OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Deus Irae]

There’s a lot more WR’s out there than linebackers

That's not correct. There are more suitable replacements for David than there are for Godwin, and that's coming from someone who's long been a fan of David's, and who spent years calling for BB to find a way to get David in an attempt to improve the Patriots LB corps against the pass. That's the whole point. That's why I've had David as the #2 priority, and Godwin as the #1 priority.

 

[venecol]

Here's the market values for Corey Davis (26 yo, #5 overall):



Samuels (24 yo, #40 overall):



And Godwin (25 yo, #84 overall):



Not sure why Davis, a former #5 is so cheap.

 

[gobesmug]

They'd be going from Godwin to AB which is a wash, Tate’s just there cause people think AB will get suspended or something




There’s a lot more WR’s out there than linebackers, David let’s white do what he does and is phenomenal in pass coverage. Godwin isn’t even there WR1 I don’t get the hype of paying him and losing David. Instead of giving Godwin 16 mill you can give AB 4mill, Succop 3.5 mill, Gronk 5 mill, and Suh 5mill. But no let’s tag our WR2 just isn’t smart

There is Zero chance that AB and Gronk take that little to pay. Gronk has already said he is looking forward to experiencing FA for the first time in his career.

I could see the Jaguars offering Gronk 12mil+ a year. I think it takes 10mil a year to retain Gronk maybe 8mil if Brady begs.

AB might be a basket case but he proved he still is talented. He won't get a guaranteed contract from anyone, but he will still easily get a 8mil+ offer from someone.

I say that with confidence because if Gronk was willing to take 5mil and AB 3mil then the Bucs already would have made that happen, because such a gross underpay would help in negotiations with the big 3.

 

[gobesmug]

OBJ doesn't work. OBJ is not a Welker. Now, as a consolation prize, it might be doable. But that's not the same thing.

And OBJ would cost additional resources (you mentioned the 3rd rounder), which would be a needless expenditure of assets since you can keep Godwin with just money. Remember, the cap will be going up next year.

Godwin is not a Welker, not by a mile. Completely different style of play. Welker was about insane quickness and lateral agility that allowed him to abuse DBs and LBs within the 5 yard line.

Godwin is very different slot wr. He is a great blocker, much better than welker, but doesn't come close to the short burst agility Welker had. 86 catches fails massively short of the 120+ catches Welker would get.

Moss is a terrible comparison for Evans as well.

Evans and Godwin are great receivers and the best duo in the NFL but for very different reasons than Moss and Welker.

Brady is the GOAT, he could make do with a slight downgrade from Godwin. Again I'm hoping that isn't the case but you have to be pragmatic about the situation. David at 12mil is > than Godwin at 17mil.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's the market values for Corey Davis (26 yo, #5 overall):

View attachment 30918

Samuels (24 yo, #40 overall):

View attachment 30917

And Godwin (25 yo, #84 overall):

View attachment 30919

Not sure why Davis, a former #5 is so cheap.

Because he's been a very inconsistent player.

 

[Deus Irae]

Godwin is not a Welker, not by a mile. Completely different style of play. Welker was about insane quickness and lateral agility that allowed him to abuse DBs and LBs within the 5 yard line.

Godwin is very different slot wr. He is a great blocker, much better than welker, but doesn't come close to the short burst agility Welker had. 86 catches fails massively short of the 120+ catches Welker would get.

Moss is a terrible comparison for Evans as well.

Evans and Godwin are great receivers and the best duo in the NFL but for very different reasons than Moss and Welker.

Brady is the GOAT, he could make do with a slight downgrade from Godwin. Again I'm hoping that isn't the case but you have to be pragmatic about the situation. David at 12mil is > than Godwin at 17mil.

I mean, come on. Yes, Godwin was a "Welker". Yes, Evans was a "Moss". That's beyond question.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

There is Zero chance that AB and Gronk take that little to pay. Gronk has already said he is looking forward to experiencing FA for the first time in his career.

I could see the Jaguars offering Gronk 12mil+ a year. I think it takes 10mil a year to retain Gronk maybe 8mil if Brady begs.

AB might be a basket case but he proved he still is talented. He won't get a guaranteed contract from anyone, but he will still easily get a 8mil+ offer from someone.

I say that with confidence because if Gronk was willing to take 5mil and AB 3mil then the Bucs already would have made that happen, because such a gross underpay would help in negotiations with the big 3.

Who said AB taking 3 million? Also AB is about to be 33. The Bucs front office know what they’re doing. They will get someone to replace AB cheap if he leaves.

 

[gobesmug]

Because he's been a very inconsistent player.

Yeah Davis is nothing special. He was immediately outplayed by AJ Brown in his rookie season.

 

[gobesmug]

Who said AB taking 3 million? Also AB is about to be 33. The Bucs front office know what they’re doing. They will get someone to replace AB cheap if he leaves.

Delusional Buc fans. Did you see the post I replied to? If you check out the different Buc forums they are convinced that AB will cost between 3-5 mil and Gronk 4-6 mil.

That's just not gonna happen. AB won't get a guaranteed contract but after keeping clean this past season he should get at the very least a contract incentive laden worth 10+mil. I could see him staying for the Bucs for 8-10mil a year.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Delusional Buc fans. Did you see the post I replied to? If you check out the different Buc forums they are convinced that AB will cost between 3-5 mil and Gronk 4-6 mil.

