Because hyperbole is mind-numbing when it becomes "truth"...

[Wozzy]

I could have said that in a lot of years, even ones we won the superbowl. An offense that does not turn the ball over and has good drives and produce points helps the defense greatly. Time off the field, not putting the D in bad positions. If you look at Tampa, in 2019 with the same guys they gave up a ton more points on defense, nobody considered them a good defense, then magically in 2020, their defense was almighty? I remember watching pats games even in great years being frustrated watching the defense not be able to get off the field on 3rd down, and getting zero pressure on the QB. Not to mention defense that have also have a great offense tend to make other teams take more chances which can also lead to turnovers. Complimentary football is the key. Its very rare that a defense is so great that they can have a bad offense and still not give up points.

"Total points" is not as accurate or good a stat as "points per drive."

Tampa as a team in 2019 allowed the 29th most point to opposing teams, but that includes interceptions or fumbles taken back to the house, punt and kick returns taken to the house. Consider that Jameis Winston led the NFL in turnovers in 2019, he threw 30 interceptions and fumbled the ball 12 times... he was a wreck. Conversely Tampa's defense allowed 17th most points per drive, and even that number was skewed by Winston's historically bad turnover problem. How many of those opponent's drives started in Tampa territory or in the red zone?

Tampa's talent on D never wavered, it only improved. They were #1 in run stops, their DT's were amazing. One of their best pass rushers Pierre-Paul was dinged up in 2019, they had two rookies and a sophomore playing corner in the defensive backfield who had to improve and needed another safety. Devin White is a game changing linebacker, if he remains healthy he's on a fast track to the HOF.

In 2020 the Buc's D (with a better QB) was 6th in points per drive, 6th in total yards, 5th in forced turnovers, 1st in rushing still. They were a top five defense. The real issue with that team early in the season wasn't defense but offense. They thought they didn't need to run the ball and they also led the NFL in penalties for the first third of the season. They got absolutely shellacked by the Saints where the Buc's offense set an NFL record fewest rushing attempts (4) in a single game. They had to learn that despite having the best receiving weapons probably in NFL history, no team can afford to be one dimensional.

This is the NFL, rosters change quickly and what happened yesterday has no bearing on today. Tom chose wisely, Bruce Arians and Licht the GM did a great job filling the roster holes last offseason. Tom choosing Tampa is a lot like Phil Jackson choosing the Jordan/Pippen Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers. The 2020 Bucs were a super-team, an all-star team... they will be again in 2021 if they remain healthy.

 

[Pats1971]

"Total points" is not as accurate or good a stat as "points per drive."

Tampa as a team in 2019 allowed the 29th most point to opposing teams, but that includes interceptions or fumbles taken back to the house, punt and kick returns taken to the house. Consider that Jameis Winston led the NFL in turnovers in 2019, he threw 30 interceptions and fumbled the ball 12 times... he was a wreck. Conversely Tampa's defense allowed 17th most points per drive, and even that number was skewed by Winston's historically bad turnover problem. How many of those opponent's drives started in Tampa territory or in the red zone?

Tampa's talent on D never wavered, it only improved. They were #1 in run stops, their DT's were amazing. One of their best pass rusher Pierre-Paul was dinged up in 2019, they had two rookies and a sophomore playing in the defensive backfield who had to improve. Devin White is a game changing linebacker, if he remains healthy he's on a fast track to the HOF.

In 2020 the Buc's D (with a better QB) was 6th in points per drive, 6th in total yards, 5th in forced turnovers, 1st in rushing still. They were a top five defense. The real issue with that team early in the season wasn't defense but offense. They thought they didn't need to run the ball and they also led the NFL in penalties for the first third of the season. They got absolutely shellacked by the Saints where the Buc's offense set an NFL record fewest rushing attempts in a single game. They had to learn that despite having the best weapons probably in NFL history, no team can afford to be one dimensional.

This is the NFL, rosters change quickly and what happened yesterday has no bearing on today. Tom chose wisely, Bruce Arians and Licht the GM did a great job filling the roster holes last offseason. Tom choosing Tampa is a lot like Phil Jackson choosing the Jordan/Pippen Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers. The 2020 Bucs were a super-team, an all-star team... they will be again in 2021 if they remain healthy.

