Belichick still greatest of all time coach?

[DropKickFlutie]

I still say the first three Super Bowl seasons were more Belichick than Brady and the last three were more Brady than Belichick. But either way, Belichick is still the greatest of all time and that will never be in doubt.

2018 the Pats defense gave up the fewest points ever allowed in a Superbowl. And 2014 they lose for sure without the Malcolm Butler defensive miracle. On the flip side they win in 2017 if they make just 1 defensive stop.

 

[thecore762]

BB already has a solid legacy. As a coach he might be the greatest.
Without Brady we all knew it was going to be painful and slow rebuild.
Right now the issue lies with the o-line. Hire a new o-line coach. Time to also get some talent on that o-line. Every QB would get killed behind that line. Gotta fix the issue asap before it’s too late and you get another QB career cut short due to hits. Look at the Colts…they didn’t take their o-line issues seriously and Andrew Luck had to call it quits.
Without a decent o-line you aren’t going to win any games or even make it to the playoffs.

At this point I’d say just keep running the ball. We are putting way too much on the plate for Mac. Throwing 50+ times for a rookie is a recipe for disaster. McDaniels needs to get his head out of his ass or be fired after this season.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[NFL Mystique]

Still the greatest coach. Yes.

6 SB wins in 9 trips

13 AFC title games

Holding Rams to 3 points

 

[amfootball]

I think his GM skills are lacking though.

I have been saying this for years. Brady carried an inferior roster for years. Now we are seeing all the warts surface.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Bill is the greatest coach ever that’s not debatable.

Bill the GM, it’s debatable. I think that half the teams he built would not have made the playoffs without Brady and would have losing records.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Nope that won’t hurt his case.

Only thing that hurts his legacy is Spygate but other than that his legacy is set.

Clearly he’s not the same without Brady but that’s not unusual. Any all time great coach isnt the same either without their all time great QB and history has shown that.

Spygate only hurts his legacy in the eyes of the ill-informed and the haters, or the ill-informed haters. Those people either don’t know that taping opponents signals was legal at the time, or know it but ignore that fact because it doesn’t serve their agenda.

The vet head coaches who don’t have an ax to grind and who coached in the 80s and 90s have consisteny said that it was a nothing scandal.

 

[Rob0729]

2018 the Pats defense gave up the fewest points ever allowed in a Superbowl. And 2014 they lose for sure without the Malcolm Butler defensive miracle. On the flip side they win in 2017 if they make just 1 defensive stop.

I am not just talking about the Super Bowls themselves. I am talking about the entire seasons and whether or not they get to the Super Bowl or not on top of the Super Bowl themselves. In 2018 and 2014, you don't get to the Super Bowl without Brady. And Brady was awesome against the Seahawks in the Super Bowl.

 

[farn]

Greatest coach of alltime.

Greatest GM of alltime.

Don't pretend his GM skills are lacking. Other alltime GMs couldn't even keep winning when they practically OWNED the players they acquired. Did BB have more success early on ? Sure. When other GMs saw the way BB did it, they adapted and he now fights with his former lieutenants for the talent he wants. Perfection ? No. I am still waiting for someone on this board to name 5 GMs that are historically better than BB.

 

[Rob0729]

Greatest coach of alltime.

Greatest GM of alltime.

Don't pretend his GM skills are lacking. Other alltime GMs couldn't even keep winning when they practically OWNED the players they acquired. Did BB have more success early on ? Sure. When other GMs saw the way BB did it, they adapted and he now fights with his former lieutenants for the talent he wants. Perfection ? No. I am still waiting for someone on this board to name 5 GMs that are historically better than BB.

He isn't the greatest GM of all time. For most of his time as the head of this team, he has been a great GM finding cast offs and over the hill players who thrive in the Pats' system. But he has been horrible at the draft in recent years. And he has made some big missteps on personnel.

There are at least a few GMs like Ozzie Newsome or Carmen Policy that I would put ahead of Belichick in GM category.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

He isn't the greatest GM of all time. For most of his time as the head of this team, he has been a great GM finding cast offs and over the hill players who thrive in the Pats' system. But he has been horrible at the draft in recent years. And he has made some big missteps on personnel.

There are at least a few GMs like Ozzie Newsome or Carmen Policy that I would put ahead of Belichick in GM category.

Exactly. Like I said previously having the GOAT for 20 years helps hide some of the mistakes he did in the past. Bill’s coaching and Brady carried bad teams to places they shouldn’t have been. It is my opinion that over the last 20 years half the teams Bill build would not have made the playoffs with a lesser QB than Brady.

My biggest knock I have against Bill the GM is to think that he could have won with anybody at QB with a bunch of cast off players on offense

 

[farn]

He isn't the greatest GM of all time. For most of his time as the head of this team, he has been a great GM finding cast offs and over the hill players who thrive in the Pats' system. But he has been horrible at the draft in recent years. And he has made some big missteps on personnel.

There are at least a few GMs like Ozzie Newsome or Carmen Policy that I would put ahead of Belichick in GM category.

