Bob Kravitz writes about Deflategate [Four Games in Fall Documentary]

[lancerman]

This is dumb. Kraft did the smart thing. He had next to no legal recourse and all he could really do is make a fuss, make it much bigger than it already was, turn himself into an Al Davis level pariah where Jonathan is ****ed around forever until he does some major self sacrifice (giving up on LA when he was the only owner with a viable single path to getting it done), and he still would have lost.

Everyone going in knew Brady was pretty the only one fighting the NFL’s decision because players have some negotiated avenues as part of a union.

You don’t fight unwinnable battles with people you have to do business with fir the rest of your life.

 

[venecol]

@TommyBrady12 has gone from trolling the Tompa/Gronkaneers thread and shatting on every one of Brady's accomplishments, to actually defending and supporting the Wells report and conclusions from Deflategate against Brady.

I say those are grounds for barring him from this forum. Not only is he a pendejo but apparently a Goodell lap dog and troll.

 

[amfootball]

@TommyBrady12 has gone from trolling the Tompa/Gronkaneers thread and shatting on every one of Brady's accomplishments, to actually defending and supporting the Wells report and conclusions from Deflategate against Brady.

I say those are grounds for barring him from this forum. Not only is he a pendejo but apparently a Goodell lap dog and troll.

I agree. He should have been banned a long time ago. Very definition of a troll.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The documents they wanted were texts and emails. Wells wanted texts with other people as well, not just the ball boys. Again, Well wanted the contents of the phones, not the phones themselves, which Brady's agent confirmed. All Brady had to do was turn over any and all emails and texts that contain certain keywords like PSI, deflate, etc. The rest of his private stuff he would keep to himself. And again, the Appeals hearing before the 2nd Circuit focused almost solely on the destroyed phone.

Ultimately, Brady did turn over the contents of two of his old phones, which Wells had asked for, so I'm not buying the NFLPA precedent argument. However, the one phone that was most important to the investigation, the one Brady used around the time of the AFCCG, was destroyed the week of his meeting with Wells.

You might have had a point...but...

You continue to ignore that Brady/Yee/the Patriots had already figured out what Ted Wells was all about when they decided to stop providing him with voluntary requests for information.

Yee has stated this. They knew that Wells and the league had zero interest in any information that was favorable for Brady. They knew Wells, Pash, Goodell, and Kensil were looking to save face and justify their fake leak numbers.

The investigation was unnecessary. The Patriots and Yee knew this. The Patriots had the actual PSI numbers and not the fake ones; Wells had that information too. The Patriots had the actual science reports exonerating Brady; Wells had that information too.

Wells request was essentially this:

I know the league lied and even refuses to correct their fabricated report, hired me to drum up a case against you by falsely claiming I’m an independent investigator, and are counting on me to continue exaggerating and lying in order to conclude you are guilty. I’m really struggling because all of the physical evidence, science, and eyewitness accounts isn’t giving me what I need. Want to do me a favor? I’d like to get some of the contents of your cell phone. Thanks.

 

[Koma]

Derek Gentile: Deflategate saga doesn't end with Brady suspension

That the NFL used the "too much work" excuse and people bought it is both comical and exasperating. I don't remember the exact number, but the number of people on that list Brady's team provided was not astronomical. I want to say it was under 100, but the real point is that it wasn't 2000. They could have followed up with those people within a couple of weeks.

If Goodell believed that the people on that list had information that would incriminate Brady and made the league's case rock solid, why wouldn't they want to talk to them? Can you imagine the police using that excuse? "Yeah, we could have talked to the witnesses and solved this crime, but that would have been too much work."

 

[The Brandon Five]

You might have had a point...but...

You continue to ignore that Brady/Yee/the Patriots had already figured out what Ted Wells was all about when they decided to stop providing him with voluntary requests for information.

Yee has stated this. They knew that Wells and the league had zero interest in any information that was favorable for Brady. They knew Wells, Pash, Goodell, and Kensil were looking to save face and justify their fake leak numbers.

The investigation was unnecessary. The Patriots and Yee knew this. The Patriots had the actual PSI numbers and not the fake ones; Wells had that information too. The Patriots had the actual science reports exonerating Brady; Wells had that information too.

Wells request was essentially this:

I know the league lied and even refuses to correct their fabricated report, hired me to drum up a case against you by falsely claiming I’m an independent investigator, and are counting on me to continue exaggerating and lying in order to conclude you are guilty. I’m really struggling because all of the physical evidence, science, and eyewitness accounts isn’t giving me what I need. Want to do me a favor? I’d like to get some of the contents of your cell phone. Thanks.

