OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Guts]

Yeah he played horrible. I give him a D for the game. It would be an F if it weren't him being down his two tackles. He had wide open guys in the flat and would totally ignore the easy dink and dunk passes trying to play backyard football. Two superbowls were he has been awful for 7/8 of the quarters.

 

[AlexB]

I think Brady signs a 1 year extension at most and he'll reflect on whether he wants to play past 45 when the time comes. 4 year extension means he'll be signed through age 48.

As I mentioned, the extensions can be any mix of real and voidable years. So it could be a 1 year real extension and 3 voidable years, or 2 real years and 2 voidable, etc. I'm trying to illustrate the flexibility the Bucs have with the cap, and under my assumptions they'd have a lot of leftover cap even after re-signing everyone. Realistically, even a 2 or 3 year extension (real + fake years) would be more than sufficient.

 

[venecol]

I think Brady signs a 1 year extension at most and he'll reflect on whether he wants to play past 45 when the time comes. 4 year extension means he'll be signed through age 48.

You were 100% positive that what just happened wasn't going to happen, until you saw it with your eyes. I'm a gonna start calling you Doubting Thomas.

 

[AlexB]

This was an excellent breakdown. I hope you don't mind but I am going to steal it and attribute it to you.

I think you are spot on in terms of strategy. The Bucs are not trying to build a 20 year dynasty. They are trying to win as much as they can with the GOAT for as long as he wants to play and can still play at a high level. Their GM spoke yesterday about keeping everyone and making a legit run at the chip next year. That has to be music to both Brady and Gronk's ears.

Sure, go ahead

 

[Triumph]

I still find it interesting people think that.

Why?

People say that Parcells never won a Super Bowl without Belichick and it's true.

Today, Belichick the head coach has never won a thing without Brady.

 

[amfootball]

Yeah he played horrible. I give him a D for the game. It would be an F if it weren't him being down his two tackles. He had wide open guys in the flat and would totally ignore the easy dink and dunk passes trying to play backyard football. Two superbowls were he has been awful for 7/8 of the quarters.

I agree. Two SBs - 2 TDs to 4 picks. Those are legacy damaging stats especially when you get trucked by a team you were favored to beat. He did take off a lot and never stepped up in the pocket and take the easy throw.

I went back and watched the entire game as it is on YouTube now and it is amazing to watch Brady hit Fournette and Gronk time and time again and then audible to runs vs the deep safety look. No one seems to mention that the Chiefs defense took away both Evans and Godwin. AB only had 22 receiving yards. The Chiefs D did a great job with almost all of Tampa's stars but Tom worked the other guys to ensure the ball kept moving. The Saints played 2 deep safeties and Brady ran on them and took the check downs. Amazingly he gets criticized for this because he does not have any highlight reel throws or runs around like a hyena. He is so methodical. He has the D figured out before the ball is snapped. Also, the Bucs could have scored over 40 points but they were content to just run in the 4th given it was 31-9. Brady getting the team up 21-6 at half is what allowed the defense to pin its ears back and come after Mahomes.

 

[Kargetina]

Mahomes is the Deontay Wilder of QB’s. He’s technically unsound, breaks every rule of playing the position but he has a cannon of an arm and All Pro players that can score in 5 seconds so all of his faults are in the background. He plays Madden football. People don’t care about the x’s and o’s. They care about running like a headless chicken and throwing passes while falling down because that’s the real measure of great QB’s. Just like dunking from the free throw line is a sign of a great basketball player.

Brady is like Mayweather. Not the fastest, or the strongest, or the biggest puncher but incredibly intelligent at finding the right strategy for the right opponent. If it’s 5 yards passes, so be it, if the running backs are kicking ass, he would step aside and feed them, the goal is to be as efficient as possible and win, not to impress 20-year olds.

It would be very eye opening if Mahomes ever had a WR crew of Edelman, Hogan, Dorsett and Patterson. Brady scored 37 points on the road in the AFCCG with that crew because that’s what was required to win. Mahomes would have a brain aneurysm in the first half of the first game when no one gets open and he has no home run option.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes level of play has declined every year since 2018. Defenses are figuring him out.

 

[AlexB]

Take Brady out, and give him just a 1-2 year extension. It lowers the savings, but is probably more realistic.


The, you can add Donovan Smith getting an extension. He's 29, in the last year of a clean contract, and playing with Brady helped him become a better player as the year went on. He even started showing a tiny bit of effort, which is a huge change for him. Alternately, and this is just a spitballing moment, they could look to a tackle-for-tackle trade with the Ravens, since Brown wants out of Baltimore. If that trade went through clean, it would be a money difference of more than $10m on the cap.

Yeah, I left Donovan Smith out because I wasn't sure if they'd want to commit to him longer term, but he's another major source of potential savings.

