N’Keal Harry Updates.

[Sully]

And we never even got to the last ditch effort tight end experiment. Was looking forward to those threads.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Naahhhh…they don’t care about Harry. What they absolutely love is always being the know-it-all authorities on the forum and rolling their eyes at anyone who dares criticize a decision by the Patriots. This is a great example right here. Many pointed out in year one that Harry was a terrible pick and cited reasons why (Harry’s obvious issues, monster receiving class with many other options.). Team Bill arrogantly scoffed that people would dare think they know more than Bill as they make excuse after excuse after excuse, still never acknowledging they were wrong.

When given clear counter evidence that players almost never make a sophomore jump after such a dismal rookie year, they just ignore facts and point fingers about team loyalty, Brady stans who hate the team, lack of gratitude, etc. The pretzel twisting this offseason, trying to explain how they just overpaid for receivers, and yet Harry wasn’t s bad pick, was a new level of stubbornness.

Rather flippant for the King of Stupid Commentary.

Considering your lifetime "correct" total has now reached a level experienced by a morning broken clock.....you might want to tone it down just a little bit.

On the other hand, showboating is a byproduct of having "never been there before".

 

[Tunescribe]

It's just another in a long line of pain in the azz, outside the numbers divas that Bill can't draft/coach/develop. What I can't figure out is why Bill is fine with diva CBs, but with diva WRs he just sucks. They are generally cut from the same cloth.

In defense of BB on the Pats WR woes: I don't believe he just sucks at drafting/developing them or has a blind spot. He (A) historically hasn't put a high premium on the position due to overall roster-building philosophy, (B) has had a QB in Brady who could elevate average WR talent allowing the wealth to be spread elsewhere, and (C) has been forced by the team's consistent success into low draft position for two decades.

It's not like there haven't been some really good WRs drafted/developed by BB over the years -- Branch, Edelman, Mitchell, Givens, etc. And he filled gaps with some key FA pickups, re. Moss, Amendola, Welker, Patten, Hogan, LaFell, Gaffney, Cooks, Dorsett, Lloyd, Caldwell and others.

I think our problem is over-focusing on the busts and misses like Harry, Dobson, Bethel Johnson, Boyce, Chad Jackson, etc. while lamenting the lack of receiver star power in a league that glorifies the position. All teams have busts and misses. You'd have to conclude that on balance, the Pats have done OK at WR under BB.

 

[patsinthesnow]

0.80 yards per route run vs man coverage 92/94 for qualifying WRs

35.7 passer rating vs man coverage
90/94 for qualifying WRs

A 1st round WR wasn’t a JAG. Harry was a practice squad caliber player.

I think he has a claim to the worst 1st round WR of the decade. It’s between him and AJ Jenkins. Treadwell had double his production.

 

[Steve102]

In defense of BB on the Pats WR woes: I don't believe he just sucks at drafting/developing them or has a blind spot. He (A) historically hasn't put a high premium on the position due to overall roster-building philosophy, (B) has had a QB in Brady who could elevate average WR talent allowing the wealth to be spread elsewhere, and (C) has been forced by the team's consistent success into low draft position for two decades.

It's not like there haven't been some really good WRs drafted/developed by BB over the years -- Branch, Edelman, Mitchell, Givens, etc. And he filled gaps with some key FA pickups, re. Moss, Amendola, Welker, Patten, Hogan, LaFell, Gaffney, Cooks, Dorsett, Lloyd, Caldwell and others.

I think our problem is over-focusing on the busts and misses like Harry, Dobson, Bethel Johnson, Boyce, Chad Jackson, etc. while lamenting the lack of receiver star power in a league that glorifies the position. All teams have busts and misses. You'd have to conclude that on balance, the Pats have done OK at WR under BB.

I think he's fine with scrappy, less physically gifted guys that are not true outside the numbers guys. Slots, undersized guys that fit into his work harder than the opponent types he's great with. That tall, fast strictly outside the numbers guy... the ones who are generally the best athlete on their respective teams at every level coming up... less so.

 

[Sicilian]

I think he's fine with scrappy, less physically gifted guys that are not true outside the numbers guys. Slots, undersized guys that fit into his work harder than the opponent types he's great with. That tall, fast strictly outside the numbers guy... the ones who are generally the best athlete on their respective teams at every level coming up... less so.

Except for Randy Moss, but he's also a top ten all time receiver (at worst), so that's a special case.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Absolutely key point. There is no sure fire method to measure this aspect yet it is often just accepted as "the same" when criticizing the ability to draft for the NFL. The ability to use the physical gifts - accessing them and applying them appropriately in any given situation is not simply muscle memory, but actual mental acuity that is likely nigh immeasurable in anything but a glut of NFL game situations.

Yep. They need to corner the market on WRs who played QB in HS or college.

I'm serious. Just draft/sign 'em all and put them through the OTAs and TC and see who has the biggest brain, works the hardest and has the most athletic talent and develop them.

In this offense all we have to go on are JE11 and Jakobi.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yep. They need to corner the market on WRs who played QB in HS or college.

I'm serious. Just draft/sign 'em all and put them through the OTAs and TC and see who has the biggest brain, works the hardest and has the most athletic talent and develop them.

In this offense all we have to go on are JE11 and Jakobi.

