PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 7 Training Camp Thread- Wednesday August 4th

[DaBruinz]

Slater is 35 and Bethel is 30. Further, we’re probably going to utilize a lot of 11, 12, and 21 personnel this season unless injuries hit at TE. Harry doesn’t contribute to ST, so IF the team is going to keep 5 WRs on the active roster, it’s a pretty easy assumption to make that the 5th would need to be able to contribute to ST. Wilkerson’s also gotten more and more reps with the starting O as camp has gone on.

Could you show where where I said anything about Harry in the conversation? I didn't. I was talking about Wilkerson and your claim that he was going to be one of the main gunners this year.

So what if Slater is 35. He was an ALL-PRO Special Teamer last year and continues to be one of the best Special Teams players in the league. And Justin Bethel is right up there with Slater as one of the best in the league. Wilkerson has to show that he's better than either Bethel or Slater to get that position. And I don't see it happening this year. Could he become the heir apparent? Sure. Could he end up getting shot this season if one of Bethel or Slater get hurt? Yep. But it's very unlikely he makes the team as a Gunner out of Camp because of who is in front of him.

No. It's not a "pretty easy assumption" unless you decide to ignore reality. Wilkerson is 4th at the Gunner position, at best. He's the 6th or 7th WR on the team currently. He's behind Bourne, Agholor, Meyers, and Olszweski at the very least. He's also behind Harry based on what's been tweeted. Brandon King also cut his teeth as a gunner before all his injuries. Haven't heard anything about him, camp wise. No, I don't expect Kingon the 53, but he was there at the Gunner position at one point.

Umm.. Wilkerson hasn't gotten more and more reps with the Starting O as camp has gone on. ALL the WRs have rotated through with Cam and Mac throwing to them. You're attempting to make Wilkerson's participation more than it actually is.

 

[Steve102]

I don't think its anywhere as complex or at least should be for these guys as you appear to think. I have coached 12 year old up to 15 year old kids with play calls in our offense close to or as long as that. Everyone has to know what they are doing. The play call tells them that, the QB has to know what everyone is doing. He should of been doing this since at least high school, if not sooner.

This is one of the bigger issues when highly QBs come out of of simplified or dumber down High School and College offenses. They can't get by with sheer talent or athleticism alone in the NFL. They get exposed. I don't wish him anything but well in his NFL career, I personally just don't see it happening.

I feel you. We run a similar thing in HS. There's tags: formation, run v pass, route combos and lineman responsibilities. Everyone has to listen for their tag. The only one that has to know it all is the QB. It's really not that hard. IMO, you have media types that don't know the first thing about being in a huddle and what it sounds like, so it's all gibberish to 'em.

Oh he's grasped the language. BFD. At this point in his career, the only thing he has to learn is the team specific tags. I prefer to think about it that it's more like a different dialect than a new language. He likely had that down shortly after the draft.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lots of twitter posts about guys making impressive acrobatic catches from Cam... Ya, they're having to contort or leap to catch it, because Cam is so inaccurate. That doesn't mean Cam is doing great!

One more thing. People keep chiding Mac for mostly going "underneath", as if that's a clear sign he's not ready or bad or taking the easy way out. Do we forget that Brady's style coined the "dink & dunk" approach that made him the GOAT. Commentators still referred to Brady's games as dink & dunk during the 2nd SB era, after years like 07, etc... At least Mac can hit people in stride at 10yds, and not drill a hole in the dirt 5 yards short.

I was wondering if others were thinking the same thing I was.

Cam is not an accurate QB. I don't care if he completed 67% or whatever passes last year.

There is nothing wrong with an offense that scores 25-30ppg by taking a death by 1000 papercuts approach.

 

[DaBruinz]

Boldin also had 157 catches and 2000yds receiving his 1st 2 years catching balls from Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

Dude was a beast.

Harry aint

The situations were significantly different.
Boldin was the only receiver that the Cards had his rookie year. (Bryant Johnson was an afterthought as the #2) Boldin also missed 6 games his sophomore year. That was the first year with Fitzgerald.

No, it didn't help that Harry missed time as a rookie. And the Covid year didn't help. Neither did Cam leading him into hits. Which is why Harry missed time last year.