Again, Tampa is still not in the playoffs unless Brady goes there. Its that simple, this is not even an argument anywhere. It does not matter what stars you have on your team, if you turn the ball over, have no leadership, and do not know how to win, you are not winning anything. I mean you said it yourself when Winston was there, this happened. Fact is in 2019, not one person anywhere was saying Tampa was a great team and Arians was a great coach. I listened all off season about how Arians would ruin Brady and that QB's in his system did worse. Nobody had them as a top anything. Players being there does not mean winning and they proved that in 2019. When Brady came in, the entire team, attitude, and consistency changed. Brady had two teams offer him a contract, so he did not have his pick of the litter. He basically chose Tampa over the chargers, and some of that choice was based on him wanting to stay on the easy coast for his son who lived in NY. A collection of stars does not win. he brought what they needed to win. Again, this is not me saying it, its the team, the players, the owner saying it.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

"Total points" is not as accurate or good a stat as "points per drive."

Tampa as a team in 2019 allowed the 29th most point to opposing teams, but that includes interceptions or fumbles taken back to the house, punt and kick returns taken to the house. Consider that Jameis Winston led the NFL in turnovers in 2019, he threw 30 interceptions and fumbled the ball 12 times... he was a wreck. Conversely Tampa's defense allowed 17th most points per drive, and even that number was skewed by Winston's historically bad turnover problem. How many of those opponent's drives started in Tampa territory or in the red zone?

Tampa's talent on D never wavered, it only improved. They were #1 in run stops, their DT's were amazing. One of their best pass rusher Pierre-Paul was dinged up in 2019, they had two rookies and a sophomore playing in the defensive backfield who had to improve. Devin White is a game changing linebacker, if he remains healthy he's on a fast track to the HOF.

In 2020 the Buc's D (with a better QB) was 6th in points per drive, 6th in total yards, 5th in forced turnovers, 1st in rushing still. They were a top five defense. The real issue with that team early in the season wasn't defense but offense. They thought they didn't need to run the ball and they also led the NFL in penalties for the first third of the season. They got absolutely shellacked by the Saints where the Buc's offense set an NFL record fewest rushing attempts in a single game. They had to learn that despite having the best weapons probably in NFL history, no team can afford to be one dimensional.

This is the NFL, rosters change quickly and what happened yesterday has no bearing on today. Tom chose wisely, Bruce Arians and Licht the GM did a great job filling the roster holes last offseason. Tom choosing Tampa is a lot like Phil Jackson choosing the Jordan/Pippen Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers. The 2020 Bucs were a super-team, an all-star team... they will be again in 2021 if they remain healthy.

Their Saints games were telling. Much hoopla was made about scoring 30 points in the playoffs.

It's easier when your 3 TD drives only have to cover like 40 total yards. I like to look at sustained drives (60+ yards) as a measure.

 

[Pats1971]

Their Saints games were telling. Much hoopla was made about scoring 30 points in the playoffs.

It's easier when your 3 TD drives only have to cover like 40 total yards. I like to look at sustained drives (60+ yards) as a measure.

So all games were like the saints game? Tampa had 4 drives go over 60 yards in that game. I am not sure one game is telling for an entire season.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Again, Tampa is still not in the playoffs unless Brady goes there. Its that simple, this is not even an argument anywhere. It does not matter what stars you have on your team, if you turn the ball over, have no leadership, and do not know how to win, you are not winning anything. I mean you said it yourself when Winston was there, this happened. Fact is in 2019, not one person anywhere was saying Tampa was a great team and Arians was a great coach. I listened all off season about how Arians would ruin Brady and that QB's in his system did worse. Nobody had them as a top anything. Players being there does not mean winning and they proved that in 2019. When Brady came in, the entire team, attitude, and consistency changed.

Again, everyone realizes they needed a QB that wasn't a train wreck. They needed a QB that would not constantly f it up.

Where you and the dummy squad go off the rails is this asinine belief he single handedly carried them through the year and the playoffs. You can't accept that actually many QB's could have filled that role.

Their defense and KC's meltdown were the primary drivers for the Lombardi.

The reality is that game manager is some sort of plague title that people run from. In fact, the QB's most important job is to manage the game.

 

[amfootball]

Their Saints games were telling. Much hoopla was made about scoring 30 points in the playoffs.

It's easier when your 3 TD drives only have to cover like 40 total yards. I like to look at sustained drives (60+ yards) as a measure.

