Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[pats99]

Really? I would take McVay over him in a heartbeat.

You mean this McVay who said this after losing the superbowl to the Patriots.

Rams coach Sean McVay: “I never enabled us to get in a rhythm offensively...but Todd is healthy...I got outcoached tonight.”

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You mean this McVay who said this after losing the superbowl to the Patriots.

Rams coach Sean McVay: “I never enabled us to get in a rhythm offensively...but Todd is healthy...I got outcoached tonight.”

So after Bill says “we were outcoached” after literally every loss, that’s also a fact?

“We were out-coached, out-played, out-everything’d, really,” Belichick said after the Patriots’ 24-3 loss Thursday.

Bill Belichick, Patriots out-coached by Rams in biggest game of the season

The Patriots defense allowed touchdowns at the start of each half, reflections of Sean McVay’s upper hand in Thursday’s Super Bowl rematch.

www.bostonherald.com

Maybe this will get you to consider an honest argument and not a ******** one, but I won’t hold my breath. What’s next, Tom Brady says Aaron Rodgers is the best QB, so therefore that’s true?

Jesus, Team Bill is a clown show. I guess we need to go hire Doug Pederson or Tom Coughlin, based on this unbreakable argument.

 

[Ian]

You mean this McVay who said this after losing the superbowl to the Patriots.

Rams coach Sean McVay: “I never enabled us to get in a rhythm offensively...but Todd is healthy...I got outcoached tonight.”

He's a young guy who is pretty good, he just wasn't up to the level he needed to be that night. The biggest question is whether or not he'll continue growing or fizzle out. The fact he parted with Goff was probably the most surprising - and gutsiest - move I've seen so far and I hated it at the time (I've been vocal about my doubt in Stafford). But, that being said, it's been one of the bigger surprises and I'm curious to see where he stands 5-years from now.

Not putting him in Belichick's category, but I'm also not passing judgment on a guy who is only 35-years old.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He's a young guy who is pretty good, he just wasn't up to the level he needed to be that night. The biggest question is whether or not he'll continue growing or fizzle out. The fact he parted with Goff was probably the most surprising - and gutsiest - move I've seen so far and I hated it at the time (I've been vocal about my doubt in Stafford). But, that being said, it's been one of the bigger surprises and I'm curious to see where he stands 5-years from now.

Not putting him in Belichick's category, but I'm also not passing judgment on a guy who is only 35-years old.

I’m not saying McVay > Belichick, but I just find it annoying to say (a) Belichick out-coached McVay in SB53, and (b) that game has any bearing on the question.

Both coaches put together some really impressive defensive game plans in that SB. Those offenses were both expected to approach 30 points. The game was 3-3 in the fourth quarter. Jared Goff missed a wide open, easy touchdown pass in the third quarter when the Patriots secondary missed an assignment. Then Goff threw that horrendous interception when the Rams were driving at the end. Brady made the pinpoint throw to Gronk.

I just think it’s disingenuous to say “McVay! But Belichick out-coached him!!” because of a media standard quote from McVay, even though every coach says he was out-coached when his team loses. And the Rams shellacked the Patriots last year, too.

It doesn’t matter because McVay isn’t coming to the Patriots. I just think it’s another one of those selective bias arguments where arguments are cherry picked. We all know Doug Pedersen isn’t half the coach as Belichick even though he out-coached him in one game.

Anyway, I don’t think many people are arguing that Bill isn’t still a good Xs and Os coach. Of course he is. The issues are other areas of the organization that have been falling behind that are supposed to be his responsibility, and the idea that you can’t delegate to someone else because of his requirement of full team control. That’s such a huge job to oversee everything with the team. Like anyone, as you age, you tend to lose to your peak capabilities.

 

[pats99]

So after Bill says “we were outcoached” after literally every loss, that’s also a fact?

“We were out-coached, out-played, out-everything’d, really,” Belichick said after the Patriots’ 24-3 loss Thursday.

