OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[sb1]

Want - yes.

Does BB need to validate his status as GOAT coach? Absolutely not

I don't think it's too much to ask for Bill to at least build a team that can make the playoffs and contend for titles in 2-3 years. Buffalo Bills did it in 3 years starting from exactly where we are right now so no reason why we can't do the same thing. I don't expect Bill to win a ring again but if he can rebuild this team into a good one then all will be well with his status as GOAT.

Can't separate GM Bill from Coach Bill anymore. They're one and the same.

 

[RIpats88]

I still find it interesting people think that.

He doesn't have to. But I bet he wants to

 

[venecol]

Want - yes.

Does BB need to validate his status as GOAT coach? Absolutely not

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what people think, as a Pats fan I want another championship to have more than the despised Steelers. So BB needs to bring us another one. He's getting up there in years. I can't say I'm not disappointed in the lack of QB transition plan though. It is what it is. Can you imagine if he signs Jaboo and wins a SB with him? Heads would explode. Lmao

 

[PP2]

No, I'm talking about the 2 TE set running plays showing Fournette. They used a lot of PA off those looks, but the runs themselves.

They've been running those all year long.

 

[AlexB]

I don’t see how they could sign both Godwin and Barrett one will go for 19mill and Godwin 15 and that’s at a hometown discount. Succop and Davis have to get signed there now way you let them go under any circumstances and Davis will be at 12-13million.

You’re just gonna have to trust AB cause trading Godwin away and keeping AB allows you to keep Barrett, Davis, Suh, and Succop. Johnson should be better he second year and he was very good his first year and you have Miller. If AB gets suspend there WR is still average and that’s before you factor in Gronk/Howard at TE.

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

 

[venecol]

They've been running those all year long.

Barber mentioned they usually like to ground and pound but in the Fournette TD they pulled the guard to down block. I think Leftwich deserves credit for his play calling.

 

[amfootball]

I still find it interesting people think that.

I have never thought this whole silly narrative was about winning Super Bowls even though Brady did win one which is still surreal. To me it is more about the culture and sustained winning. Brady proved without a shadow of a doubt that he is a transformational player. What I want to see from Bill is not winning a SB necessarily, but I want to see the "Patriot Way" continue without Brady. This year it seemed to have taken a hit with all the excuse making (even though the excuses were valid), and poor game planning at times. I am willing to give most of it a pass just because of the cap and Covid but man, Bill really needs to hit on this draft. This isn't really about Brady at all. Our team has a zillion holes and no QB. We need an influx of talent and quick. I am also nervous that the younger generation may see Bill as a bit of a dinosaur (i.e. Winovich) and not be attracted to want to play for him. I think Stafford saying he did not want to come here is a huge red flag even though I didn't want him. Still, I will give Bill the benefit of the doubt as he has earned that but this off-season is monumental. I am excited to see what he does.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Tristan Wirfs since Week 6:

15 games
12 pressures (0 sacks, 3 hits, 9 hurries)

Context: 15-20 pressures allowed usually leads the league among tackles for a season. Wirfs played like the best tackle in football as a 21 year old rookie & deserves more recognition.

I don’t know the position as well as you, but I knew for certain he’d be a Hall of Fame level player. The Jets passed him over to pick a different guy at the same position, and that’s the biggest possible guarantee of success.

 

[amfootball]

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

This was an excellent breakdown. I hope you don't mind but I am going to steal it and attribute it to you.

I think you are spot on in terms of strategy. The Bucs are not trying to build a 20 year dynasty. They are trying to win as much as they can with the GOAT for as long as he wants to play and can still play at a high level. Their GM spoke yesterday about keeping everyone and making a legit run at the chip next year. That has to be music to both Brady and Gronk's ears.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

I think Brady signs a 1 year extension at most and he'll reflect on whether he wants to play past 45 when the time comes. 4 year extension means he'll be signed through age 48.

 

[amfootball]

I think Brady signs a 1 year extension at most and he'll reflect on whether he wants to play past 45 when the time comes. 4 year extension means he'll be signed through age 48.

He has already said that he wants to play past age 45. I think he would be thrilled if Tampa gave him that type of commitment. That is what he wanted from the Pats all along.

 

[Tony2046]

I don't care what people say. Gronk is the greatest tight end to ever play football.

Spare me the "Tony Gonzalez is the GOAT!"

Or the Kelce people who have come out of the woodworks the last two years.

If Tony Gonzalez is the GOAT then Gronk is the BOAT. Or whatever that logic was that I heard a few months ago.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He has already said that he wants to play past age 45. I think he would be thrilled if Tampa gave him that type of commitment. That is what he wanted from the Pats all along.