The Saints hung on to Brees too long. He absolutely killed them in that game and Brady took advantage every single time. A mark of a champion is putting the knife in when the other team just hands you the blade.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

So all games were like the saints game? Tampa had 4 drives go over 60 yards in that game. I am not sure one game is telling for an entire season.

New Orleans like the Rams had a good defense.

How'd that work out for them last year when they played?

 

[Pats1971]

Again, everyone realizes they needed a QB that wasn't a train wreck. They needed a QB that would not constantly f it up.

Where you and the dummy squad go off the rails is this asinine belief he single handedly carried them through the year and the playoffs. You can't accept that actually many QB's could have filled that role.

Their defense and KC's meltdown were the primary drivers for the Lombardi.

The reality is that game manager is some sort of plague title that people run from. In fact, the QB's most important job is to manage the game.

Nobody has said anything about single handedly doing anything, but the fact remains that team of stars was 7-9 in 2019 and had not won a playoff game in 18 years. Game managers do not throw 40 td's in a season, just stop. Find me a single post on here in 2019 where everyone was screaming, man if tampa only had some average game manager they would win the superbowl.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

The Saints hung on to Brees too long. He absolutely killed them in that game and Brady took advantage every single time. A mark of a champion is putting the knife in when the other team just hands you the blade.

Classic Dummy Squad. They simply can't help themselves.

They simply can't state the obvious and cling to the concept that only the GOAT can execute 5 yard TD drives.

 

[Pats1971]

The Saints hung on to Brees too long. He absolutely killed them in that game and Brady took advantage every single time. A mark of a champion is putting the knife in when the other team just hands you the blade.

Well that goes un noticed as well. If your team gets turnovers, you have to take advantage of that. Teams that do win, teams that do not, dont. Leaders in takeaways last year. here is the top 5.
1. Miami
2. Steelers
3. Bills
4. Saints
5. Colts

What in the end killed all 5 of those teams last year? Offense not producing.

 

[Pats1971]

Classic Dummy Squad. They simply can't help themselves.

They simply can't state the obvious and cling to the concept that only the GOAT can execute 5 yard TD drives.

Its amazing the concept you had that the Bucs scored all of their points on 5 yard drives. I mean in the end though, I have to take the word of things like the players, the coaches, who said what Brady brought over, bitter prom queen on message board who is bitter cause Brady left his team.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Nobody has said anything about single handedly doing anything, but the fact remains that team of stars was 7-9 in 2019 and had not won a playoff game in 18 years. Game managers do not throw 40 td's in a season, just stop. Find me a single post on here in 2019 where everyone was screaming, man if tampa only had some average game manager they would win the superbowl.

Throwing 6 TD's against the Lions is not that big of a deal.

In his rookie season, Manning threw like 26 picks and they went 3-13.

Going 7-9 when the QB turns it over 40+ times with like 7 or 8 pick 6's is actually a monumental feat.

patsfans is archived....go look at people's posts when he signed there.

 

[Pats1971]

Throwing 6 TD's against the Lions is not that big of a deal.

In his rookie season, Manning threw like 26 picks and they went 3-13.

Going 7-9 when the QB turns it over 40+ times with like 7 or 8 pick 6's is actually a monumental feat.

patsfans is archived....go look at people's posts when he signed there.

I said before Brady went to Tampa, nobody said they were a contender. So saying he did not greatly change that team is silly and anyone who knows anything would not take it serious. As I said, this did not come from brady homers, this came from the team itself. Most people did not even know who some of those guys were on that team until last year. No Tampa in Prime time, no rabid fan base, no winning playoff games, not winning seasons, just another NFL team that nobody cared about. Brady going there was the overwhelming contributor to what they became. Its more than just having a better QB, its having a Qb with that kind of leadership and knowing how to win and instilling that into the other players.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Well that goes un noticed as well. If your team gets turnovers, you have to take advantage of that. Teams that do win, teams that do not, dont. Leaders in takeaways last year. here is the top 5.
1. Miami
2. Steelers
3. Bills
4. Saints
5. Colts

What in the end killed all 5 of those teams last year? Offense not producing.

How many turnovers did Miami get in the playoffs? How about the Steelers?

Don't obtuse at the keyboard. It's simple. The Tampa defense was awesome or Brady magically made Brees turn it over 3 or 4 times.