Bill Belichick, Patriots out-coached by Rams in biggest game of the season

The Patriots defense allowed touchdowns at the start of each half, reflections of Sean McVay’s upper hand in Thursday’s Super Bowl rematch.

www.bostonherald.com

Maybe this will get you to consider an honest argument and not a ******** one, but I won’t hold my breath. What’s next, Tom Brady says Aaron Rodgers is the best QB, so therefore that’s true?

Jesus, Team Bill is a clown show. I guess we need to go hire Doug Pederson or Tom Coughlin, based on this unbreakable argument.

THat clown show got you 6 titles in 20 years. Will take a clown like that anytime.

 

[sb1]

THat clown show got you 6 titles in 20 years. Will take a clown like that anytime.

0 titles without his all universe QB…who is no longer here

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

THat clown show got you 6 titles in 20 years. Will take a clown like that anytime.

The clown show is the dishonest argument made to prove a point. If you think Bill is a better option to build a team than McVay, that’s fine. If you think your point about McVay saying “I was out-coached” in SB53 carries some kind of weight in this discussion, that’s ridiculous.

 

[pats99]

0 titles without his all universe QB…who is no longer here

Tom Brady was not an all universe QB in 2002. Don't get me wrong I think Tom Brady is the goat, but he wasn't back then. He was fighting off the narrative of a system qb in those early years. He averaged about 1.2 TD a game his first playing season, accurate and efficient not exactly the all universe QB. But he was young and was just getting his feet wet. The pats won the superbowl beating the 14 pts favorite St Louis Rams, that was coming in there averaging 31 pts a game. Bill's team held them to 17. They had 427 yards to pats 267, had 26 first downs to pats 15. In that game your all universe Brady had 145 yds and 1 TD and for me the most magical of drives of put Vinateri in postion to kick that field goal. The had starters at skill positions WR David Patten, RB Antowain Smith, cmon, Antowain Smith !! They beat the Greatest Show on Turf on ~ turf ~ !!

Yeah you are right that is an unfair point about McVay saying he was out-coached, as Belichick has said that himself. But I grow weary of hearing that Belichick was just another ~ clown~ coach and all the Pats success when was because of Tom Brady, and yes using your own words "that is ridicuolus" Fate would bring them together and something very special happend. Both goats in my opinion.

I am one of the few here that was glad when Tom Brady left the patriots when he did. After 6 titles I wanted to see to see what Bill and Tom could do without each other. Yeah Tom went to a team that had a insane amount of talent and won, instead of playing on a cap strapped pats team that was probably the least talented over the last twenty years, trust me I couldn't be happier for him. Don't count Belichick out he is going to be back. He's got a qb that resembles a lot like the one he had in 2002. Fans just need to have some patience.

 

[captain stone]

THat clown show got you 6 titles in 20 years. Will take a clown like that anytime.

That was Then... This is Now.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Belichick is exceptional at building contenders.
No other coach/GM has come close to that in the salary cap Era.

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

What are all you "fire BB" jerkoffs gonna say when this team is contending again...possibly later this season..."I knew it all along"?
Ungrateful/spoiled tossers.
Only took one losing season to see you all turn on him.

 

[Pats1971]

Tom Brady was not an all universe QB in 2002. Don't get me wrong I think Tom Brady is the goat, but he wasn't back then. He was fighting off the narrative of a system qb in those early years. He averaged about 1.2 TD a game his first playing season, accurate and efficient not exactly the all universe QB. But he was young and was just getting his feet wet. The pats won the superbowl beating the 14 pts favorite St Louis Rams, that was coming in there averaging 31 pts a game. Bill's team held them to 17. They had 427 yards to pats 267, had 26 first downs to pats 15. In that game your all universe Brady had 145 yds and 1 TD and for me the most magical of drives of put Vinateri in postion to kick that field goal. The had starters at skill positions WR David Patten, RB Antowain Smith, cmon, Antowain Smith !! They beat the Greatest Show on Turf on ~ turf ~ !!

