Black Monday thread: the NFL Coaching Carousel

[RobertWeathers]

Ross’ judgment aside, the point was Flores was hired to coach the dolphins and the result wasn’t SUCCESS, really in no reasonable definition.
I don’t think any owner would make a hire defining them expectations as successful being 24-25, no playoffs and discord among the management team.

Thats fine but you can't put his judgment aside if you want to unearth the real problem in MIA. He's owned the Dolphins for 12 years. Hes had 6 coaches and none of them have lasted longer than 3 years. Hes burned though 3 GMs.

Hes the problem. Drop BB in there and the problem is still there and not going away.

 

[Ring 6]

Thats fine but you can't put his judgment aside if you want to unearth the real problem in MIA. He's owned the Dolphins for 12 years. Hes had 6 coaches and none of them have lasted longer than 3 years. Hes burned though 3 GMs.

Hes the problem. Drop BB in there and the problem is still there and not going away.

My comments revolve around comments that Flores tenure was a success or failure, not excuses, reasons, justifications etc.
I’d also question the hiring quality because none of the other 3 (can’t really count the 2 interim replacements) look like bad firings or had success elsewhere.
But it’s fine if we don’t agree.

 

[RobertWeathers]

My comments revolve around comments that Flores tenure was a success or failure, not excuses, reasons, justifications etc.
I’d also question the hiring quality because none of the other 3 (can’t really count the 2 interim replacements) look like bad firings or had success elsewhere.
But it’s fine if we don’t agree.

I understand your rebuttal to the statement you commented on. Point taken.

I don't think Flo was ever set up for success nor do I think his owner knows what it takes to succeed in the NFL.

 

[venecol]

...as if Ross knows what that looks like.

You view Ross as credible to pass such judgement. Thats fine.

To me he's nothing of the sort.

But hes the owner and can do whatever he wants.

Honestly, it's petty of Ross to throw Flo under the bus like that. Flo probably told him to GFY. At least I hope he did.

 

[venecol]

I understand your rebuttal to the statement you commented on. Point taken.

I don't think Flo was ever set up for success nor do I think his owner knows what it takes to succeed in the NFL.

You won't win the argument, despite it being well known throughout the NFL this had Zero to do with Flo's performance or coaching ability. This was a power struggle and owner chose the GM.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Honestly, it's petty of Ross to throw Flo under the bus like that. Flo probably told him to GFY. At least I hope he did.

Flo strikes me as the kind of guy who would

 

[Scotty]

A new day , any other coaches on a tightrope ?

 

[Bill Lee]

...as if Ross knows what that looks like.

You view Ross as credible to pass such judgement. Thats fine.

To me he's nothing of the sort.

But hes the owner and can do whatever he wants.

I don't know Ross at all, but did a bit of reading. He's pretty much a self made guy in the real estate development world and has something like 2,000 people working for him. I would think he'd know a bit about organizational dynamics.

I think his problem is more that he just doesn't know football very well. If he did, he'd find a GM that could work with someone as bright as Flores and help him work through any issues he has with collaboration. Instead he took the word of someone with a pretty dubious football record who seems to be good at managing up but not very good at football.

I don't think Flo was ever set up for success nor do I think his owner knows what it takes to succeed in the NFL.

We're in agreement on this.

 

[Bill Lee]

Worth re-posting:

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know Ross at all, but did a bit of reading. He's pretty much a self made guy in the real estate development world and has something like 2,000 people working for him. I would think he'd know a bit about organizational dynamics.

I think his problem is more that he just doesn't know football very well. If he did, he'd find a GM that could work with someone as bright as Flores and help him work through any issues he has with collaboration. Instead he took the word of someone with a pretty dubious football record who seems to be good at managing up but not very good at football.


We're in agreement on this.

Yep. I'm in no position to question Ross' business acumen. He has my respect in that area.

What I can question is how he runs his team relative to their success on the field. He clearly isn't doing something right. I do wonder about the organizational dynamics skill. He clearly missed on assuming Grier and Flo would work well together. I also don't know if he misjudged other GM/HC dynamics under his watch. I also have no idea what kind of culture he fosters. Parcells has his own narcissistic tendencies but he didn't have too many nice things to say about Ross after he left.

 

[Bill Lee]

Yep. I'm in no position to question Ross' business acumen. He has my respect in that area.

What I can question is how he runs his team relative to their success on the field. He clearly isn't doing something right. I do wonder about the organizational dynamics skill. He clearly missed on assuming Grier and Flo would work well together. I also don't know if he misjudged other GM/HC dynamics under his watch. I also have no idea what kind of culture he fosters. Parcells has his own narcissistic tendencies but he didn't have too many nice things to say about Ross after he left.

All strong points. My main area of pushback is that it must be hard to figure out how a relationship will work just based on some interviews and some consults before making the decision to hire someone. As you said before, though, as owner he can do what he wants, and IMO he's getting it wrong sticking with Grier. The reading I did says he's an absentee owner who only shows up in MIA on game days. It seems he has a comfort level with Grier and probably doesn't want to make a change just because he's comfortable with that relationship. Well, if it's looking at results, he should look at how Herbert is doing vs Tua.

 

[Scotty]

 

[venecol]

Serious question: why do we think Little Steven isn't being mentioned in any of these interviews? He's the defacto DC for the #2 scoring D in the NFL.

 

[Bill Lee]

Serious question: why do we think Little Steven isn't being mentioned in any of these interviews? He's the defacto DC for the #2 scoring D in the NFL.

Is that a good way to sum up our defense after they could not get big stops in the IND and MIA games?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Serious question: why do we think Little Steven isn't being mentioned in any of these interviews? He's the defacto DC for the #2 scoring D in the NFL.

BBs son. They won't touch him.

 

[Scotty]

BBs son. They won't touch him.

Would think he has to leave eventually and make his name elsewhere.

 

[Steve102]

Would think he has to leave eventually and make his name elsewhere.

I would certainly hope so. I wouldn't want to follow Bill, much less follow Bill and have his name. All set.

 

[venecol]

BBs son. They won't touch him.

Because they don't think Bill would let him go? It's not like other teams haven't been poaching coordinators from Bill's staff forever. There must be another reason.

 

[venecol]

Is that a good way to sum up our defense after they could not get big stops in the IND and MIA games?

Teams are interviewing Mayo, so that's not an excuse.

 

[venecol]

Would think he has to leave eventually and make his name elsewhere.

Maybe for a college?