Brian Flores

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Belichick was not the defensive coordinator by title when he first worked for the Pats in 96 for Parcells, that was Al Groh. Flores could easily be brought back as a position coach or with a different title and still have an important role. I don't think Miami should give up on him so quickly after the complete teardown they asked him to manage.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Belichick was not the defensive coordinator by title when he first worked for the Pats in 96 for Parcells, that was Al Groh. Flores could easily be brought back as a position coach or with a different title and still have an important role. I don't think Miami should give up on him so quickly after the complete teardown they asked him to manage.

For clarity, BB was already a 2-time champion DC in the 80's with the Giants. He was HC of Cleveland and was then left hanging when Cleveland moved to Baltimore and the team went into a ditch. So the fact he didn't have the actual title is more minor semantics due to how he transitioned back to Parcells.

.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It’s certainly not looking good unless Watson trade happens and he plays this year. I think Flores get next year to get it right.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Who's the DC, Steven or Jerod? Or neither?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jesus, don't tell DKF that.

@DropKickFlutie learning Josh McDaniels is the head coach successor.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

@DropKickFlutie learning Josh McDaniels is the head coach successor.

Meme game is strong.


My blood pressure did rise a bit just thinking about this hypothetical scenario.

 

[Simpelton]

Do you think his reputation (as an HC) has been tarnished to the point that no other team would want him for the top spot?

No. The general consensus is that Flores is a good HC and the issues in miami come more from bad scouting and bad ownership. Similar to Belichick in Cleveland. Flores has plenty of stock as an HC since the Dolphins have been notably better in general since he took over from Gase.

If he washes out of Miami, he'll get offers from other teams. Heck, with a rumor in the wind of friction between MIA and Flores, teams like Vegas or Detroit that are definitely in the market for head coaches going forward may still be sending out feelers to his agent even if he's not fired. His reputation is as a coach that can organize his team and make them play as a unit. Even if the overall numbers aren't great that's still a desirable skillset.

 

[jimnance]

It’s certainly not looking good unless Watson trade happens and he plays this year. I think Flores get next year to get it right.

There is no way in hell Watson plays this year. Miami would be stupid to not keep Flores through at least next year. But then, thats never stopped them before.
Flores will eventually be a top hc somewhere in the nfl.

 

[captain stone]

I'd take him back as a consultant...and see what happens with Jerod Mayo in the off-season. Mayo did interview for the Philly job, IIRC.....

Mayo's not really a serious candidate for the position of HC in the NFL right now.

 

[captain stone]

There is no way in hell Watson plays this year. Miami would be stupid to not keep Flores through at least next year. But then, thats never stopped them before.
Flores will eventually be a top hc somewhere in the nfl.

Miami & Houston have 6 days to figure out both Watson's civil suit status (he doesn't want to settle) and the mindset of Stokoe (is an exempt list/suspension forth-coming?)... The trade parameters have supposedly already been agreed-upon...

 

[ralmat55]

Who's the DC, Steven or Jerod? Or neither?

Greg Bedard of “Boston Sports Journal” reported last week that sources had told him that Mayo is in charge of getting the right personnel on the field and Spiccoli Belichick handles the play calling. This has been the arrangement since Bill stepped aside from overseeing the defense halfway through the 2019 season.

This was reported in a column where Bedard argued that it was time for Belichick to take back control over the defense again after the 3 and 24 play against the Cowboys.

Bedard hasn’t reported on it since that I’ve seen or heard. But, is it possible Bill took back oversight of the defense against the Jets? The operation seemed smoother Sunday than it has in a long time. There were no 10 or 12 men on the field situations. The play calling seemed a little more coherent and aggressive as well. I also noticed a scheme change on passing downs where they lined up 2 DTs over the center and guards rather than just 1 as they had been doing resulting in a sack for the DLman activated from the PS and a couple of pressures from Barmore.

it’s something to watch going forward. Of course, it could have been that they were just playing the Jets.

 

[venecol]

Miami & Houston have 6 days to figure out both Watson's civil suit status (he doesn't want to settle) and the mindset of Stokoe (is an exempt list/suspension forth-coming?)... The trade parameters have supposedly already been agreed-upon...

Yea, I can't see this trade going through. Not enough time to get #1 resolved by then. Ross obviously spent a lot of time with Goondell at the owners mtg and probably has a good sense of where the suspension will be but it's telling what Roger said after the meeting about Watson (they won't get involved during case, police investigations).

 

[Kontradiction]

They’d be pretty dumb to fire him since he’s the first coach to successfully change the culture around there since Jimmy Johnson. But if they do, I’d say yes. Bring a forklift in and haul Patricia’s fat ass out of the building. Drop him off at the closest Asian fusion all-you-can-eat buffet.

 

[tasmlab]

Miami and Flores were praised for their rebuild approach starting in 2019 when he was hired:
- Year 1: Let the bad contracts clear out, sign nobody new, still get a few wins with a terrible roster and scrappy play
- Year 2: Draft franchise QB in round 1, add key pieces through draft and FA
- Year 3: Go 1-6 (?)

(Does this sound familiar?)

 

[zydecochris]

Miami and Flores were praised for their rebuild approach starting in 2019 when he was hired:
- Year 1: Let the bad contracts clear out, sign nobody new, still get a few wins with a terrible roster and scrappy play
- Year 2: Draft franchise QB in round 1, add key pieces through draft and FA
- Year 3: Go 1-6 (?)