That's just not gonna happen. AB won't get a guaranteed contract but after keeping clean this past season he should get at the very least a contract incentive laden worth 10+mil. I could see him staying for the Bucs for 8-10mil a year.

That’s my point dude. You’re thick between the ears. He won’t be getting anything under 10 but you know there’s risks involved with AB. He kept his nose clean. He’s also much older now. One thing about brown as well is he still capable of playing as a number 1 or 2? We don’t know that.

 

[gobesmug]

That’s my point dude. You’re thick between the ears. He won’t be getting anything under 10 but you know there’s risks involved with AB. He kept his nose clean. He’s also much older now. One thing about brown as well is he still capable of playing as a number 1 or 2? We don’t know that.

I answered your question about who is saying 3 mil a year, as I was responding to a Buc fan who said they should keep AB for 4mil, Suh for 5mil, Gronk for 5mil and Succop for 3.5mil instead of Godwin at 17.5mil.

I was pointing out how there was zero chance of that happening.

Clearly you are the one thick between the ears.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

I answered your question about who is saying 3 mil a year, as I was responding to a Buc fan who said they should keep AB for 4mil, Suh for 5mil, Gronk for 5mil and Succop for 3.5mil instead of Godwin at 17.5mil.

I was pointing out how there was zero chance of that happening.

Clearly you are the one thick between the ears.

Lol. AB’s best days are clearly behind him I feel but he’s a very good route runner which might negate his lack of lost explosion.

 

[gobesmug]

Lol. AB’s best days are clearly behind him I feel but he’s a very good route runner which might negate his lack of lost explosion.

They are definitely behind him but he is still one of the best route runners. His TD in the Superbowl against the Honey badger was a perfect example of that.

I could see the Packers taking the risk to make Rodgers happy. Who knows, it's an exciting FA this year that's for sure. Lots of great players will be available due to the cap being smaller due to covid.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the presence/absence of extensions/restructures for Brady/Jensen/Smith/Evans/JPP in the next week, along with any movement regarding Howard and Gholston, will give us a window into how many of their own top players the Bucs are actually looking to keep. Those moves are where the money for keeping players is most likely to be found.

 

[carmelo15]

There is Zero chance that AB and Gronk take that little to pay. Gronk has already said he is looking forward to experiencing FA for the first time in his career.

I could see the Jaguars offering Gronk 12mil+ a year. I think it takes 10mil a year to retain Gronk maybe 8mil if Brady begs.

AB might be a basket case but he proved he still is talented. He won't get a guaranteed contract from anyone, but he will still easily get a 8mil+ offer from someone.

I say that with confidence because if Gronk was willing to take 5mil and AB 3mil then the Bucs already would have made that happen, because such a gross underpay would help in negotiations with the big 3.

Gronk at 10 million or 12 lol laughable and dudes not playing anywhere without Brady he’s made that clear so some phantom team offering him 12 million isn’t happening

 

[gobesmug]

Gronk at 10 million or 12 lol laughable and dudes not playing anywhere without Brady he’s made that clear so some phantom team offering him 12 million isn’t happening

What's laughable is you thinking Gronk will put his body through abuse for only 5mil. Again if 5 mil is all it took he would have already been re-signed.

 

[Tony2046]

I find it highly amusing when people ignore Godwin's actual role with the Bucs this past season, and just blythely assume that acceptable substitutes are just lying around the ground like rocks on a New Hampshire mountainside. They ignore that, even with the addition of AB, Godwin caught passes on an 87 reception pace. So let me try to translate Godwin to the Patriots, again, in the hopes of it becoming more clear:


Evans is Moss
Godwin is Welker


And it's not about actual "worth". Almost without exception, neither the franchise tag nor day one free agency is about actual "worth". If AB could be counted on for all of 2021, the equation would be different, but you cannot have AB as a required, top 2 WR, piece on your team. He has to be a bonus player.

So you need a Welker to replace the Bucs' Welker (Godwin), and there sure as hell are not a plethora of them available in FA this year.



Edit: I forgot to note the following, but it's a big part of the point:

Chris Godwin first downs:
2018: 48
2019: 63 (in 14 games)
2020: 43 (on pace for 57 in a full season)

I'm not going to get into the cap implications although I respect them but I always value chemistry which takes time to develop. Keeping Godwin and as much of the offense together as possible makes complete sense when considering that the Bucs window with Brady is relatively small. Win now.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not going to get into the cap implications although I respect them but I always value chemistry which takes time to develop. Keeping Godwin and as much of the offense together as possible makes complete sense when considering that the Bucs window with Brady is relatively small. Win now.

I think that's a fair approach. On the other hand, Brady might end up just pissing off every other QB in the league by deciding to change his goal to playing until at least 50, and racking up a few more Lombardis.

 

[gobesmug]

I think that's a fair approach. On the other hand, Brady might end up just pissing off every other QB in the league by deciding to change his goal to playing until at least 50, and racking up a few more Lombardis.

He wants TB12 to mean 12 rings. 5 more to go.

 

[venecol]

Because he's been a very inconsistent player.

Probably, but you've got to admit that both Samuels and Davis are both much better receivers than the jags (minus JE11) Brady had his last few years in NE. Which isn't saying much.