I'm in love with this post. I might propose.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

What “documents”? FFS, they had all the text messages already from McNally and Jasztremski.

The NFLPA absolutely did not want Brady to hand over his personal phone as it would set a bad precedent and it was relying on the Favre precedent to result in at worst a fine.
Brady got suspended because of Article 46. Public opinion went against him because people hate dynasties on rival teams.

They hate dynasties by the Patriots.

Steelers, Cowboys, Niners and Packers suffered no such bias or hatred.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You might have had a point...but...

You continue to ignore that Brady/Yee/the Patriots had already figured out what Ted Wells was all about when they decided to stop providing him with voluntary requests for information.

Yee has stated this. They knew that Wells and the league had zero interest in any information that was favorable for Brady. They knew Wells, Pash, Goodell, and Kensil were looking to save face and justify their fake leak numbers.

The investigation was unnecessary. The Patriots and Yee knew this. The Patriots had the actual PSI numbers and not the fake ones; Wells had that information too. The Patriots had the actual science reports exonerating Brady; Wells had that information too.

Wells request was essentially this:

I know the league lied and even refuses to correct their fabricated report, hired me to drum up a case against you by falsely claiming I’m an independent investigator, and are counting on me to continue exaggerating and lying in order to conclude you are guilty. I’m really struggling because all of the physical evidence, science, and eyewitness accounts isn’t giving me what I need. Want to do me a favor? I’d like to get some of the contents of your cell phone. Thanks.

This is where you are mistaken. Brady ultimately DID comply with Wells...partially. He gave up the contents of TWO of the three cell phones that Wells had requested info off of. However, the most important phone, the one he used around the time of the AFCCG in 2014, was destroyed the same week he was going to meet with Wells. So this contradicts your belief that the Brady/Yee team were stonewalling the NFL because they had already figured out he was getting suspended and that nothing they would do would help. And it contradicts @The Brandon Five 's belief that Brady refused to cooperate because he was going to set bad precedent by complying with Wells. There was nothing on either of the two phones that were not destroyed - very likely there was nothing on the destroyed phone either. Destruction of evidence is never a good thing in an investigation, even if it doesn't have culpatory information.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is where you are mistaken. Brady ultimately DID comply with Wells...partially. He gave up the contents of TWO of the three cell phones that Wells had requested info off of. However, the most important phone, the one he used around the time of the AFCCG in 2014, was destroyed the same week he was going to meet with Wells. So this contradicts your belief that the Brady/Yee team were stonewalling the NFL because they had already figured out he was getting suspended and that nothing they would do would help. And it contradicts @The Brandon Five 's belief that Brady refused to cooperate because he was going to set bad precedent by complying with Wells.

It‘s consistent with the idea that they wouldn’t turn over anything that could be manipulated or taken out of context in any way, which is exactly what Goodell and Wells did all along. Look, I get what argument you’re trying to make that there’s a blind spot. Your points are researched, though I don’t believe anything at all in the Wells Report, including claims about how the investigation went and specifics.

This is the problem with investigations and reports that are bad faith, based on outright lies and manipulations and lacking integrity. It’s impossible to know what’s accurate, the motivation behind it, which side is to blame. etc. It’s impossible to know exactly where the line is between justified non-cooperation and hiding guilt.

This is why the doctrine exists that any fruit of the poisonous tree should be disregarded. But it isn’t just a legal technicality; it is rooted in the pragmatic idea that one cannot separate the good fruit (real evidence and facts) from the bad fruit (improperly obtained facts from improper techniques.)

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It‘s consistent with the idea that they wouldn’t turn over anything that could be manipulated or taken out of context in any way, which is exactly what Goodell and Wells did all along. Look, I get what argument you’re trying to make that there’s a blind apot. Your points are researched, though I don’t believe anything at all in the Wells Report, including claims about how the investigation went and specifics.

This is the problem with investigations and reports that are bad faith, based on outright lies and manipulations and lacking integrity. It’s impossible to know what’s accurate, the motivation behind it, which side is to blame. etc. It’s impossible to know exactly where the line is between justified non-cooperation and hiding guilt.

This is why the doctrine exists that any fruit of the poisonous tree should be disregarded. But it isn’t just a legal technicality; it is rooted in the pragmatic idea that one cannot separate the good fruit (real evidence and facts) from the bad fruit (improperly obtained facts from improper techniques.)

good post.

 

[Ring 6]

Translation: I am going competely off my own faulty memory n don't actually have any evidence whatsoever of what i'm saying

No, translation, any real patriot fan would remember Kraft publicly announcing that he felt was is best for 32 teams is more important than what is best for 1 and abdicated his right to appeal.
If you are not aware of that you weren’t a fan in 2016.