With Brady's extension I was mainly illustrating the maximum firepower the Bucs have. Agree that 2 or 3 years (maybe including a voidable year) is more realistic and they probably don't need to convert all his salary/ roster bonus above the minimum to signing bonus. In my example, I still had ~$35m of cap space left after re-signing all their free agents and they won't need that full amount. Bottom line is that there's no reason from a cap perspective why they can't return everyone.

 

[Kontradiction]

Want - yes.

Does BB need to validate his status as GOAT coach? Absolutely not

He doesn’t here. But after two decades of treating the media with contempt and crushing the souls of the other 31, he probably does in order to cement his GOAT status nationally. I think people here are in denial about how he’s viewed outside of the New England bubble. Maybe that changes when he retires (if he doesn’t win another one). Time heals all wounds. But, in the right here and now, the national perception is he has to win without Brady or else his legacy takes a hit.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Players can do a lot of great things when you can constantly pressure with four pass rushers and sometimes three, and when you have a historically good run defense that makes the offense one dimensional.

They had six defensive backs on almost every down in the Super Bowl.

I’m not disparaging their corners...I’m pointing out that with a stud like Gilmore, they’d feast all year and would be the best defense in the league.

And his Body. Playing at his level at 43 is already unprecedented. Drew Brees fell off pretty quickly, Manning too.

Now brady hasn't had the injuries those guys did. But extrapolating a QBs play from say 30-35 is much different than 43-47

This is nothing new though. Moon played till he was in his late 40s but everything is different now. Also it depends what kind of team you’re in. Brady has a nice surrounding in tampa.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Yeah, I left Donovan Smith out because I wasn't sure if they'd want to commit to him longer term, but he's another major source of potential savings.

With Brady's extension I was mainly illustrating the maximum firepower the Bucs have. Agree that 2 or 3 years (maybe including a voidable year) is more realistic and they probably don't need to convert all his salary/ roster bonus above the minimum to signing bonus. In my example, I still had ~$35m of cap space left after re-signing all their free agents and they won't need that full amount. Bottom line is that there's no reason from a cap perspective why they can't return everyone.

They can save 14 million just by cutting him or trading him. It leaves a dent on your offensive line though. I thought he played well down the stretch.

 

[RicoG]

Brady won't win another ring.

The biggest obstacle is still Seattle. Rodgers in Dallas would be another hurdle.

Seattle has to find a way to fix that defense and running game.

Every year there are about 4 true contenders for the SB and 1 or 2 dark horses with talent entering the playoffs hot. So maybe a 1 out of 6 chance to be a champ purely from a mathematical perspective.

This year TB won the SB as a the dark horse. Next season they'll likely go into the playoffs as one of the favorites and has a good of a chance to be champs as any of the top 6 teams.

However, if you look at the intangibles Brady brings and the clutch factor, the odds become much better than 1 in 6. I'm giving it a 50/50 chance they are back in the SB next year. And if in the SB, I'd bet in them winning 100%. Their defense won't lose it at the end of the game lik 07 and 11. The D definitely won't stink up the joint like VS Philly.

 

[Deus Irae]

He doesn’t here. But after two decades of treating the media with contempt and crushing the souls of the other 31, he probably does in order to cement his GOAT status nationally. I think people here are in denial about how he’s viewed outside of the New England bubble. Maybe that changes when he retires (if he doesn’t win another one). Time heals all wounds. But, in the right here and now, the national perception is he has to win without Brady or else his legacy takes a hit.

I agree with what you're saying. You saying it opens up something I've wanted to point out. It's this:


The Brady v. Belichick argument is being warped and twisted to fit talk show desires. The actual Brady v. Belichick discussion is about which individual was more important in the Patriots dynasty. That's being warped into which one has a better NFL career post split.

The actual argument is over. The 43 year old QB taking yet another losing team to SB victory in his first year as the team's QB ended the argument. The BB camp has literally nothing to refute that. But that's not enough to serve as talk show fodder for the years to come, so we're now seeing nonsense like "But BB has a chance to show...".

So, basically, the real Brady v. Belichick argument is going to live on only in the minds of the silliest of the BB honks, and the Brady v. Belichick argument that we're going to be subjected to until Brady retires is just an offshoot to keep the chattering class happy.

 

[RicoG]

Gronk looks kinda fast again.

Unreal hands. 14 TDs in the post season.

I just listened to a Bucs podcast and the guy thinks Gronk could be had for 3 mil with a mil in incentive. Like wtf, did he not see Gronk ball out in the SB and got better as the season progress. I predict Gronk will be back at 7-8 million a year. And that is a home town discount for a TE that is still a top 3 in the league.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree with what you're saying. You saying it opens up something I've wanted to point out. It's this:


The Brady v. Belichick argument is being warped and twisted to fit talk show desires. The actual Brady v. Belichick discussion is about which individual was more important in the Patriots dynasty. That's being warped into which one has a better NFL career post split.

