OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[Bruins29]

You can't tangibly measure clutchness, decision-making, and accuracy (because of different eras)...I am just giving my layperson's opinion on the two players. On the field, they both look the same to me. This is all that I am talking about. I'd venture to say that if JM played in today's NFL and if his career doesn't get cut short due to injuries he'd have more than 4 lombardis.

I see. So if it’s so much easier to play in todays game why aren’t there other QB winning Lombardi’s at record pace then over and over

With the lone exception being this Brady guy who almost doubled what Montana did in an NFL that is intentionally structured to make it even harder to do this ?

 

[VectorPrime]

I honestly didn’t think there would be anyone who isn’t a 75 year old bitter 49ers fan who’d still try and argue that Montana has a case for being the GOAT. Are there any 95 year olds saying that Otto Graham would dominate in today’s league?

 

[Bruins29]

I honestly didn’t think there would be anyone who isn’t a 75 year old bitter 49ers fan who’d still try and argue that Montana has a case for being the GOAT. Are there any 95 year olds saying that Otto Graham would dominate in today’s league?

I hope not. Thsi discussion is sheer lunacy.

Montana might not even be in the Mount Rushmore of NFL players with guys like Brady, Rice, LT and Peyton, Brown etc contending.

Brady is solidly on the MR of team sport athletes.

When you are in the same category of Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan/Russell you have no peer.

 

[0818NePa]

Not much has changed with Mahomes. He is the same type of player we saw in 2018-2019. Just regression toward the mean. And still a very high mean.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, you're either really slow or you just like arguing for the sake of arguing. You are comparing accomplishments, which is not what I am talking about. I clarified what I said in my original remark about what I personally meant by "GOAT" and you are just redefining it to mean something else.

Accomplishments are the basis of evaluating players.
Again, if Brady’s accomplishments are clearly and indisputably superior there must be some aspect of Montana that is superior in order to overcome the enormous difference in the proof of what they did on the field to elevate Montana to equal.
Let me put it another way. What Montana did on the field doesn’t come close to what Brady did, there is no possible way to argue it does. So how are they equal?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I see. So if it’s so much easier to play in todays game why aren’t there other QB winning Lombardi’s at record pace then over and over

With the lone exception being this Brady guy who almost doubled what Montana did in an NFL that is intentionally structured to make it even harder to do this ?

Both players won 4 lombardis in their first 16 years in the NFL and 3 super bowl MVPs along with two regular season MVPs. Montana then retired. Brady kept going because he was able to.

 

[Ring 6]

I hope not. Thsi discussion is sheer lunacy.

Montana might not even be in the Mount Rushmore of NFL players with guys like Brady, Rice, LT and Peyton, Brown etc contending.

Brady is solidly on the MR of team sport athletes.

When you are in the same category of Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan/Russell you have no peer.

Mount Rushmore, GREAT TOPIC. Mine, while reserving the right to change my mind.
BRADY
LT
JIM BROWN
RICE

and I really want to leave Rice out and replace him with a defensive player, but I can’t pick which one

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I hope not. Thsi discussion is sheer lunacy.

Montana might not even be in the Mount Rushmore of NFL players with guys like Brady, Rice, LT and Peyton, Brown etc contending.

Brady is solidly on the MR of team sport athletes.

When you are in the same category of Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan/Russell you have no peer.

No one is saying Montana deserves to be on the Mt Rushmore of athletes or even NFL players

 

[Bruins29]

No one is saying Montana deserves to be on the Mt Rushmore of athletes or even NFL players

So you agree he isn’t in the same category as Brady.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Accomplishments are the basis of evaluating players.
Again, if Brady’s accomplishments are clearly and indisputably superior there must be some aspect of Montana that is superior in order to overcome the enormous difference in the proof of what they did on the field to elevate Montana to equal.
Let me put it another way. What Montana did on the field doesn’t come close to what Brady did, there is no possible way to argue it does. So how are they equal?

Brady played much of his career in the shotgun, while Montana was exclusively under center. Plus the 49ers were a 50/50 run-pass team while from 2007 to 2021 Brady's teams were much more pass oriented. Montana played with Rice for 6 years, while Brady played with Gronk for 11 years. Montana was superb in the super bowl, while Brady was superb but also made a few mistakes (INTs, intentional grounding, strip sack, etc). You simply cannot compare their stats.

