Mike Lombardi- 30 questions Belichick asks about a Quarterback

[Ochmed Jones]

Yeah that 2008 draft sucked overall...Mayo was a good player his first 5 years here, but he really wasn't what one would consider the 10th overall pick of the entire draft good...I can still see Russell Wilson bouncing off him in Seattle as if he wasn't even there...And sorry not sorry, but Matt Slater would've not only still been available at the Pats original 5th-rounder, but he probably would've also still been available at the 7th-rounder (#238) Bill gave to Tampa for him in the first place...

Over the past five drafts, is bb drafting turds, or are we just not developing the turds?

Ps: I think all 7 of the second round blunders at defensive back were bb trying to outsmart everybody and drafting total turds that did not fit our defense and ending up shooting himself in the nuts!

 

[Pats1971]

Over the past five drafts, is bb drafting turds, or are we just not developing the turds?

Ps: I think all 7 of the second round blunders at defensive back were bb trying to outsmart everybody and drafting total turds that did not fit our defense and ending up shooting himself in the nuts!

Yeah I have no answer. I mean I am no draft expert and they forgot more than I will ever know about drafting players. Most of the time I just let it play out. One of the times I really thought it was a bad decision was Tavon Wilson. Safety that was literally a 7th round prospect we took in the second round, and yep he played like a 7th rounder. It happens, and not every player is going to be a stud, but you could have had him about 10 times in that draft.

 

[Pats1971]

So true. JaMarcus Russell, Jeff George; plenty of other examples.


edit: this list of the strongest arms in college football from 2016 is pretty amusing to look at now, as further proof that arm strength is nice, but highly overrated.

16 for '16: College football QBs with the strongest arms

» Complete 16 for '16 series College Football 24/7's "16 for '16" series continues with a look at 16 quarterbacks with the strongest arms. We kick off the list with a QB who's just beginning his college career, and top it with a senior signal-caller wi

www.nfl.com

It is. People and scouts get so excited when a QB throws 60 yards from a knee but how does that show that he can play football? In a study I did one time I tallied up all throws over 45+ yards in the air attempts and completions and lets just say those kinds of throws average less than one a game for almost every QB in football. Nobody is throwing 75 yard in the air td's. Give me a Qb that can pre read defenses, has a quick release, knows game situations and cares more about winning than his stats, and I will take that over monster arm QB who takes 5 sacks a game and throws up for grab footballs with a slow release.

 

[Tony2046]

It is. People and scouts get so excited when a QB throws 60 yards from a knee but how does that show that he can play football? In a study I did one time I tallied up all throws over 45+ yards in the air attempts and completions and lets just say those kinds of throws average less than one a game for almost every QB in football. Nobody is throwing 75 yard in the air td's. Give me a Qb that can pre read defenses, has a quick release, knows game situations and cares more about winning than his stats, and I will take that over monster arm QB who takes 5 sacks a game and throws up for grab footballs with a slow release.

I agree with all of that but will say that it's not necessarily the 70 yard throws that draft experts are drooling over, although some do, rather it's the strong arm that can fire a ball into a tight window quicker than a weaker arm could giving a DB less time to react.

But I completely agree that the ability to process the defense quickly is the number one trait an NFL QB should have.

 

[jimnance]

It is. People and scouts get so excited when a QB throws 60 yards from a knee but how does that show that he can play football? In a study I did one time I tallied up all throws over 45+ yards in the air attempts and completions and lets just say those kinds of throws average less than one a game for almost every QB in football. Nobody is throwing 75 yard in the air td's. Give me a Qb that can pre read defenses, has a quick release, knows game situations and cares more about winning than his stats, and I will take that over monster arm QB who takes 5 sacks a game and throws up for grab footballs with a slow release.

Youre right about the throws of 45+ yds.
Hardly ever happens.
But the NFL defines deep-ball passes as 16+ in the air, PFF as 20+ and the Deep Ball Project as 21+.
Tom Brady has led the nfl in deep-ball passing numerous times in his career, more than A.Rodgers, who led last year.
We also know Brady can fire lasers in tight windows when needed to beat coverage and often,the weather.
Those are examples of a strong arm that matters, not someone showing off at a combine rifling a 70yder on one knee.
And of course, we know about his release and ability to read defenses. In general, if you look at the different qbs rated in the top 10 of nfl deep-ball accuracy over the last 15 years, vast majority are the best overall qbs that season. Brady,Rodgers,Mahomes,Ben,Rivers Peyton etc.

 

[denverpatsfan]

All those questions made me think about this...

 

[jah]

“‘We will never take a quarterback with a low test score who plays at a poor level of competition and is not capable of leading the team. Those three areas are vital to us when we’re looking for a quarterback.​

​

The level of comp is a tough call, but it really applies to the quarterback position. It would be difficult for a small-school quarterback to get a good grade unless he played well in the postseason.’”​

Interesting that despite the level of competition, Belichick has twice drafted a quarterback from a second tier school relatively early:
- 2014: Jimmy G (2nd round, #62; Eastern Illinois)
- 2008: Kevin O'Connell (3rd round, #94; San Diego State)

Garoppolo was named the best player in the FCS, and played well in his two 2013 playoff games (Eastern Illinois scored 51 points and 39 points, so he still fits the standards.

But the Pats seemed to contradict their own philosophy when it came to KOC. In his four years there SDSU went 4-7, 5-7, 3-9 and 4-8; as a senior the Aztecs scored 17 or fewer points four times. However he apparently played well in the Hula Bowl, and also played in the East-West Shrine game, so maybe that was enough? To this day that draft pick still baffles me.