The actual argument is over. The 43 year old QB taking yet another losing team to SB victory in his first year as the team's QB ended the argument. The BB camp has literally nothing to refute that. But that's not enough to serve as talk show fodder for the years to come, so we're now seeing nonsense like "But BB has a chance to show...".

So, basically, the real Brady v. Belichick argument is going to live on only in the minds of the silliest of the BB honks, and the Brady v. Belichick argument that we're going to be subjected to until Brady retires is just an offshoot to keep the chattering class happy.

Yeah, I mean it’s not really something I have to prove because we’re already seeing this come to light, both in the regular media and within social media. If the Patriots have another season where they can’t get out of their own way, that chatter will get louder and louder. He will be recognized nationally, outside of New England, as the coach that rode the GOAT QB to greatness, but was a sub-.500 HC otherwise.

I think he’s the GOAT HC and not much will change my opinion of that. Players are always more important to a team’s success than coaches. The man himself has even said that multiple times. But the national perception is different. My bone to pick with him is not as a HC. It’s as a GM. Earlier in the season, I rattled off about 11-12 GMs, historically, who were unquestionably better at that job than him.

 

[RIpats88]

I agree with what you're saying. You saying it opens up something I've wanted to point out. It's this:


The Brady v. Belichick argument is being warped and twisted to fit talk show desires. The actual Brady v. Belichick discussion is about which individual was more important in the Patriots dynasty. That's being warped into which one has a better NFL career post split.

The actual argument is over. The 43 year old QB taking yet another losing team to SB victory in his first year as the team's QB ended the argument. The BB camp has literally nothing to refute that. But that's not enough to serve as talk show fodder for the years to come, so we're now seeing nonsense like "But BB has a chance to show...".

But aren't you feeding into that narrative by saying Brady showed it was him? Also feeding into the narrative that tampa was a bad team and Brady dragged them to a championship.

What if Bill wins one before he retires. Does the argument shift again?

Tampa is a very talented and stacked team on offense and defense who then added fournette, Gronk and Antonio brown. Brady brought discipline on offense and his intangibles like leadership which were enough to get them to win a championship. Brady didn't go from 25tds and a wildcard loss to 40tds and a superbowl win just out of nowhere. The talent level is alot higher on the bucs. That doesn't take anything away from brady's success in tampa

I am sure if you stick Bill on alot of talented teams like say the packers he could coach them to a championship.

Why can't we admit it was both of them together? Maybe brady wins Superbowls without Bill, maybe Bill wins without brady. But it's not 6 over 20 years. We had 2 separate dynasties with totaly separate teams.

 

[RicoG]

I don't think it's too much to ask for Bill to at least build a team that can make the playoffs and contend for titles in 2-3 years. Buffalo Bills did it in 3 years starting from exactly where we are right now so no reason why we can't do the same thing. I don't expect Bill to win a ring again but if he can rebuild this team into a good one then all will be well with his status as GOAT.

Can't separate GM Bill from Coach Bill anymore. They're one and the same.

The best chance for Bill to win a ring is for the Pat's to stay at or below .500 for the upcoming season and the season after. You're not going to get guys in the draft like Vea, Devin, and Howard at the bottom half of the draft. The Pat's need to hit in the draft, in the 1st round, and over at least 3 drafts.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Every year there are about 4 true contenders for the SB and 1 or 2 dark horses with talent entering the playoffs hot. So maybe a 1 out of 6 chance to be a champ purely from a mathematical perspective.

This year TB won the SB as a the dark horse. Next season they'll likely go into the playoffs as one of the favorites and has a good of a chance to be champs as any of the top 6 teams.

However, if you look at the intangibles Brady brings and the clutch factor, the odds become much better than 1 in 6. I'm giving it a 50/50 chance they are back in the SB next year. And if in the SB, I'd bet in them winning 100%. Their defense won't loss it at the end of the game lik 07 and 11. The D definitely won't stink up the joint like VS Philly.

He mentioned seattle. Their defense is junk. Also their o line is very shaky. I don’t see seattle winning anything soon. Don’t even have a first rounder his year. They had a good year but they where exposed in the playoffs. Tough division as well.

 

[1960Pats]

Give it a couple months and the honeymoon hangover to wear off and alot of these guys will still go for the most money. Of course at a parade most of these guys are going to say they want to run it back

In 2014 after the superbowl Revis said he would love to run it back. And then left for the Jets.

Revis is a bad example. He was the ultimate disloyal money chaser and played the Jets for all he could get.