 

[Pats1971]

How many turnovers did Miami get in the playoffs? How about the Steelers?

Don't obtuse at the keyboard. It's simple. The Tampa defense was awesome or Brady magically made Brees turn it over 3 or 4 times.

I have already explained it, you can think what you need to, while you explain why all of the sudden Tampa became the 85 bears with the exact same players in 2020. You want to think it was some change that had nothing to do with what Brady did, go for it, but you can go read experts and see why a great offense is a huge help to a defense. Most know this, you just do not want to know this, its easier for you to think brady just jumped on the superbowl tampa train that had been rolling for years, just like in 2001 when brady became the starter for the pats and after 40 years and winning 13 playoff games, they went 19 years and winning 31. This is kinda why teams covet the QB position so much, and why Tampa did not go out and just get some guy to play QB. But hey, what do players, coaches and owners know compared to guy on message board, right?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No that is not what happened. A few things happen that lead to Brady's departure. One, the team reached a level where they were very cap strapped and his contract came up. Now if Brady was hell bent on staying, they could have signed him, but at the cost of losing a lot of players. Two, at this point in Brady's career, it would be hard for him to go through another rebuild, and it would not really help the team reach its ultimate goal. Three. belichick (if you believe the reports) has been wanting to move on from Brady since 2017 because of the thought that he did not have a lot of time left. This adds an element that the team wants to move on from you and as a QB, that can speed up the process of you wanting to go to another place that still needs your service.
Basically Brady played at a level that QB's his age do not, and this threw a monkey wrench in how the pats approached years to come. Brady's contract was up, the pats had zero money, were needing to do a major rebuild and Brady still was in a place where he could compete for championships and that is not where the pats were. If Brady was 30, this is no big deal, but he was 42. Brady gave his life, a lot of his body, and everything for this team for 19 years, he did not still owe them anything, and as I said, he was still playing a level that he could still win titles.
In other words, the team was ready to start over and he was not. That is not quiting.

No, Brady waited until the DeAndre Hopkins deal fell through and then infamously drove up to Kraft's house and told him he was gone. He wanted to see what weapons Belichick could acquire before splitting. The cap situation plus our poor drafting did not help. Brady took off where the grass was greener and went to the team that can help him win another SB. Sure, Brady sacrificed a lot for NE, but NE also sacrificed a lot for Brady. Belichick provided him with a roster that won 6 titles. BTW, I want back the 2nd round pick we traded for Sanu because Brady wanted him. The team went 12-4 in 2019. There would not have been a rebuild, just a tweaking of the roster.

 

[Pats1971]

No, Brady waited until the DeAndre Hopkins deal fell through and then infamously drove up to Kraft's house and told him he was gone. He wanted to see what weapons Belichick could acquire before splitting. The cap situation plus our poor drafting did not help. Brady took off where the grass was greener and went to the team that can help him win another SB. Sure, Brady sacrificed a lot for NE, but NE also sacrificed a lot for Brady. Belichick provided him with a roster that won 6 titles. BTW, I want back the 2nd round pick we traded for Sanu because Brady wanted him. The team went 12-4 in 2019. There would not have been a rebuild, just a tweaking of the roster.

...what? You thought Bill would have even considered getting Hopkins? Dude just stop. Nobody is even buying it anymore.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

...what? You thought Bill would have even considered getting Hopkins? Dude just stop. Nobody is even buying it anymore.

Yeah he was... Maybe you should do some research

 

[Pats1971]

Yeah he was... Maybe you should do some research

ok I will do that. I will google, Pats close to signing Hopkins....I am sure its everywhere. By the way, if you want pats fans to believe you are not a Brady hating troll, using a picture of Brady getting creamed by the giants in your avatar is not the way to go. Just for future reference.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

ok I will do that. I will google, Pats close to signing Hopkins....I am sure its everywhere. By the way, if you want pats fans to believe you are not a Brady hating troll, using a picture of Brady getting creamed by the giants in your avatar is not the way to go. Just for future reference.

Breer: Patriots were involved in DeAndre Hopkins trade talks

The world was stunned when DeAndre Hopkins was traded to the Arizona Cardinals on Monday afternoon. Along with a fourth-round pick, Hopkins was sent to the desert with David Johnson, a second-round pick, and a fourth-round pick coming back to the Houston Texans. But evidently, Hopkins being...

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