Yeah you are right that is an unfair point about McVay saying he was out-coached, as Belichick has said that himself. But I grow weary of hearing that Belichick was just another ~ clown~ coach and all the Pats success when was because of Tom Brady, and yes using your own words "that is ridicuolus" Fate would bring them together and something very special happend. Both goats in my opinion.

I am one of the few here that was glad when Tom Brady left the patriots when he did. After 6 titles I wanted to see to see what Bill and Tom could do without each other. Yeah Tom went to a team that had a insane amount of talent and won, instead of playing on a cap strapped pats team that was probably the least talented over the last twenty years, trust me I couldn't be happier for him. Don't count Belichick out he is going to be back. He's got a qb that resembles a lot like the one he had in 2002. Fans just need to have some patience.

yeah so much to pick on here. First...QB's in 2001 are a lot different now with stats. Brady's success is becuase he is consistent, he is consistent in everything he does. That wins. Stats and how many yards you have while you lost by 30 because you played bad in the first 3 quarters is not why you win. The entire team changed when he took over. You just said it, the pats didnt have skill positions and Brady was still able to pull it out. Brady went to a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. I am not sure how many times I have said this and people still dont know it. They were 7-9 the year before, nobody talked about them, nobody thought they were anything. Brady didnt pick them, they were the team that offered him a contract, so he didnt go through 20 teams and pick the bucs. Nobody said Bill was a clown, but its hard to argue with Bill's record with and without Brady. Its not made up, it exists. Brady took a major chance by leaving the pats. If he failed he would have hurt his legacy, people would use it to throw the BS of Bill made him forever and ever. Brady took that chance and it paid off for him. and it was Bills chance to win without him to quiet that....he hasnt. As far as Jones, lets actually let him play a season before we compare him to Brady, I mean enough of that ****, it sounds stupid.
Wait....brady threw a forward pass in 2002, and Jones threw a forward pass that means they are the same? Woot 20 years of superbowls. Enough. Let him have somewhat of a career firsrt, hell let him play a playoff game.

 

[Pats1971]

Belichick is exceptional at building contenders.
No other coach/GM has come close to that in the salary cap Era.

You can already check the box for "replace franchise QB".

What are all you "fire BB" jerkoffs gonna say when this team is contending again...possibly later this season..."I knew it all along"?
Ungrateful/spoiled tossers.
Only took one losing season to see you all turn on him.

What if they are not contending? Brady has not been replaced. Because you cant replace him. You can have a guy play his position and hope to win enough to do something some day. I mean BB didnt create him in a lab. Bill sat at 15, and he fell to him, that is not some genius move. Had someone taken him I am sure the cry would be, ah, well Bill didnt want him anyway. The Pats are an average team right now. They have won 3 games against bottom feeding teams. So lets hold off on superbowl talk for a bit.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Like you said, time to show some patience.

 

[amfootball]

With all the thrashing of Bill Belichick, at times, makes me feel Bill if he could just get up and walk away from this team. Teams would be scrambling to hire him. He probably would be out of a job for like 10 minutes. For those so anxious to replace him, curious as to who you would prefer to see (available or not) coach this team

You think teams would rush to hire a 70 year old coach?

