Interesting development on the Jimmy G front

[resdubwhite]

Its got to be conditional picks surely. And I'm not sure even with injury history and patchy play he's worth a 2nd. I'd give a 4th this year and conditional pick next. There's a rebuild needed here. No way should this be a 1st.

 

[lancerman]

Even take that season out and we went 3-1 with a mix of Jimmy/Brissett in 2016. Now that was a super bowl winning team with Brady.

But, the point is that if Bill has a good TEAM he can win games with other QBs. Now, I'm not saying contend. Because brady was the difference between a winning season and a super bowl.

But he can win games as long as he has a competent starter and a solid team.last year we were missing both.

We went 3-1 on a team that had one loss the rest of the way with Brady. So you have a team that went 16-0 with Brady and another team that likely goes 15-1 with Brady (Brady eviscerated Buffalo who we lost to in week 4).

So you have two stacked SB teams that would have had amongst the best records ever with Brady involved

 

[RIpats88]

We went 3-1 on a team that had one loss the rest of the way with Brady. So you have a team that went 16-0 with Brady and another team that likely goes 15-1 with Brady (Brady eviscerated Buffalo who we lost to in week 4).

So you have two stacked SB teams that would have had amongst the best records ever with Brady involved

Doesn't negate my point though that if Bill puts a solid roster together he can win with a slightly above average QB. I thought that is what the discussion was.

Can bill win NFL games without brady. The answer is yes, if the QB is above average and his roster has talent.

This isn't an argument of how much better brady is than Jimmy or another QB.

 

[amfootball]

Its got to be conditional picks surely. And I'm not sure even with injury history and patchy play he's worth a 2nd. I'd give a 4th this year and conditional pick next. There's a rebuild needed here. No way should this be a 1st.

I agree. I am interested to see what Jimmy's market is. I do think if he is released, he will have suitors willing to pay him north of $20 mil. That being said, if he truly is our A plan than we should give a #2 to get him. I don't think he is worth that but if we value him that much as a bridge QB than we should do it. Don't mess with the most important position.

 

[venecol]

Doesn't negate my point though that if Bill puts a solid roster together he can win with a slightly above average QB. I thought that is what the discussion was.

Can bill win NFL games without brady. The answer is yes, if the QB is above average and his roster has talent.

This isn't an argument of how much better brady is than Jimmy or another QB.

I think the point is the team is nowhere at the level of those years. YET.

 

[amfootball]

Doesn't negate my point though that if Bill puts a solid roster together he can win with a slightly above average QB. I thought that is what the discussion was.

Can bill win NFL games without brady. The answer is yes, if the QB is above average and his roster has talent.

This isn't an argument of how much better brady is than Jimmy or another QB.

Winning games is one thing, winning chips is a whole different ball game.

 

[RIpats88]

I think the point is the team is nowhere at the level of those years. YET.

I agree, but the question I originally responded to was could Bill win with a QB not at the level of brady. Not whether the roster is ready to win now. And the answer is, yes he can win if he can build a solid roster. Would that roster be better with Brady? Yes, but he still can win games if he has an NFL QB.

For some reason if you mention that the Bucs are a very talented team, people come out in droves to tell you why they weren't really that talented.

But if you mention how Bill did win games without brady then the argument is "well the teams were talented so they don't count"

 

[venecol]

The Pats are not going to have to “sell the farm”. Everyone wants something for nothing, but that’s not how the world works. There’s a significant value to the Patriots of getting this done before free agency. You will not get any skill players to come here as free agents without a QB in place if the player has another good option.

Say the compensation is the Pats 2nd and a conditional pick next year. I’m sure a lot of you would say that’s too much for Jimmy Garoppolo. But, would you think it’s too much to give up for Jimmy G, Kenny Golladay, and Jonnu Smith?

I've been saying this but why can't they get WR/TE in the draft? They can build up DL, LB, OL in FAcy. QB? Who knows.

 

[venecol]

I agree, but the question I originally responded to was could Bill win with a QB not at the level of brady. Not whether the roster is ready to win now. And the answer is, yes he can win if he can build a solid roster. Would that roster be better with Brady? Yes, but he still can win games if he has an NFL QB.

For some reason if you mention that the Bucs are a very talented team, people come out in droves to tell you why they weren't really that talented.

But if you mention how Bill did win games without brady then the argument is "well the teams were talented so they don't count"

Ok I get it and I agree that Bill can win games. Jesus they won 7 last season with that lowly roster.

Can Bill put together a solid roster with a 10-15 QB and win a SB is yet to be determined. I hope so because that's what he's gonna have to do.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Ok I get it and I agree that Bill can win games. Jesus they won 7 last season with that lowly roster.

Can Bill put together a solid roster with a 10-15 QB and win a SB is yet to be determined. I hope so because that's what he's gonna have to do.

It’s a tough evaluation to make right now. Bb’s had 3 seasons here so far without Brady. 2000 and 2020 were full blown rebuilding years coming off tough situations with the cap and 2020 was further complicated with Covid. 2008 he went 11-5 but the schedule was more or less a joke. And Cleveland is Cleveland. It will take a few years to fully evaluate but I’ve got faith he can build a winner if he sticks around that long!

 

[venecol]

It’s a tough evaluation to make right now. Bb’s had 3 seasons here so far without Brady. 2000 and 2020 were full blown rebuilding years coming off tough situations with the cap and 2020 was further complicated with Covid. 2008 he went 11-5 but the schedule was more or less a joke. And Cleveland is Cleveland. It will take a few years to fully evaluate but I’ve got faith he can build a winner if he sticks around that long!