 

[moosekill]

Could be. I doubt he had many serious trade destinations.

I think he is very attached to social media and probably hears the negative comments, is not used to having people doubt him and threw a hissy fit. If he does well and manages to turn those frowns upside down, he will probably be fine playing here. If he doesn't he will be gone.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The situations were significantly different.
Boldin was the only receiver that the Cards had his rookie year. (Bryant Johnson was an afterthought as the #2) Boldin also missed 6 games his sophomore year. That was the first year with Fitzgerald.

No, it didn't help that Harry missed time as a rookie. And the Covid year didn't help. Neither did Cam leading him into hits. Which is why Harry missed time last year.

So?

If you want to give Harry the benefit of the doubt thats fine. I would agree hes had some buzzard's luck but that doesn't change the fact he sucks and Boldin produced. If Boldin sucked he wouldn't have caught all those passes and yards.

 

[IllegalContact]

the bottom line is that the smartest guy in the room says Cam is the starter right now.

But there's a bunch of people here doing great Felger and Mazz imitations

 

[Zuma]

It's ok to give Harry the benefit of doubt through camp. If he's not producing in preseason (1st game is in about 2 weeks)...send him to the PS, trade or release.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's ok to give Harry the benefit of doubt through camp. If he's not producing in preseason...send him to the PS, trade or release.

 

[catent]

Shame that some fans are rooting against Harry because he requested a trade.

He’s a person with his own goals/priorities and he’s entirely within his rights to ask for a change in venue of his career/job if he feels it’s in his best interest to do so.

Belichick said himself and Harry have a good relationship. Harry seems like a good guy. I’m glad he’s had a strong start to training camp and I’m pulling for him.

Root for the kid to succeed here if it’s meant to be. If not, all the best.

 

[Deus Irae]

Shame that some fans are rooting against Harry because he requested a trade.

He’s a person with his own goals/priorities and he’s entirely within his rights to ask for a change in venue of his career/job if he feels it’s in his best interest to do so.

Shame that your complaining about some fans rooting against Harry because he requested a trade. People rooting against him are entirely within their rights.

 

[Kontradiction]

Could you show where where I said anything about Harry in the conversation? I didn't. I was talking about Wilkerson and your claim that he was going to be one of the main gunners this year.

1. The post you responded to was a conversation about Harry and his role on the offense and lack thereof on ST. Therefore, Harry is relevant.

2. I never said Wilkerson would be the main gunner. Just that it would be one of his expected roles if the team decides to carry 5 WRs on the active roster and should he make the team. This notion of him being the “main gunner” is a straw man.

So what if Slater is 35. He was an ALL-PRO Special Teamer last year

The fact that he’s 35 is a big deal. He’s long in the tooth for a gunner. Doesn’t mean he’ll be cut, but it’s a factor that needs to be considered

and continues to be one of the best Special Teams players in the league.

Probably, but don’t say this as if it’s a fact when there hasn’t even been a single preseason game.

And Justin Bethel is right up there with Slater as one of the best in the league. Wilkerson has to show that he's better than either Bethel or Slater to get that position. And I don't see it happening this year. Could he become the heir apparent? Sure. Could he end up getting shot this season if one of Bethel or Slater get hurt? Yep. But it's very unlikely he makes the team as a Gunner out of Camp because of who is in front of him.

He could make the team as a WR who has a role on ST (even as a back-up).

No. It's not a "pretty easy assumption" unless you decide to ignore reality. Wilkerson is 4th at the Gunner position, at best.

Who would be in front of him besides 35 year old Matt Slater and Bethel?

He's the 6th or 7th WR on the team currently. He's behind Bourne, Agholor, Meyers, and Olszweski at the very least. He's also behind Harry based on what's been tweeted. Brandon King also cut his teeth as a gunner before all his injuries. Haven't heard anything about him, camp wise. No, I don't expect Kingon the 53, but he was there at the Gunner position at one point.

Umm.. Wilkerson hasn't gotten more and more reps with the Starting O as camp has gone on. ALL the WRs have rotated through with Cam and Mac throwing to them. You're attempting to make Wilkerson's participation more than it actually is.

He hasn’t? So these reports are lies?