 

[archstanton543]

yeah so much to pick on here. First...QB's in 2001 are a lot different now with stats. Brady's success is becuase he is consistent, he is consistent in everything he does. That wins. Stats and how many yards you have while you lost by 30 because you played bad in the first 3 quarters is not why you win. The entire team changed when he took over. You just said it, the pats didnt have skill positions and Brady was still able to pull it out. Brady went to a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. I am not sure how many times I have said this and people still dont know it. They were 7-9 the year before, nobody talked about them, nobody thought they were anything. Brady didnt pick them, they were the team that offered him a contract, so he didnt go through 20 teams and pick the bucs. Nobody said Bill was a clown, but its hard to argue with Bill's record with and without Brady. Its not made up, it exists. Brady took a major chance by leaving the pats. If he failed he would have hurt his legacy, people would use it to throw the BS of Bill made him forever and ever. Brady took that chance and it paid off for him. and it was Bills chance to win without him to quiet that....he hasnt. As far as Jones, lets actually let him play a season before we compare him to Brady, I mean enough of that ****, it sounds stupid.
Wait....brady threw a forward pass in 2002, and Jones threw a forward pass that means they are the same? Woot 20 years of superbowls. Enough. Let him have somewhat of a career firsrt, hell let him play a playoff game.

If both men were abducted by aliens tomorrow and never heard from again, they both will be inducted into Canton and will have statues of them built at 1 Patriot Place. Their legacy's are secure and there's virtually nothing that can happen that will tarnish them that would hurt their chances of being regarded as two of the best people at their job in football history.

 

[pats99]

That was Then... This is Now.

yeah so much to pick on here. First...QB's in 2001 are a lot different now with stats. Brady's success is becuase he is consistent, he is consistent in everything he does. That wins. Stats and how many yards you have while you lost by 30 because you played bad in the first 3 quarters is not why you win. The entire team changed when he took over. You just said it, the pats didnt have skill positions and Brady was still able to pull it out. Brady went to a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. I am not sure how many times I have said this and people still dont know it. They were 7-9 the year before, nobody talked about them, nobody thought they were anything. Brady didnt pick them, they were the team that offered him a contract, so he didnt go through 20 teams and pick the bucs. Nobody said Bill was a clown, but its hard to argue with Bill's record with and without Brady. Its not made up, it exists. Brady took a major chance by leaving the pats. If he failed he would have hurt his legacy, people would use it to throw the BS of Bill made him forever and ever. Brady took that chance and it paid off for him. and it was Bills chance to win without him to quiet that....he hasnt. As far as Jones, lets actually let him play a season before we compare him to Brady, I mean enough of that ****, it sounds stupid.
Wait....brady threw a forward pass in 2002, and Jones threw a forward pass that means they are the same? Woot 20 years of superbowls. Enough. Let him have somewhat of a career firsrt, hell let him play a playoff game.

yeah so much to pick on here. First...QB's in 2001 are a lot different now with stats. Brady's success is becuase he is consistent, he is consistent in everything he does. That wins. Stats and how many yards you have while you lost by 30 because you played bad in the first 3 quarters is not why you win. The entire team changed when he took over. You just said it, the pats didnt have skill positions and Brady was still able to pull it out. Brady went to a team that had not won a playoff game in 18 years. I am not sure how many times I have said this and people still dont know it. They were 7-9 the year before, nobody talked about them, nobody thought they were anything. Brady didnt pick them, they were the team that offered him a contract, so he didnt go through 20 teams and pick the bucs. Nobody said Bill was a clown, but its hard to argue with Bill's record with and without Brady. Its not made up, it exists. Brady took a major chance by leaving the pats. If he failed he would have hurt his legacy, people would use it to throw the BS of Bill made him forever and ever. Brady took that chance and it paid off for him. and it was Bills chance to win without him to quiet that....he hasnt. As far as Jones, lets actually let him play a season before we compare him to Brady, I mean enough of that ****, it sounds stupid.
Wait....brady threw a forward pass in 2002, and Jones threw a forward pass that means they are the same? Woot 20 years of superbowls. Enough. Let him have somewhat of a career firsrt, hell let him play a playoff game.

> Nobody said Bill was a clown.
Actually someone did, just a few takes above this one.

> Brady didnt pick them they were the team that offered him a contract,
Do you really think that Brady at age 43 after 6 titles was just going to go to any team ? So if the Jets offered him a contract before the Bucs, Tom would have taken it ?

