Bill Belichick's coaching tree

[Pape]

What I remember about Kingsbury is something like, he didn't prepare for a game (didn't bother learning the gameplan) and when he went in, he didn't know what he was doing.

Anyone remember that?

Kingsbury played in the first preseason game of 2003, that's it as far as his New England playing time went

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Not hard to be a great coach when you get the top recruits every year. I remember Saban in the NFL, it wasn't pretty when he had to coach with a level playing field.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Yeah he was never actually a coach in NE, but it was in NE with BB & staff where he was first exposed to real professional coaching. I have a hard time believing that spending all year as a rookie QB with the '03 Patriots didn't lay part of the foundation for his future coaching career.

After Kingsbury was hurt / put on IR in 2003 BB put him to work as an offensive quality control coach... So BB literally did start his coaching career

Isn't this a slight reach?

 

[Pape]

Isn't this a slight reach?

its an entry level coaching job... entails breaking down film,team projects, game prep and practice prep... and getting coffee and donuts as well... so no, its not a reach to say he started under BB... he spent a season doing that...

call it what you want, I call it a starting point...

 

[Brotherblues]

Isn't this a slight reach?

He was a smart kid who spent the whole year in a SB winning squad with apparently not much to do except observe how everything worked. Not gonna say that makes him a legit part of some tree or whatever, just that it definitely had an impact.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What's interesting is Bill's GM/scouting tree:






A parting comment from Flores was his high regard for Belichick's messaging consistency, and we know Belichick is HUGE on messaging, as indicated by his praise of coaches he has worked under who he felt were incredible at it. This is in lockstep with creating a culture.

So while Bill might not be super effective at passing on coaching prowess, he certainly seems to impart knowledge on the organizational side of things.

For all the **** he gets there's like 10-12 teams that use the same scouting system we do. I think Nagy mentioned it a while ago. I know we've had some stinkers but drafting prospects isn't easy at all. I've been recording my grades, researching, looking back on drafts for over 10 years and it's very difficult being consistently good.

Also to OP. Saban has to count for something. All time great in college, top 5 easy. Pros didn't work out but it might not have been the right time. Timing is everything. Also Saban might be the all-time go-to for secondary / coverage talk. Even over Bill. Another one on the other side is Ozzie. One of the all-time best upstairs.

 

[Pape]

Not hard to be a great coach when you get the top recruits every year. I remember Saban in the NFL, it wasn't pretty when he had to coach with a level playing field.

He never posted a losing season in college football as a HC ... the only reason why 2007 shows a mark of 2-6 is because 5 wins were vacated by the NCAA.

 

[amfootball]

I don't know if this got mentioned in the thread or not but I believe the biggest reason Bill does not have a great coaching tree is because he does not have a system to impart. He is a game specific coach who builds his team to be versatile season to season so he can spin the dial and come up with the most effective game plans each week. Of course that was all helped by having the GOAT QB who could run anything for him but that is only one side of the ball. He did the same thing on defense. So when it comes to teaching his assistants, he does not have a singular system to teach them but more of a philosophy and that is really hard to duplicate.

 

[SouthernPatriot]

Not hard to be a great coach when you get the top recruits every year. I remember Saban in the NFL, it wasn't pretty when he had to coach with a level playing field.

You have to be winner to recruit winners. The best players in the nation are not going to go play for losing programs.
There are a lot a winning programs recruiting for a select number of skill players, as a recruiter you have to have something that will make them want to go to your school over the other winning school.

 

[amfootball]

You have to be winner to recruit winners. The best players in the nation are not going to go play for losing programs.
There are a lot a winning programs recruiting for a select number of skill players, as a recruiter you have to have something that will make them want to go to your school over the other winning school.

For sure. But let's not compare winning in college vs the NFL. Saban is the best college coach. Sure. But he is not on the map compared to successful NFL coaches.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

For sure. But let's not compare winning in college vs the NFL. Saban is the best college coach. Sure. But he is not on the map compared to successful NFL coaches.

Being the best college coach ever is pretty good though

 

[TheRainMaker]

Damien Woody and Darelle Revis said it best. BB views players and coaches as just a cog in his machine. The problem is that the coaches that keep getting hired from the tree don’t stand out or aren’t known for anything other than looking good with Bill.

 

[gobesmug]

I don't know if this got mentioned in the thread or not but I believe the biggest reason Bill does not have a great coaching tree is because he does not have a system to impart. He is a game specific coach who builds his team to be versatile season to season so he can spin the dial and come up with the most effective game plans each week. Of course that was all helped by having the GOAT QB who could run anything for him but that is only one side of the ball. He did the same thing on defense. So when it comes to teaching his assistants, he does not have a singular system to teach them but more of a philosophy and that is really hard to duplicate.

That's a great way of looking at it.

Also that philosophy doesn't work on a lot of players, which is why Bill has always put a priority on drafting high character team captains in the draft over the more physically talented players.

Perhaps that's where a lot of his coaches fail. They take over a team with a lot of vets that don't have the mentality to work under Bill's coaching philosophy.

Bill failed in Cleveland and was failing in NE until he got enough of his guys to buy into his philosophy and succeed.

That's not a knock against Bill to need the right players because literally every coach ever needs the right players to fit their system.

Bill needs players to be unselfish and work towards a common goal. Other coaches allow and have thrived allowing elite vets to freelance.

 

[rochrist]

Not hard to be a great coach when you get the top recruits every year. I remember Saban in the NFL, it wasn't pretty when he had to coach with a level playing field.

He didn't really give it enough time to prove anything at all one way or the other.

 

[SouthernPatriot]

For sure. But let's not compare winning in college vs the NFL. Saban is the best college coach. Sure. But he is not on the map compared to successful NFL coaches.

I think I was very clear to say , I know the article was about NFL coaches and that Saban was not an NFL coach, but the best college coach was part of BB tree. That was really all I said, not sure why you had to take the route you did?

 

[SouthernPatriot]

He never posted a losing season in college football as a HC ... the only reason why 2007 shows a mark of 2-6 is because 5 wins were vacated by the NCAA.

And a lot of those were also due to him coming into Bama after Shula who left the cupboard bare! The 2007 class he inherited put 7 players in the NFL compare to the 2010 that were all his recruits that put 29 players into the NFL.
Shula was a great guy, but not a good HC. In his last season at Bama he went 6-7 with wins against Hawaii, Vandy, Louisiana-Monroe, Duke, Ole Miss, and FIU.

 

[amfootball]

He didn't really give it enough time to prove anything at all one way or the other.

He quit after 2 seasons to go to Bama. He realized the NFL was not for him.

 

[tasmlab]

It's not really BB's job to develop coaches for other teams.

Belichick is getting ripped in the media for not producing HCs in his tree after the firing of both Flores and Judge.

 

[upstater1]

He coached at Ohio State first for a few years. I would put his coaching tree from back there if we are being serious about how a tree is actually assembled.

OK, he learned how to coach at Ohio State, not his many years with Belichick, O'Brien and Crennel.

 

[amfootball]

OK, he learned how to coach at Ohio State, not his many years with Belichick, O'Brien and Crennel.

He played for Bill. He did not coach for him. They are two different things. His coaching tree began back at Ohio State and then through the Texans.