Bill does do a good job developing or using low picks: David Givens, Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman, Meyers.

Not every gm is perfect at every position, out of all the positions, it's actually alright to be mediocre at drafting WR when you can pull an unheralded productive guy every couple years. Better this, than being Pittsburgh who clearly knows how to evaluate WR but have too many other roster holes.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

0.80 yards per route run vs man coverage 92/94 for qualifying WRs

35.7 passer rating vs man coverage
90/94 for qualifying WRs

A 1st round WR wasn’t a JAG. Harry was a practice squad caliber player.

I think he has a claim to the worst 1st round WR of the decade. It’s between him and AJ Jenkins. Treadwell had double his production.

He is what we thought literally the day he was drafted. Some gave benefit of the doubt since he had never drafted a WR that high before. Nope Chad Jackson all over again.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill does do a good job developing or using low picks: David Givens, Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman, Meyers.

Not every gm is perfect at every position, out of all the positions, it's actually alright to be mediocre at drafting WR when you can pull an unheralded productive guy every couple years. Better this, than being Pittsburgh who clearly knows how to evaluate WR but have too many other roster holes.

The WRs who have been successful in this offense are the ones who have a high football IQ, work hard, have good ability and know how to get open.

Meyers is 4-4
Harry is 0-4

One is a UFA
One is a 1st rd pick.

Incredible.

 

[Steve102]

Except for Randy Moss, but he's also a top ten all time receiver (at worst), so that's a special case.

I meant drafting and developing WRs, my bad. I think Moss was a special case. He wanted to re-establish his reputation. Once he reverted to form, Bill launched him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

To be fair, that's agent spin you're quoting. I don't think you're wrong, mind you, but it's not Harry speaking. It's just another in a long line of pain in the azz, outside the numbers divas that Bill can't draft/coach/develop.

What I can't figure out is why Bill is fine with diva CBs, but with diva WRs he just sucks. They are generally cut from the same cloth.

I'm sorry what did you write here?

 

[Uptown]

Harry + 7th for Tate.

Obviously wasn’t my first choice, but I wouldn’t have minded a trade for him at last year’s trade deadline.

 

[Kontradiction]

*YAWN* Typical counting your chickens before they're hatched by you.. Your post that I responded to is still complete garbage. This doesn't change that.

His agent asked for a trade because the writing is on the wall. If you feel so compelled to respond, reply to my last post to you before the GIF. You never did.

 

[Froob]

Harry has the same production as Scott Miller who was picked by Tampa in the 6th round of Harry's draft.

When you consider all the talented NFL players that the Pats couls have grabbed with the wasted Harry pick, especially at WR. The 2019 draft will go down as probably one of the best WR drafts of all time, and the Pats took the only dud at pick 32!

Let's not forget that JoeJuan was picked at 45, again passing up Greedy Williams, DK Metcalf, Irv Smith, Jr,, etc.

This draft was the final straw in breaking Brady. So much talent and the Pats come away with busts at the top two picks.

Scotty Miller is much better.

 

[Ollie]

The WRs who have been successful in this offense are the ones who have a high football IQ, work hard, have good ability and know how to get open.

Meyers is 4-4
Harry is 0-4

One is a UFA
One is a 1st rd pick.

Incredible.

Is it that incredible? 1st round bust happen all the time every year for lots of teams as well as UDFA's make it as decent WR's. we have two who will get a lot of snaps on the team at the moment.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is it that incredible? 1st round bust happen all the time every year for lots of teams as well as UDFA's make it as decent WR's. we have two who will get a lot of snaps on the team at the moment.

It's incredible in the fact how on the same team a UFA is poised to be a pot'l 1000yd receiver while the 1st round pick is shooting his way out of town because he is on the verge of being cut.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Obviously wasn’t my first choice, but I wouldn’t have minded a trade for him at last year’s trade deadline.

I don't know much about Tate personally, but in general I support the idea of trading Harry for another reclamation project (if that's how you would classify Tate). It's why the Harry for Isabella idea always worked for me. But this is assuming the trade is made prior to TC, otherwise I don't know if there would be enough time for a new WR to learn the offense well enough to earn significant time with this group. In that scenario, a straight pick (even if conditional) would probably be better.

If we still wanted that big, physical presence I'd be all over Tate. He can block, has tremendous body control and strong hands to kill 50/50 balls. He's one of the best I've seen in a while in that department. Limited but very, very good at what he does.
Plus he's hungry and has a chip on his shoulder. Again if we still wanted that type he's worth a shot. Late round pick that has high draft picks in front of him.

 

[Steve102]

I'm sorry what did you write here?

He was quoting the agent talking about Harry being a dominant downfield threat, and saying that Harry was a diva. I said it's the agent talking/spinning. Sales BS.

 

[Deus Irae]

In defense of BB on the Pats WR woes: I don't believe he just sucks at drafting/developing them or has a blind spot. He (A) historically hasn't put a high premium on the position due to overall roster-building philosophy, (B) has had a QB in Brady who could elevate average WR talent allowing the wealth to be spread elsewhere, and (C) has been forced by the team's consistent success into low draft position for two decades.

He has generally looked for veteran WRs. But, when he's gone fishing for WR talent, Branch has been his only high round (1-3) hit.

Johnson
Jackson
Tate
Price
Dobson
Harry


1 for 7 sucks.