OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[venecol]

Yeah probably not the best example. But once the shine wears off and the Bucs have to make hard decisions of who they want to keep and set a dollar value on someone. Alot of these guys are going to go for the most money when other teams are offering them millions more and more years.

We see it happen every year with super bowl winners

I guess it depends on who and where is offering more. Listening to Shaq, he said: "we like it here in Tampa, I don't want to go somewhere else and struggle to get into the playoffs, I like being able to get into the playoffs and having a chance."

So, it sounds like whatever team offers more $$ has to be a contender and probably in a warm climate city. That leaves out a lot of teams. Is a couple of Million average per year worth staying in Tampa? What effect is the additional money considering FL has no state income tax, if the offer is coming say from a CA team?

I think they can "mostly" make it work, and keep the team together. The only one I question is Godwin because he's young and will probably want to max out.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There were definitely some plays where the line got so blown up, he had no chance.

But on many plays, it was the backpedaling, dodging, and scrambling that caused the line to break down like four defenders to get into the backfield, causing a perception that every blocker got destroyed from the get go. After he made the first guy miss and stepped away, he still continued to hold the ball before the whole thing flooded. You just have to know that doesn't work. It didn't work for in 3rd grade playing on the playground either. It just made it worse.

I'll watch the video when I get a chance though and see if it meshes with what I thought I saw.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even BB the GOAT needs a QB. If Ariens, Leftwitch and Bowles can win with Brady then Bill can win with just a decent QB. Wilson would be a good choice if he could land him.

Every coach who is considered in the discussion of GOAT had highly competent QB play.

It seems a number of fans don't either know that or refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[1960Pats]

Yeah probably not the best example. But once the shine wears off and the Bucs have to make hard decisions of who they want to keep and set a dollar value on someone. Alot of these guys are going to go for the most money when other teams are offering them millions more and more years.

We see it happen every year with super bowl winners

Yes, and that could be more applicable this year when the cap is lower. They're still in good shape though and will probably be able to sign more rather than less players.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He doesn’t here. But after two decades of treating the media with contempt and crushing the souls of the other 31, he probably does in order to cement his GOAT status nationally. I think people here are in denial about how he’s viewed outside of the New England bubble. Maybe that changes when he retires (if he doesn’t win another one). Time heals all wounds. But, in the right here and now, the national perception is he has to win without Brady or else his legacy takes a hit.

I agree w/ that completely.

Perception is reality but it doesn't mean it's actuality....

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Hope brady plays two more years. If he keeps playing beyond that people will likely say he’s on PEDs.

 

[amfootball]

Hope brady plays two more years. If he keeps playing beyond that people will likely say he’s on PEDs.

People have been saying he is on PEDs for the last few years.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

Great post! So very true. I've been guilty often of looking at the Bucs free agency situation through the eyes of a 20-year dynasty strategy rather than a "let's just sign our guys because we'll win with them, don't overthink it, stupid" approach. Sometimes wisdom is indeed doing the obvious, simple thing, though years of Belichick's contrarian market approach has really warped my mind.

Though I'll still double down on not wanting Barrett. I'd love to see them save that $15M or whatever the amount is, find an undervalued OLB/DE, and then spending the remainder on other free agents. I just question if he's really a unique player worth the cost and not a guy benefitting tremendously from a dominant front 7.

 

[amfootball]

They probably don't. It's brady's intangibles that put them over the top.

I'm just saying that this argument of "look Brady dragged a 7-9 team to a superbowl" is flawed since it doesn't take into account the talent on the team. It's like saying Tampa's roster that was 7-9 is equivalent to our roster that went 7-9. They aren't equal

They just needed discipline and to learn how to win which brady brought them.

They were talented but the Saints were better than them and so was GB. They beat them both at their place.

 

[1960Pats]

Every coach who is considered in the discussion of GOAT had highly competent QB play.

It seems a number of fans don't either know that or refuse to acknowledge it.

It's always about the players to me but that doesn't mean that Bill isn't the GOAT and couldn't do a better job with less. If they could go 7-9 with the offense they had last year then the sky would be the limit with a decent QB and a few weapons.

 

[Deus Irae]

They probably don't. It's brady's intangibles that put them over the top.

I'm just saying that this argument of "look Brady dragged a 7-9 team to a superbowl" is flawed since it doesn't take into account the talent on the team. It's like saying Tampa's roster that was 7-9 is equivalent to our roster that went 7-9. They aren't equal

They just needed discipline and to learn how to win which brady brought them.

It's not flawed. The Bucs really were 7-9 the year before Brady arrived. Your argument is just a lame attempt at justification.

 

[jujubee576]

Anyone trying to use revisionist history to imply the Bucs were just a QB away from winning the SB cannot be taken seriously.