I wonder if the O'Connell pick was made with the intention of using him as a proto-Taysom Hill but it fell apart because he was just bad at playing football in general. He might not have been subject to the same standards as most Patriots QB prospects if there was a positional versatility element.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Recently added questions:

Question 31: Has he used the services of any non university approved mauseues? 31b: Did he personally seek out any of these mauseues via social media?

Did he have them sign an NDA BEFORE the massage?

 

[Ross12]

“‘We will never take a quarterback with a low test score who plays at a poor level of competition and is not capable of leading the team. Those three areas are vital to us when we’re looking for a quarterback.​

​

The level of comp is a tough call, but it really applies to the quarterback position. It would be difficult for a small-school quarterback to get a good grade unless he played well in the postseason.’”​

Interesting that despite the level of competition, Belichick has twice drafted a quarterback from a second tier school relatively early:
- 2014: Jimmy G (2nd round, #62; Eastern Illinois)
- 2008: Kevin O'Connell (3rd round, #94; San Diego State)

Garoppolo was named the best player in the FCS, and played well in his two 2013 playoff games (Eastern Illinois scored 51 points and 39 points, so he still fits the standards.

But the Pats seemed to contradict their own philosophy when it came to KOC. In his four years there SDSU went 4-7, 5-7, 3-9 and 4-8; as a senior the Aztecs scored 17 or fewer points four times. However he apparently played well in the Hula Bowl, and also played in the East-West Shrine game, so maybe that was enough? To this day that draft pick still baffles me.

I also thought about how Jimmy fit these criteria while reading. Didn't think of O'Connell, good point. Reading through all of this, makes me think they probably value Jones higher than Lance. Also makes me wonder how they grade Mond... lots of experience and has excelled at times against quality competition, combined with size and athletic ability.

 

[ralmat55]

Bill Polian says otherwise on Slater. Heard him on SiriusXM say the Colts were just about to take Slater if the Pats hadn’t taken him.

 

[rochrist]

Mac ran a 4.79 forty, so he just barely squeaks into the "4.81" metric, hah.

Edit: Looks like he also ran a 4.72 and 4.68, so not too bad for his type of QB.

Brady ran a 5.2.

 

[rochrist]

Yeah I have no answer. I mean I am no draft expert and they forgot more than I will ever know about drafting players. Most of the time I just let it play out. One of the times I really thought it was a bad decision was Tavon Wilson. Safety that was literally a 7th round prospect we took in the second round, and yep he played like a 7th rounder. It happens, and not every player is going to be a stud, but you could have had him about 10 times in that draft.

FWIW, Wilson is starting his tenth season in the league and has played in 125 games.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yeah I have no answer. I mean I am no draft expert and they forgot more than I will ever know about drafting players. Most of the time I just let it play out. One of the times I really thought it was a bad decision was Tavon Wilson. Safety that was literally a 7th round prospect we took in the second round, and yep he played like a 7th rounder. It happens, and not every player is going to be a stud, but you could have had him about 10 times in that draft.

Yeah there has to be the missing intelligence that even if you have a guy rated high on your board, know how the rest of the NFL views this player so you're not wasting draft value taking a guy too early. Take him before you think someone else will. Taking a guy 5 rounds too early is not good economics or use of value. It's an overpay. The drafts from 2013-now have had too many (3) people from John Carroll university, not exactly a powerhouse in the brains department....

.

 

[captain stone]

All those questions made me think about this...

The moral of the story, kids: Know your geography!


(The capital of Assyria during the Arthurian period was probably still Assur...)

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

All those questions made me think about this...

"You have to know these things when you're QB."

Regards,
Chris

 

[1960Pats]

Theres one qb BB evaluated who answered all 30 questions.
Unfortunately, hes playing in Tampa.

I was thinking along the same lines but was grateful that BB didn't adhere strictly to the foot speed of 4.81 or better in 2000.

 

[zipster9]

Numbers from Alabama QB Mac Jones' pro day submitted to the league:

Height: 6-2 5/8
Weight: 217
40-yard dash: 4.72, 4.68
Vertical jump: 32 inches
Broad jump: 9 feet, 8 inches
Shuttle: 4.39
3-cone: 7.04

Mond showcased his athleticism with a 40-yard dash time of 4.57 seconds, per Billy Liucci of TexAgs.com.

Trask did say that Gators coach Dan Mullen told him he ran a 4.98s 40-yard-dash.

Stanford Cardinal quarterback Davis Mills runs unofficial 4.66 and 4.58 second 40-yard dashes at his pro day workout.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Numbers from Alabama QB Mac Jones' pro day submitted to the league:

Height: 6-2 5/8
Weight: 217
40-yard dash: 4.72, 4.68
Vertical jump: 32 inches
Broad jump: 9 feet, 8 inches
Shuttle: 4.39
3-cone: 7.04

Mond showcased his athleticism with a 40-yard dash time of 4.57 seconds, per Billy Liucci of TexAgs.com.

Trask did say that Gators coach Dan Mullen told him he ran a 4.98s 40-yard-dash.

Stanford Cardinal quarterback Davis Mills runs unofficial 4.66 and 4.58 second 40-yard dashes at his pro day workout.

I think both Mac and Mills have a lot of potential as NFL QBs. Having said this, 40 times for a QB is one of the silliest metrics to care about. It's like caring how much a wide receiver can bench press.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wonder if the O'Connell pick was made with the intention of using him as a proto-Taysom Hill but it fell apart because he was just bad at playing football in general. He might not have been subject to the same standards as most Patriots QB prospects if there was a positional versatility element.

They claimed they had a first-round grade on O'Connell.

 

[NormZauchin]

They claimed they had a first-round grade on O'Connell.

There was a lot of grade inflation that year.