(Does this sound familiar?)

The plan was fine, and even if still young and inexperienced, Flores wasn't a bad choice to carry it out. The problem in the plan was:

- Year 1: That went pretty well under Flores mostly according to plan.
- Year 2: They added some key pieces that worked out OK at first, not so well later, but with a bunch of extra first and second round picks from the Tunsil trade GM Grier almost completely whiffed on the picks (particularly with the OL picks) which blew up the plan. For the franchise QB, they drafted what was considered a generational QB before injuries and gambled he would re-gain his pre-injury form. This wasn't an unreasonable pick, and I still think Tua could be successful in the right system, but the pick look terrible in retrospect because they passed on what ended up being a true generational QB right under their nose in Justin Herbert.
- Year 3: Everything goes to heck. The defense inexplicably completely melts down, the free agent additions and most of the past draft picks don't pan out, and Grier trades the 12th overall pick and their 2022 first rounder to go up to 6 overall where they pick Waddle, a trade that looks horrible now that the 2022 first rounder looks like it will be gold. Predictably the owner (who changes strategies like others change neckties) has decided to completely abandon the original strategy and trade a bunch of high picks for Watson, despite the fact that almost all of the Fins problems lie elsewhere (defense and OL).

So: I think the original plan was fine but the GM Grier messed up most of the picks and free agent additions and the owner has now completely bailed out on the original plan.

 

[Sicilian]

The plan was fine, and even if still young and inexperienced, Flores wasn't a bad choice to carry it out. The problem in the plan was:

- Year 1: That went pretty well under Flores mostly according to plan.
- Year 2: They added some key pieces that worked out OK at first, not so well later, but with a bunch of extra first and second round picks from the Tunsil trade GM Grier almost completely whiffed on the picks (particularly with the OL picks) which blew up the plan. For the franchise QB, they drafted what was considered a generational QB before injuries and gambled he would re-gain his pre-injury form. This wasn't an unreasonable pick, and I still think Tua could be successful in the right system, but the pick look terrible in retrospect because they passed on what ended up being a true generational QB right under their nose in Justin Herbert.
- Year 3: Everything goes to heck. The defense inexplicably completely melts down, the free agent additions and most of the past draft picks don't pan out, and Grier trades the 12th overall pick and their 2022 first rounder to go up to 6 overall where they pick Waddle, a trade that looks horrible now that the 2022 first rounder looks like it will be gold. Predictably the owner (who changes strategies like others change neckties) has decided to completely abandon the original strategy and trade a bunch of high picks for Watson, despite the fact that almost all of the Fins problems lie elsewhere (defense and OL).

So: I think the original plan was fine but the GM Grier messed up most of the picks and free agent additions and the owner has now completely bailed out on the original plan.

It's like the old Mike Tyson quote: "Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Every rebuilding team has a plan until they have a run of busts amongst their high picks. That has a way of derailing any plan, which makes teams tend to scramble and wing it. If the Dolphins do trade three firsts for Watson, while that move may work out, it most certainly is them reacting to their failed plan and getting bailed out a bit. It also could blow up in their face because it's not like Watson had universal team success in Houston. If the team around him is garbage, Watson isn't going to single handedly elevate them. And with even fewer picks to use to get that supporting cast, the task just gets harder for the Dolphins.

 

[zydecochris]

It's like the old Mike Tyson quote: "Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Every rebuilding team has a plan until they have a run of busts amongst their high picks. That has a way of derailing any plan, which makes teams tend to scramble and wing it. If the Dolphins do trade three firsts for Watson, while that move may work out, it most certainly is them reacting to their failed plan and getting bailed out a bit. It also could blow up in their face because it's not like Watson had universal team success in Houston. If the team around him is garbage, Watson isn't going to single handedly elevate them. And with even fewer picks to use to get that supporting cast, the task just gets harder for the Dolphins.

That quote: "No Plan survives first contact with the enemy”, has been attributed to Carl von Clausewitz, Dwight Eisenhower, and Douglas MacArthur, and probably they were quoting others before them, but I agree that Mike Tyson's version of it about being punched in the mouth is by far the best version

 

[Sicilian]

That quote: "No Plan survives first contact with the enemy”, has been attributed to Helmuth von Moltke, Carl von Clausewitz, Dwight Eisenhower, and Douglas MacArthur, and probably they were quoting others before them, but I agree that I think Mike Tyson's version of it about being punched in the mouth is by far the best version

Fantastic context, thank you!

 

[jimnance]

Miami & Houston have 6 days to figure out both Watson's civil suit status (he doesn't want to settle) and the mindset of Stokoe (is an exempt list/suspension forth-coming?)... The trade parameters have supposedly already been agreed-upon...

Cap'n I just cant see all these issues getting resolved that quick. Particularly Miami getting assurances from the NFL before the ongoing criminal investigation is complete. Dont see that happening. Could be a PR nightmare for the league and the top owners wont allow it imo.

 

[jimnance]

They’d be pretty dumb to fire him since he’s the first coach to successfully change the culture around there since Jimmy Johnson. But if they do, I’d say yes. Bring a forklift in and haul Patricia’s fat ass out of the building. Drop him off at the closest Asian fusion all-you-can-eat buffet.

One can only hope