Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

[TheRainMaker]

Idk, but with Fat Matt there, pretty sure one of the changes will consist of a minimum of six meat lover pizzas and a bucket of ice cream in the war room.

Funny story about Adam Gase. A former anonymous employee said he would eat pizza daily and drink a s*** ton of coffee. Another one complained that Gase, who was also a neighbor of his, would knock on their door in the middle of the night and wanted to talk about football. The wife was not happy.

 

[venecol]

I'm curious, who knows (shouldn't the Pats know) who was responsible for finding undrafted Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson ? We should elevate that person and never draft corners again without that person's evaluation. Something is broken where the Patriot high draft CB picks use a broken system but our UDFAs can end up pro bowlers. Does anyone know who found Malcolm and JC Jackson ???

 

[TheRainMaker]

You think with all the money Bill has, he'd have a better set up than this.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hindsight, revisionist history, whatever you want to call it. Pretending that Chubb was the consensus choice over Michel is disingenuous on your part.

Respectfully, if your only rebuttal is that there were posters on Patsfans that rated Chubb higher, because you can’t find examples of it by draft pundits in the media, then you’ve made my case for me.

Respectfully, the issue is you not properly using the English language in your posts, and then telling others that they're getting it wrong based upon your mistake with the language. In the case at hand, it's not hindsight. It's not revisionist history. In this case, it was just opinion, and it was one that was shared by many.

 

[Deus Irae]

I never understood the Sony hate.

1. They drafted a guy who's knee was never going to hold up (and it hasn't).
2. They drafted a guy who took great advantage of college defenses with running ability that was less likely to translate to the NFL than his teammate.
3. They drafted a guy who was supposed to be strong in the passing game, but who's sucked at it so far

So what is it that you don't understand about that "hate"?

 

[Lansdowne]

Respectfully, the issue is you not properly using the English language in your posts, and then telling others that they're getting it wrong based upon your mistake with the language. In the case at hand, it's not hindsight. It's not revisionist history. In this case, it was just opinion, and it was one that was shared by many.

Okay, English professor. If this opinion of yours is shared by “many”, then it shouldn’t be that hard for you to provide at least a few examples from draft pundits. I’m talking about a consensus in the football world, I’m not concerned with what a poster in a draft thread thinks. NFL scouts and teams don’t put any stock in what fans on a message board think. If you look long enough at an Ohio State forum I’m sure you’ll find a person or two that rates Justin Fields higher than Trevor Lawrence. So much for all the experts that say otherwise! Anyway, fans don’t represent the consensus that I’m referring to. I’m talking people who analyze this stuff for a living.

Several of the most prominent draft pundits out there all ranked Michel above Chubb, but Deus Irae of PatsFans.com had Chubb over Michel. Therefore there was no consensus? Sorry, but to use your phrase, that’s not how it works.

And before you suggest I go looking for these myself, the burden of proof is on you when defending your stance. It’s not my job to hunt down these examples for you. Besides, I’ve already provided mine a few posts earlier.

Truthfully, I don’t think you can, so I won’t hold my breath. But you’re real good at being pedantic over how words are used around here so you can keep doing that if it helps you feel better about losing your argument.

 

[venecol]

Yup. It’s hindsight to suggest Chubb was an obvious choice over Michel considering many had Michel ranked over him. Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Mike Mayock, Matt Miller all had Michel ranked above Chubb. Here’s an article on Pats Pulpit that highlights what draft experts were saying about their picks at the time, including Michel. None of them criticized the Pats for taking Michel before Chubb at the time.

How did the so-called experts grade the Patriots’ 2018 draft class?

Let’s find out what Mel Kiper and company have to say about New England’s haul.

www.patspulpit.com

Forget all those guys. What did Chris Simms say about them? Dude's a savant.

 

[Deus Irae]

Okay, English professor. If this opinion of yours is shared by “many”, then it shouldn’t be that hard for you to provide at least a few examples from draft pundits.

You talk about me being pedantic when you're both playing word games and trying to build in an "expert" requirement to the posts. In other words, splinter/plank.

But, be that as it may....

But then, ESPNInsider had Chubb seventh and Michel ninth, and DraftTek.com had Chubb sixth and Michel eighth. Then there was ESPN’s well-known draft expert Todd McShay, who had Chubb fourth and did not include Michel in his top 10.

Nick Chubb or Sony Michel: Who goes first in NFL draft not sure thing


And I didn't say where I'd rated the two players. I was just talking about your erroneous use of "hindsight", because that's become one of the most overused and abused claims around here.

Lastly, there was no burden of proof on me. Your ****ty use of the English language was the problem here, not anyone else's post.

 

[Lansdowne]

Forget all those guys. What did Chris Simms say about them? Dude's a savant.