 

[Bruins29]

Both players won 4 lombardis in their first 16 years in the NFL and 3 super bowl MVPs along with two regular season MVPs. Montana then retired. Brady kept going because he was able to.

Yea and kept winning in a league designed to make it tougher to win and he won with less talent. And two different team to boot

Glad we agree

 

[Bruins29]

Brady played much of his career in the shotgun, while Montana was exclusively under center. Plus the 49ers were a 50/50 run-pass team while from 2007 to 2021 Brady's teams were much more pass oriented. Montana played with Rice for 6 years, while Brady played with Gronk for 11 years. Montana was superb in the super bowl, while Brady was superb but also made a few mistakes (INTs, intentional grounding, etc). You simply cannot compare their stats.

I see. So you can’t use super bowls so when pressed for something else (which dose not fit your agenda) you can’t use that either. Can’t use wins as that is a stat ?

Let me guess - eye test is what matters ?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I see. So you can’t use super bowls so when pressed for something else (which dose not fit your agenda) you can’t use that either. Can’t use wins as that is a stat ?

Let me guess - eye test is what matters ?

I can use super bowl winning percentage or super bowl passer ratings if you'd like...

 

[Bruins29]

I can use super bowl winning percentage or super bowl passer ratings if you'd like...

Sure. Cherry pick whatever thing you want. Go full ridiculous. This will be fun

 

[Ring 6]

Brady played much of his career in the shotgun, while Montana was exclusively under center. Plus the 49ers were a 50/50 run-pass team while from 2007 to 2021 Brady's teams were much more pass oriented. Montana played with Rice for 6 years, while Brady played with Gronk for 11 years. Montana was superb in the super bowl, while Brady was superb but also made a few mistakes (INTs, intentional grounding, strip sack, etc). You simply cannot compare their stats.

There is no comparison.
Montana is the clear #2 but no one with any knowledge, insight, or lack of bias would ever consider him equal to Brady.

 

[Bruins29]

I can use super bowl winning percentage or super bowl passer ratings if you'd like...

If you use Brady getting to super bowls or even AFCCGs against him, trust me you have lost the argument - badly

 

[Ring 6]

I can use super bowl winning percentage or super bowl passer ratings if you'd like...

Great let’s talk about SB winning %.
Are you arguing that Brady getting to the SB and losing it makes him worse than Montana losing earlier in the playoffs and never getting there?

You just told me you can’t compare statistics now you want to throw in passer rating?
Your argument is crap, and you know it.

 

[skinnydog]

How did this thread become Brady vs Montana? And yes, last years Super Bowl did kind of break Mahoney. Yhe Tampa defense last year did a great job of staying away from single high safeties because that’s an open invitation to let Hill run around and catch 40 yard passes. So they played a high safety to the side Hill lined up on and used a safety just a little deep to Kelsey’s side who watched both Kelsey and kept an eye on Hill running deep crossing routes. They rushed 4 and generally kept Mahoney in the pocket. Frustrated the hell out of Mahoney. This years O-line was better, and Mahomes did a much better job of taking what was there underneath, but he really does not want to play that way. He’s much better when Hill can run free for a couple huge gains and seemed to crumble last week when that wasn’t working in the second half.

 

[Guts]

Great let’s talk about SB winning %.
Are you arguing that Brady getting to the SB and losing it makes him worse than Montana losing earlier in the playoffs and never getting there?

You just told me you can’t compare statistics now you want to throw in passer rating?
Your argument is crap, and you know it.

He soften his anti-Brady stance since he retired, but at this point you just look like a hater if you would consider another QB over Tom. To be fair to him he said it was his opinion. My opinion we can argue the top football player of all time sure, but not the Quarterback.

 

[Ring 6]

He soften his anti-Brady stance since he retired, but at this point you just look like a hater if you would consider another QB over Tom. To be fair to him he said it was his opinion. My opinion we can argue the top football player of all time sure, but not the Quarterback.

It’s fine to have an opinion but if you are going to present it as a good one, you have to be able to support it in some reasonable kind of way. His reason is I don’t count all the characteristics of greatness and just pick who I like.