>If he failed he would have hurt his legacy, people would use it to throw the BS of Bill made him forever and ever.
Not me, like I said they were and still are the goats in my opinion. I never got this whole Brady or Bill thing...

> As far as Jones, lets actually let him play a season before we compare him to Brady, I mean enough of that ****, it sounds stupid.
First there is never going to be another Tom Brady, his achievments ~ at the very least ~, will stand for a very, very long time. I never said Mac Jones was going to be Tom Brady. What I said is that he ~ "resembles" ~ that same young Tom Brady. Young 2002 Tom was unathletic, immobile and didn't have that arm that he has today. His strengths were his consistency, accuracy and his mind. He wasn't tossing TDs left and right, like i said just a fraction over one TD a game. Sounds familar. And thats a fair comparison to what we have seen with young Mac Jones.

I get it, we hate to mention Mac Jones in the same sentence as Tom Brady, but I think its ok to say he ~ resembles ~ 2002 Tom in terms of playing style. These days any QB who is smart with the football, isn't athletic, and does not have a howitzer of an arm has a "low ceiling". Well that my be true but it didn't work out too bad for Brady did it.

 

[sb1]

Tom Brady was not an all universe QB in 2002. Don't get me wrong I think Tom Brady is the goat, but he wasn't back then. He was fighting off the narrative of a system qb in those early years. He averaged about 1.2 TD a game his first playing season, accurate and efficient not exactly the all universe QB. But he was young and was just getting his feet wet. The pats won the superbowl beating the 14 pts favorite St Louis Rams, that was coming in there averaging 31 pts a game. Bill's team held them to 17. They had 427 yards to pats 267, had 26 first downs to pats 15. In that game your all universe Brady had 145 yds and 1 TD and for me the most magical of drives of put Vinateri in postion to kick that field goal. The had starters at skill positions WR David Patten, RB Antowain Smith, cmon, Antowain Smith !! They beat the Greatest Show on Turf on ~ turf ~ !!

Yeah you are right that is an unfair point about McVay saying he was out-coached, as Belichick has said that himself. But I grow weary of hearing that Belichick was just another ~ clown~ coach and all the Pats success when was because of Tom Brady, and yes using your own words "that is ridicuolus" Fate would bring them together and something very special happend. Both goats in my opinion.

I am one of the few here that was glad when Tom Brady left the patriots when he did. After 6 titles I wanted to see to see what Bill and Tom could do without each other. Yeah Tom went to a team that had a insane amount of talent and won, instead of playing on a cap strapped pats team that was probably the least talented over the last twenty years, trust me I couldn't be happier for him. Don't count Belichick out he is going to be back. He's got a qb that resembles a lot like the one he had in 2002. Fans just need to have some patience.

Can’t compare stats back then to today. Different era of the game.

Nobody says BB is a clown coach. Any intelligent fan knows BB is one of the all time greats. But it’s clear that great QB >>>>> great coach. 6 titles in 20 years was a lot more Brady than it was Belichick. Coaches aren’t on the field winning those games, players are. And great QB’s have carried their team to do great things. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a Super Bowl and Caldwell is not a great coach at all. Bill Belichick one of the all time greats had a losing season last year and there’s a half decent chance he’ll make it 2 in a row this year. That says nothing about Belichick as a coach but it does shatter a couple of myths that Bill had a magical system here that makes QBs and teams great and Bill can win with anyone. No he didn’t and no he can’t.

 

[yukon cornelius]

0 titles without his all universe QB…who is no longer here

he carried the over-rated parcells to 2 titles

 

[203Pat]

I like what I've seen out of Mac so far but to check the box and say he is our future for the next decade seems a little premature.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I like what I've seen out of Mac so far but to check the box and say he is our future for the next decade seems a little premature.

Agree 100%

I need to see him perform in the playoffs.

I wasn't truly sold on Tom until after the Snow Bowl.