conversations. I am simultaneously confused and thankful.

 

[upstater1]

About Belichick and outsiders coaching for him, remember that Dante Scarnecchia and Ivan Fears were holdovers from the Carroll era.

 

[The Trickster]

Reading this thread, it appears that BB is an idiot with no knowledge of football.

Thank 'god' we were lucky in going to all those Superbowls.

 

[upstater1]

I have to assume that the Kraft's will go for continuity and hire an insider when Belichick retires, since it is the smart play after all. Almost every big retirement went that way, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Parcells (almost, heh!), etc.

So, who are the candidates?

McDaniels is out of the conversation now. He will either be WITH the Raiders when Belichick retires or else a 2x loser.

I shudder to think it's Patricia or Judge since they really lost control of things at those ballclubs, which--granted--were colossal messes. Patricia had more of a chance since he was given actual power. Judge was undercut by the admin with every move. But still...

I think Bill O'Brien may be going his own way and will never come back.

Brian Flores would've been a really good possibility but it is totally unknown whether he'll ever coach in the NFL again.

Vrabel will be at Tennessee for a very long time.

Who are we left with?

Jerod Mayo, Joe Judge, Matt Patricia, or Tom Brady?

The choices seem very very limited, just 3 people really.

 

[p8ryts]

I have to assume that the Kraft's will go for continuity and hire an insider when Belichick retires, since it is the smart play after all. Almost every big retirement went that way, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Parcells (almost, heh!), etc.

So, who are the candidates?

McDaniels is out of the conversation now. He will either be WITH the Raiders when Belichick retires or else a 2x loser.

I shudder to think it's Patricia or Judge since they really lost control of things at those ballclubs, which--granted--were colossal messes. Patricia had more of a chance since he was given actual power. Judge was undercut by the admin with every move. But still...

I think Bill O'Brien may be going his own way and will never come back.

Brian Flores would've been a really good possibility but it is totally unknown whether he'll ever coach in the NFL again.

Vrabel will be at Tennessee for a very long time.

Who are we left with?

Jerod Mayo, Joe Judge, Matt Patricia, or Tom Brady?

The choices seem very very limited, just 3 people really.

Steve Belichick. I don't like the idea of not naming a coordinator. I like to know who I'm blaming.

 

[venecol]

I have to assume that the Kraft's will go for continuity and hire an insider when Belichick retires, since it is the smart play after all. Almost every big retirement went that way, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Parcells (almost, heh!), etc.

So, who are the candidates?

McDaniels is out of the conversation now. He will either be WITH the Raiders when Belichick retires or else a 2x loser.

I shudder to think it's Patricia or Judge since they really lost control of things at those ballclubs, which--granted--were colossal messes. Patricia had more of a chance since he was given actual power. Judge was undercut by the admin with every move. But still...

I think Bill O'Brien may be going his own way and will never come back.

Brian Flores would've been a really good possibility but it is totally unknown whether he'll ever coach in the NFL again.

Vrabel will be at Tennessee for a very long time.

Who are we left with?

Jerod Mayo, Joe Judge, Matt Patricia, or Tom Brady?

The choices seem very very limited, just 3 people really.

GM: Fat Matt
HC: Little Steven
OC: Joe Judge
DC: Brian Belichick

Belichick Era Part Deux

 

[upstater1]

Steve Belichick. I don't like the idea of not naming a coordinator. I like to know who I'm blaming.

NO, that won't work

 

[upstater1]

GM: Fat Matt
HC: Little Steven
OC: Joe Judge
DC: Brian Belichick

Belichick Era Part Deux

While the Kraft's have given Belichick carte blanche as they should have, they are also very unsentimental people. They are not given really to sticking it out with Brady if the braintrust (correctly) thinks it will hold them back from rebuilding, nor do they risk offending the power structures in the NFL that will put a bullseye on the team.

This is why I believe they would never go for a set-up like the one above.

If Bill B. is really thinking about a future as HC for his son, he could make it mighty uncomfortable for the Krafts by declaring himself GM and installing his son.

That would be a dilemma. But Bill also risks damaging his legacy if he does that.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

About Belichick and outsiders coaching for him, remember that Dante Scarnecchia and Ivan Fears were holdovers from the Carroll era.

Didn't Dante and Fears coach for Parcells too?