No one has talked about the Bucs positively for almost 20 years and there was absolutely zero talk of all their talent (outside Evans, Godwin, and Lavonte, and the interior D-line). Even as recently as November, people were calling the team trash and deficient in many areas, including coaching. The secondary was ranked 32nd in the league coming into the year, O-line play was a mess and obviously Jameis giving the ball away as much as he scored was a huge issue. To say Tom went to a team that was loaded is a pile of ****. You weren’t saying it 10 months ago so please spare us all the revisionist history because you’re trying to come up with hypotheticals that if Bill (or any QB) went to Tampa, they’d also win.

Anyways, the six big free agents all seem to really, really wanna stay. Possibly championship hangover but Licht seems very confident on being able to make it happen.

 

[RicoG]

It's just a poor argument to say tampa is not a talented team. On offense they may be the most stacked team he has been on since 2007. There is a reason he chose to go there. And not so he could "drag them to a championship" because they have a roster that's ready to win now with studs all over the place that gives him the best chance to win.

If Brady can do it all by himself why didn't he drag the 2019 Patriots to a super bowl?

On defense they have names all over the place. There is a reason brady picked Tampa. He elevated them to a championship yes. But using their records with winston who is a horrible QB is a poor argument

However, Brady didn't have much choice either. It was only TB and Chargers who made a serious offer.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He isn't playing for another team.

This is his last stop.

You might be right. but if there's one guy who can convince him to sign with another team, it's Robert Kraft...even if it's for 1 year.

 

[RIpats88]

It's not flawed. The Bucs really were 7-9 the year before Brady arrived. Your argument is just a lame attempt at justification.

Okay, you are right. bucs have no talent. They are trash. Mike evans and Chris godwin really aren't top receivers in the game. Brady literally made them who they are.

Brady himself is the one who put that much pressure on Mahomes. And held Rodgers/brees at Bay.

Brady did it single handedly. He didn't just elevate a stacked talented team to a superbowl contender.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

People have been saying he is on PEDs for the last few years.

Without any proof. Playing at 40 and beyond is nothing new. We have seen the likes of warren moon do it. He’s also benefits from having a running game and good protection. Gets rid of the ball quickly. Never had any major injuries in terms of his arm.

 

[Deus Irae]

Okay, you are right. bucs have no talent. They are trash. Mike evans and Chris godwin really aren't top receivers in the game. Brady literally made them who they are.

Brady himself is the one who put that much pressure on Mahomes. And held Rodgers/brees at Bay.

Brady did it single handedly. He didn't just elevate a stacked talented team to a superbowl contender.

Your doing that thing where you take absurd positions, again. Step away from the keyboard. Have a soothing drink. Use that time to actually think about your arguments. Realize that your arguments suck.

Then come back with better arguments, or just let the whole thing drop.

 

[amfootball]

Okay, you are right. bucs have no talent. They are trash. Mike evans and Chris godwin really aren't top receivers in the game. Brady literally made them who they are.

Brady himself is the one who put that much pressure on Mahomes. And held Rodgers/brees at Bay.

Brady did it single handedly. He didn't just elevate a stacked talented team to a superbowl contender.

I think you are under estimating just how hard it is to elevate a team, even a talented team to the SB. The Raiders are stacked, the Chargers are stacked, the Saints and Green Bay were stacked. The Bucs have been mired in losing for almost 2 decades. They were the most penalized teams in football last year and started off this season making dumb penalties. This was a complete overhaul of the culture and make up of the team. It still amazes me how the team morphed into a SB team just as the playoffs began just like the Pats of 2018. That's Brady's effect.

 

[RIpats88]

Anyone trying to use revisionist history to imply the Bucs were just a QB away from winning the SB cannot be taken seriously.

No one has talked about the Bucs positively for almost 20 years and there was absolutely zero talk of all their talent (outside Evans, Godwin, and Lavonte, and the interior D-line). Even as recently as November, people were calling the team trash and deficient in many areas, including coaching. The secondary was ranked 32nd in the league coming into the year, O-line play was a mess and obviously Jameis giving the ball away as much as he scored was a huge issue. To say Tom went to a team that was loaded is a pile of ****. You weren’t saying it 10 months ago so please spare us all the revisionist history because you’re trying to come up with hypotheticals that if Bill (or any QB) went to Tampa, they’d also win.

Anyways, the six big free agents all seem to really, really wanna stay. Possibly championship hangover but Licht seems very confident on being able to make it happen.

Even the media was declaring how stacked their offense was in the offseason. No one is arguing they were a loser franchise

There's 2 arguments going on here.

1. Ignore that Mike evans, antonio brown, Chris godwin, Gronk, JPP, Suh, Barrett, brate, on howard, fournette are really good players.

2. Accept they have talent on their team and Brady brought them to a different level because he is the GOAT.

But to peddle this narrative that Brady dragged a trash roster to a championship is ridiculous. 2019 Patriots we're a trash roster. 2020 Patriots we're a trash roster and Brady is not dragging either of them to a championship of he's there

 

[Zarozzor]

I love how some people are acting like the Buccaneers were stacked and the huge favorite before the season and during the season. I’m pretty sure most had

Kansas City
Baltimore
New Orleans
Green Bay
Seattle

All with better shots to win the Super Bowl. I know the first three were picked by most people before the season.