Sarcasm aside, Simms graded the Michel pick an A- and the Chubb pick a B. If you’re at all curious of his thoughts on both picks I’ve provided the links for you below:

Sony Michel NFL Draft 2018: Scouting Report, Grade for Patriots Rookie

The New England Patriots selected Sony Michel with the 31st pick of the NFL draft. Watch above to see Chris Simms and Matt Miller break down the pick...

tinyurl.com

Nick Chubb NFL Draft 2018: Scouting Report, Grade for Browns Rookie

The Cleveland Browns selected Bradley Chubb with the 35th pick of the 2018 NFL draft. Watch above to see Chris Simms and Matt Miller break down the pick...

tinyurl.com

 

[venecol]

I never understood the Sony hate.

Do you still own a Betamax?

 

[Lansdowne]

You talk about me being pedantic when you're both playing word games and trying to build in an "expert" requirement to the posts. In other words, splinter/plank.

But, be that as it may....



Nick Chubb or Sony Michel: Who goes first in NFL draft not sure thing


And I didn't say where I'd rated the two players. I was just talking about your erroneous use of "hindsight", because that's become one of the most overused and abused claims around here.

Lastly, there was no burden of proof on me. Your ****ty use of the English language was the problem here, not anyone else's post.

In other words, you have no leg to stand on with regards to the only part of the discussion that matters, which is where Michel was ranked in relation to Chubb. Your only resort was to critique my use of the English language. I acknowledge your surrender.

Cool, so you provided me an article that has outdated information. The author wrote that on January 17, 2018, long before the Combine and Pro Days.



Meanwhile all four of my examples are with updated information as of April of that year, the same month of the draft. Here’s that post again if you missed it the first time.

Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

In 42 games with the Patriots Sony has averaged... 14.8 carries per game 64yds per game 4.3 per carry .48 TDs per game Those numbers are perfectly respectable for a late 1st rd draft pick. except Chubb looks like a 10 year all pro with 1500 yard 15 TD seasons. And he came from the same...

www.patsfans.com

Going to need to do your homework a lot better than that, Professor. Hold this L.

 

[venecol]

You think with all the money Bill has, he'd have a better set up than this.

What do you mean? That's actually a 3D chess table where he practices daily with Linda & Nike.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In other words, you have no leg to stand on with regards to the only part of the discussion that matters, which is where Michel was ranked in relation to Chubb. Your only resort was to critique my use of the English language. I acknowledge your surrender.

Cool, so you provided me an article that has outdated information. The author wrote that on January 17, 2018, long before the Combine and Pro Days.



Meanwhile all four of my examples are with updated information as of April of that year, the same month of the draft. Here’s that post again if you missed it the first time.

Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

In 42 games with the Patriots Sony has averaged... 14.8 carries per game 64yds per game 4.3 per carry .48 TDs per game Those numbers are perfectly respectable for a late 1st rd draft pick. except Chubb looks like a 10 year all pro with 1500 yard 15 TD seasons. And he came from the same...

www.patsfans.com

Going to need to do your homework a lot better than that, Professor. Hold this L.

I enjoy watching posters pancake Deus. Well done.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I enjoy watching posters pancake Deus. Well done.

Why do some of you guys give Deus such a hard time? What’s the back story on this.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

My username should indicate I know UGA football pretty well. Both Sony and Chubb saw a lot of stacked boxes because UGA didn’t even try to hide that they were going to run for years. I personally would have preferred Chubb because stylistically I felt he was a better fit for what the Pats do. I will say this...Sony’s lack of explosive plays he perplexed me because that’s what he was in college. The big play back.

 

[50-yard-line]

My username should indicate I know UGA football pretty well. Both Sony and Chubb saw a lot of stacked boxes because UGA didn’t even try to hide that they were going to run for years. I personally would have preferred Chubb because stylistically I felt he was a better fit for what the Pats do. I will say this...Sony’s lack of explosive plays he perplexed me because that’s what he was in college. The big play back.

Sony was considered, and still is, the better pass protector, which is a huge checkmark in BB's book.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Sony was considered, and still is, the better pass protector, which is a huge checkmark in BB's book.

Good point.

 

[Joker]

Do you still own a Betamax?

This is a truly perfect response...LMAO....Rung .6 will claim HE does...

 

[RobertWeathers]

My username should indicate I know UGA football pretty well. Both Sony and Chubb saw a lot of stacked boxes because UGA didn’t even try to hide that they were going to run for years. I personally would have preferred Chubb because stylistically I felt he was a better fit for what the Pats do. I will say this...Sony’s lack of explosive plays he perplexed me because that’s what he was in college. The big play back.

Agree and most of us wanted Chubb. Clearly we were right

...but i'm not crying like others because Sony was taken. Thus far his career has been decent and he helped the team win a SB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why do some of you guys give Deus such a hard time? What’s the back story on this.

Because hes a smarmy douchbag and he sure as hell isn't a fan of the team.