No, he said he would consider playing past 45. As of now, he told Jim Gray that he wants to play at least until 45. Then Alex Guerrerro said there are times when he feels like he can play until 46 or 47. With him I think it's a wait and see approach. I'm sure his family is going to have a big say in whether he should continue.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have never thought this whole silly narrative was about winning Super Bowls even though Brady did win one which is still surreal. To me it is more about the culture and sustained winning. Brady proved without a shadow of a doubt that he is a transformational player. What I want to see from Bill is not winning a SB necessarily, but I want to see the "Patriot Way" continue without Brady. This year it seemed to have taken a hit with all the excuse making (even though the excuses were valid), and poor game planning at times. I am willing to give most of it a pass just because of the cap and Covid but man, Bill really needs to hit on this draft. This isn't really about Brady at all. Our team has a zillion holes and no QB. We need an influx of talent and quick. I am also nervous that the younger generation may see Bill as a bit of a dinosaur (i.e. Winovich) and not be attracted to want to play for him. I think Stafford saying he did not want to come here is a huge red flag even though I didn't want him. Still, I will give Bill the benefit of the doubt as he has earned that but this off-season is monumental. I am excited to see what he does.

I feel the same way.

Love sniffing Bill's undies but competing for Super Bowls is more important.

 

[Tony2046]

I still find it interesting people think that.

" Bill has won more than any other coach in the history of the NFL but needs one more to prove.....blah blah blah".

 

[RIpats88]

No, he said he would consider playing past 45. As of now, he told Jim Gray that he wants to play at least until 45. Then Alex Guerrerro said there are times when he feels like he can play until 46 or 47. With him I think it's a wait and see approach. I'm sure his family is going to have a big say in whether he should continue.

And his Body. Playing at his level at 43 is already unprecedented. Drew Brees fell off pretty quickly, Manning too.

Now brady hasn't had the injuries those guys did. But extrapolating a QBs play from say 30-35 is much different than 43-47

 

[Deus Irae]

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

Take Brady out, and give him just a 1-2 year extension. It lowers the savings, but is probably more realistic.


The, you can add Donovan Smith getting an extension. He's 29, in the last year of a clean contract, and playing with Brady helped him become a better player as the year went on. He even started showing a tiny bit of effort, which is a huge change for him. Alternately, and this is just a spitballing moment, they could look to a tackle-for-tackle trade with the Ravens, since Brown wants out of Baltimore. If that trade went through clean, it would be a money difference of more than $10m on the cap.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Michael Irvin Says SB LV Audio Shows Tom Brady Did Not Call Tyrann Mathieu Racial Slur

Michael Irvin says he's heard secret audio from the Super Bowl ... and it proves Tom Brady did NOT call Tyrann Mathieu a racial slur during their trash talking at the big game.

www.tmz.com

This pisses me off. To think we even have to have this discussion thanks to Mathieu's tweet. He made it seem like TB said something racial to him

yea one of the unfortunate side effects of the social justice movement. Some people weaponize movements to use for their own petty agendas, but fortunately I think these kinds of situations are rare. The #metoo movement was another, which was overall a great movement to expose a lot of pieces of human filth, but then you have a few outlier douchebags that weaponize it to go after celebrities, athletes, etc for cash

Douchebags are gonna douche

 

[amfootball]

 

[venecol]

I think you're looking at this from the context of maintaining a team for 20 years (similar to what the Pats did), rather than maximizing a 2-3+ year window (see what the Saints have been doing). If you just want the SB window, you can absolutely bring everyone back and even add talent if you wanted to. Yes, eventually the bills will come due, but this is a franchise that only had 6 playoff wins prior to this year (now 10 playoff wins) - what do they have to lose? It's better to try to win now when they have the chance.

In order to keep everyone, they'll need to: (1) Create cap space by converting salary to signing bonuses and (2) Re-sign players with contracts that are structured with low upfront cap hits.

1. Possible Extensions (can be done using voidable years if they can't come to agreement on extension terms)
- Brady by 4 years. Convert $24m of salary/ roster to signing bonus, resulting in $19m of cap savings
-Mike Evans by 2 years, convert $11.25m of salary, resulting in $9m of cap savings
-Ryan Jensen by 4 years, savings of $7.2m
-Cameron Brate by 2 years, savings of $4.4m

Just these four extensions create $42m of cap space, resulting in total cap space of over $70m. There are also other opportunities if they need more.

2. Re-sign Godwin, David, Barrett, Gronk, Brown, Suh
- Godwin, Barrett, and David can all be signed to market deals that have a Year 1 cap hit of around $7-8m (or even less). If you want to see how these can be structured, look at similar deals signed by Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers ($18m/y deal but Year 1 cap hit of only $6.4m), Anthony Barr, and many other free agents
-Think Brown will accept a low money deal with incentives
-Gronk can be signed to a 2 year $16m deal with 3 voidable years. Year 1 base salary of $1m and $7m signing bonus (cap hit of only $2.4m). Suh will cost even less

With all of this, Bucs would still have $35m+ of cap space and could even make a couple of other moves. Now, they don't need to do every single one of these moves, but they absolutely could if they wanted to. Seems totally worth it for a franchise that hasn't won much in its history. Really, the limiting factor is how much upfront cash ownership is willing to spend.

Thanks. Are you Miguels' nephew?