I don't think you can come up with many more names and those are debatable as well. I'll be looking into their histories to further familiarize myself with your candidates' choices over the years.

 

[farn]

Exactly. Like I said previously having the GOAT for 20 years helps hide some of the mistakes he did in the past. Bill’s coaching and Brady carried bad teams to places they shouldn’t have been. It is my opinion that over the last 20 years half the teams Bill build would not have made the playoffs with a lesser QB than Brady.

My biggest knock I have against Bill the GM is to think that he could have won with anybody at QB with a bunch of cast off players on offense

Because every single team that has had a transcendant QB was able to fill the hole asap after their departure ?

 

[Uptown]

Mods..

 

[NFL Mystique]

Belichick himself said you don't win without great players. And he's been on record saying that Brady is the GOAT.

Once both are retired, I think everyone may get a clearer picture of who was more responsible. But by no means is Sunday night the deciding factor imo. It's game 4 of a 17 game schedule.

 

[Tottie]

He's locked in as the best coach of this era and most likely all time no matter what he does. Doesn't change the fact that players play and these debates that occur here will never reside on the side of team Bill. I read the transcript of his morning interview and the wolves will be out this week. I was looking forward to this game but I think that may change.

 

[Tottie]

Exactly. Like I said previously having the GOAT for 20 years helps hide some of the mistakes he did in the past. Bill’s coaching and Brady carried bad teams to places they shouldn’t have been. It is my opinion that over the last 20 years half the teams Bill build would not have made the playoffs with a lesser QB than Brady.

My biggest knock I have against Bill the GM is to think that he could have won with anybody at QB with a bunch of cast off players on offense

To my knowledge he never said that himself, it's a media driven narrative and one made by delusional people here. I suppose there was a leak a few years ago from a 'coaching source' saying they could win with any decent QB. Hard to say how legit that is.

 

[Pats2000]

Nope that won’t hurt his case.

Only thing that hurts his legacy is Spygate but other than that his legacy is set.

Clearly he’s not the same without Brady but that’s not unusual. Any all time great coach isnt the same either without their all time great QB and history has shown that.

And Spygate was some manufactured BS. Does Payton's legacy take a hit for Bountygate? Or do the Redskins or Cowboys have to deal with Uncapped Year Gate? It's stupid.

 

[Tottie]

And Spygate was some manufactured BS. Does Payton's legacy take a hit for Bountygate? Or do the Redskins or Cowboys have to deal with Uncapped Year Gate? It's stupid.

None of those things hurt any of those coaches. It's amazing how people think how they feel impacts the severity of the situation. Spygate was nothing. The media has made a living off blowing up anything Pats. Brady articles twice a day. This week probably 10 days a day. They have even turned some of us against each other.

 

[Pape]

I have been saying this for years. Brady carried an inferior roster for years. Now we are seeing all the warts surface.

here's the issue I have with this take:

• The rosters he built are responsible for winning multiple super bowl titles on both ends of the Dynasty.
• The new collection of players will take time to jell as a team. The additions to the roster were good - it will take time to fine tune them
• He had to replace the greatest ever to play the game - that in and of itself is a herculean task
• The talent drain from this team over the past few seasons has been enormous - just think of all the players and coaches we have lost in free agency, retirement or who were outright released over the past few seasons. Think BB is missing Ernie? Scar? Yeah, me too...
• Last year was a 100% reset and we still won 7 games with cam newton - that's just good all around coaching
• Is now running a true rookie QB - There is a learning curve in this league... we are just starting on it.
• The warts in the Patriots rebuilding process are magnified by the successes of Brady in Tampa - because 50% (or more) of the fan base has followed Felger and his ilk down a divisive and damaging path. We used to be a solid to the core fanbase... anyone remember defend the wall? yeah that **** got torched by a dragon... and are now divided and bickering among ourselves about who's more responsible for "past glories". WTF??? Newsflash - the Patriots climbed those mountains as a TEAM.
• No one seems to want to acknowledge that Brady landed in the perfect situation, arriving on a team that had all but one piece in place. Good to excellent skill positions, a solid defense, decent special teams and a coaching staff willing to accommodate his skill set and personnel demands (ok, maybe people have - I don't rightly read much of anything in the TB12 sub forum, so I can't honestly say that... its more hyperbole on my part)
• It was never all Brady. Never.

This is a young team. This team is making a lot of rookie mistakes. This team is still missing pieces on both offense and defense. It is unreasonable to make the assumption that the rebuilding process is just a swap in and swap out plug and play system. There are going to be good games and, much like yesterday, there will be ugly games. But in the end I saw a team that did not give up. They fought. They played hard, if not smart. Its up to the coaches to combine those two elements. BB says it all the time - Players play. If by the end of the season we start to see the hard & smart combine (Do your job / Do your job well) we will have our answer about his coaching ability and whether or not he should still be considered one of if not the best coaches ever.

And if, as believe it to be, that happens, watch out league, because the Patriots will be players again.