Patriots training camp: Cam Newton tightens grip on QB1; Mac Jones looks like a rookie for first time

The veteran quarterback had possibly his best day of camp and continues to see the bulk of the first-team reps.

theathletic.com

Wilkerson has earned increased reps with the starting offense in recent days. Beyond Agholor, Bourne and Meyers — and maybe Olszewski, who has an advantage as an All-Pro punt returner — there’s a wide-open competition at receiver.

Patriots training camp Day 6: Two linebackers flash, Cam Newton-Mac Jones QB competition heats up

FOXBORO — For a stretch in Monday’s practice, Mac Jones was the only quarterback. He took 16 straight reps in consecutive team drills, completing 83% of his passes. He carved up the middle of…

www.bostonherald.com

• Second-year wideout Kristian Wilkerson took more reps with the starters than most practices last week, likely a reward for his surprisingly strong camp. He caught both his targets in team drills.

In any event, I doubt we carry more than 4 WRs (not counting Slater) and expect we will carry 3 TEs on the active roster. Algholor, Meyers, Bourne, and Gunner would be my guess. If we do carry 5 WRs, which I doubt based on the personnel packages I expect us to lean heavily on this season, Wilkerson makes it over Harry in the event that he continues to have a good camp on the offensive side of the ball and carves out a role on ST.

 

[patfanken]

Yeah I believe he can also be that type of player, albeit not as prolific as Boldin. It's just mind boggling though that we used a first round pick on him knowing what his strenghts and weaknesses are and then not using the same exact strength that prompted us to draft him. It's like BB the GM didn't convey the reasons why we drafted Harry to BB the HC lol.

Well sometimes some fans blame the player for the team overdrafting him. I know I was pissed that they drafted ANY WR at #32 But having one that hasn't had much production, just show how fickle picking a WR is. You get great ones early, late and all through the draft.

And the beauty of of WR's is that if you don't get one this year, just wait until the next year and there will be 20+ NFL caliber prospects the next,.

 

[Ollie]

Shame that your complaining about some fans rooting against Harry because he requested a trade. People rooting against him are entirely within their rights.

People complaining about some fans rooting against Harry because he requested a trade are also entirely within their rights.

And i do think it's odd to be a fan of a team but to actively want one of the players to do badly and fail.

 

[Deus Irae]

People complaining about some fans rooting against Harry because he requested a trade are also entirely within their rights.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of his post.

And i do think it's odd to be a fan of a team but to actively want one of the players to do badly and fail.

Why would you think it odd that people would want a player to washout before the season starts? That's been happening since the beginning of sport.

 

[amfootball]

And i do think it's odd to be a fan of a team but to actively want one of the players to do badly and fail.

Really? That happens all the time.

 

[Joker]

And i do think it's odd to be a fan of a team but to actively want one of the players to do badly and fail.

Guess you never had to endure Tony Eason then...

 

[Bill Lee]

I forget which one of the legit pundits mentioned it. But they stated that, when talking to Hoyer, he legitimately didn't have an interest in it because of the extra hours it would require him to be away from his family.

Guess we gotta give the blind squirrel his due, it was Volin who got the quote:




Seems his wife has a pretty good perspective on things. A quick google suggests he's pulled in $29M over his years. He was getting starter money for a bit there in CLE. He doesn't have to work ever again, especially not for the hours and wages a NFL QB coach would make. It's smarter to keep the wife happy rather than give her half of everything in a divorce.

 

[Bill Lee]

I think Harry will be on the 53. Some say he has done this before in camp. I think he sticks. It’s between him and Wilkerson.

Ok, fess up, how many of us read this as "I think he stinks"???

Personally I'm glad to read that Harry is improving.

I hope our patsfans community can have a little more patience with him.

I think this is a "do or die" offseason for him, either he shows well or he's cut or traded.

I think it'll be really interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Ollie]

Why would you think it odd that people would want a player to washout before the season starts? That's been happening since the beginning of sport.

Because if a player surpasses expectations the team has a decent player who can contribute which will help the team win games? If Harry can be a physical player who can be an asset in he red zone and possibly be close to the player we thought we were drafting why wouldn't you want that? It would make our receiver group better. Why wouldn't a fan want that? To want to have a weaker receiver group and see a player flop seems odd.