Agree. Yes, that's the real question. He'll be 69 this season. How much longer does he coach after 70? There's only been 3 coaches (Pete Carroll is 70) that have done it, I think.

If he coaches to 72 (4 more years), he would need to win an average of 12 gpy to tie Shula (retired at 65) on the wins column. I would think that's a goal for him but it's a tough ask.

 

[Steve102]

I've been saying this but why can't they get WR/TE in the draft? They can build up DL, LB, OL in FAcy. QB? Who knows.

They can't draft a WR because Bill sucks at it. Just go get Kenny Galloday or whatever the hell his name is. TY Hilton, Golden Tate... someone. Eff the draft when it comes to wideouts. Fill the rest of the needs there. As far as FA's not wanting to come here because there is no QB...

 

[lancerman]

I agree. I am interested to see what Jimmy's market is. I do think if he is released, he will have suitors willing to pay him north of $20 mil. That being said, if he truly is our A plan than we should give a #2 to get him. I don't think he is worth that but if we value him that much as a bridge QB than we should do it. Don't mess with the most important position.

Again you are talking about the two most winning teams the spare ever had in franchise history. It’s less likely we are at that level in the next 5 years than not. And one of those years we missed the playoffs. The goal is a title, not win enough to look good

 

[venecol]

They can't draft a WR because Bill sucks at it. Just go get Kenny Galloday or whatever the hell his name is. TY Hilton, Golden Tate... someone. Eff the draft when it comes to wideouts. Fill the rest of the needs there. As far as FA's not wanting to come here because there is no QB...

Oh I agree. It's all good but that's not Bill. He's a Damyere Bird, Marquise Lee type of guy. I don't see him paying more than $7M for anyone. He'd rather have 3 or 4, $3M guys than one $12M guy. He's salivating looking at all the free agents in the 15+ category that he can get for cheap. I hope he doesn't but wouldn't be surprised if he continues dipping in the dumpster for value.

 

[ralmat55]

I've been saying this but why can't they get WR/TE in the draft? They can build up DL, LB, OL in FAcy. QB? Who knows.

You’re in a free agency period where only a few teams have any real money to spend, and the Patriots are one of them. If, say, Golladay, Tomlinson and Smith were included in this year’s draft, would they be taken in the 1st round?

The Patriots are in a situation where they perhaps can sign 4 or 5 of the top 20 available free agents. Players of a caliber that if they were in this draft wouldn’t make it out of the top 20 picks. You’re going to be able to sign a quality of player that won’t be available to you in the draft, and you can sign more of them. It would be foolish to not avail yourself fully of the opportunity by trying to get the QB you need anyway on the cheap.

In short, I’d rather trade a 2nd round pick plus now for Garappolo, a top FA WR, and a top FA TE rather than trade a 4th rounder a month from now for just Garappolo.

 

[venecol]

I agree. I am interested to see what Jimmy's market is. I do think if he is released, he will have suitors willing to pay him north of $20 mil. That being said, if he truly is our A plan than we should give a #2 to get him. I don't think he is worth that but if we value him that much as a bridge QB than we should do it. Don't mess with the most important position.

This notion that the Pats are going to start concentrating on JG this week and he's our A Plan is weird. He's under contract so it's not like they can even talk to him. So they have to reach out to Lynch and convince him to send him back with whatever offer but then Lynch needs to convince Jimmy to agree to whatever he may agree to with Bill? This sounds like a long shot at best. Then there's the fact 49ers would lose their starting QB. So a third team would need to be brought in to the deal somehow? Even if they can put all of this together, someone is getting royally f**ked. If this is Plan A, we're f**ked.

 

[Triumph]

They can't draft a WR because Bill sucks at it. Just go get Kenny Galloday or whatever the hell his name is. TY Hilton, Golden Tate... someone. Eff the draft when it comes to wideouts. Fill the rest of the needs there. As far as FA's not wanting to come here because there is no QB...

Will Fuller is better than Golliday and he would come here already knowing the NE offense.

Will Fuller - stats

Will Fuller - stats

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Triumph]

Corey Davis?

Corey Davis - stats

Corey Davis - stats

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Deus Irae]

Even take that season out and we went 3-1 with a mix of Jimmy/Brissett in 2016. Now that was a super bowl winning team with Brady.

But, the point is that if Bill has a good TEAM he can win games with other QBs. Now, I'm not saying contend. Because brady was the difference between a winning season and a super bowl.

But he can win games as long as he has a competent starter and a solid team.last year we were missing both.

"Even take that season out" and you're talking about a 4 game stretch against 4 mediocrities (7-8-1, 10-6 team coached by Gase, 9-7, 7-9). But, to repeat what I said, which was about 2008:

It's amazing that people are still trying to use this as a BB brag. It's been more than a decade. You'd think people would have learned by now.

 

[50-yard-line]

It’s a tough evaluation to make right now. Bb’s had 3 seasons here so far without Brady. 2000 and 2020 were full blown rebuilding years coming off tough situations with the cap and 2020 was further complicated with Covid. 2008 he went 11-5 but the schedule was more or less a joke. And Cleveland is Cleveland. It will take a few years to fully evaluate but I’ve got faith he can build a winner if he sticks around that long!

In 2008, they went 11-5 and lost the division/playoffs on a ridiculous tiebreaker.

They didn't go into that season without an all-world QB. They lost him in the first game. That's a very different thing.