 

[sb1]

They hate dynasties by the Patriots.

Steelers, Cowboys, Niners and Packers suffered no such bias or hatred.

Yep.

I think a lot of fans always resented the Patriots. Fans like big names and big stars and dynasties and total dominance. Especially over teams like the "Patsies" who needed to know their place.

The 2001 Pats changed the league forever.

 

[Ring 6]

So I decided to google "Kraft good of 32", in case anyone had forgotten.

New England Patriots will not appeal NFL decision

Robert Kraft has decided not to appeal the discipline handed down by the NFL following the investigation into the use of under-inflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game.

www.nfl.com

Transcript of Robert Kraft's statement

The transcript of Robert Kraft’s statement in which he announced the Patriots will not appeal the NFL’s punishment for Deflategate: “You know, it’s been an emotionally charged couple of weeks, as all of you know. I’ve been considering what my options are. Throughout this whole process there’s...

www.nbcsports.com

"at no time should the agenda of one team outweigh the collective good of the full 32."​

So Bob, were Jerry Jones, Goodell, Irsay, and everyone else involved in the witch hunt also putting the good of the 32 ahead of their personal interests?

And announce in the same pc that he would accept the penalties and not appeal

 

[The Brandon Five]

This is where you are mistaken. Brady ultimately DID comply with Wells...partially. He gave up the contents of TWO of the three cell phones that Wells had requested info off of. However, the most important phone, the one he used around the time of the AFCCG in 2014, was destroyed the same week he was going to meet with Wells. So this contradicts your belief that the Brady/Yee team were stonewalling the NFL because they had already figured out he was getting suspended and that nothing they would do would help. And it contradicts @The Brandon Five 's belief that Brady refused to cooperate because he was going to set bad precedent by complying with Wells. There was nothing on either of the two phones that were not destroyed - very likely there was nothing on the destroyed phone either. Destruction of evidence is never a good thing in an investigation, even if it doesn't have culpatory information.

What is this? 1970? All text messages can be obtained from the providers. Why would they need the phones?

You are asking for him to endure a complete invasion of his privacy in a case where the evidence showed that nothing had actually happened. It's like setting a perjury trap in a murder case where there was no actual murder.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

What is this? 1970? All text messages can be obtained from the providers. Why would they need the phones?

You are asking for him to endure a complete invasion of his privacy in a case where the evidence showed that nothing had actually happened. It's like setting a perjury trap in a murder case where there was no actual murder.

No, you are wrong. AT&T said that they could not retrieve Brady's text messages on the destroyed phone since messages on their servers get deleted after 3 days. Please do your research. And there is no "complete invasion of privacy." Wells told Brady's agent to produce only those text messages that were relevant to the investigation. In other words, Brady and Yee get to decide which messages Wells gets - this is very standard in litigation where one party produces relevant documents in response to a discovery request.

 

[sb1]

No, you are wrong. AT&T said that they could not retrieve Brady's text messages on the destroyed phone. Please do your research. And there is no "complete invasion of privacy." Wells told Brady's agent to produce only those text messages that were relevant to the investigation. In other words, Brady and Yee get to decide which messages Wells gets. Brady still refused.

And rightfully so.

There is no chance that Wells wouldn't pick and choose one text message without any context to highlight and use to frame Brady. That's what it was all about. The investigation had a much of a predetermined outcome as WWE.

And they would have been leaked to the public whether they were relevant or not. Every one of them. Without a doubt. Ask Richie Incognito how his "cooperation" with Wells worked out for him.

 

[sb1]

What is this? 1970? All text messages can be obtained from the providers. Why would they need the phones?

You are asking for him to endure a complete invasion of his privacy in a case where the evidence showed that nothing had actually happened. It's like setting a perjury trap in a murder case where there was no actual murder.

Yup. And it wasn't hard to do.

Look what they did to McNally's texts.

"Deflate and give me that jkt" which had nothing to do with deflating footballs.

Focusing on one word in one single text message throughout the report: "deflator".

"I'm not going to espn yet" which had nothing at all to do with Brady ordering illegal deflation of footballs but being made to look that way.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And rightfully so.

There is no chance that Wells wouldn't pick and choose one text message without any context to highlight and use to frame Brady. That's what it was all about. The investigation had a much of a predetermined outcome as WWE.

And they would have been leaked to the public whether they were relevant or not. Every one of them. Without a doubt. Ask Richie Incognito how his "cooperation" with Wells worked out for him.

I honestly can't speak to the Richie Incognito investigation. I think Incognito turned in his phone over to Wells and not just pick and choose which messages to hand over. Honestly, I would have lept at the chance to give over only relevant text messages and emails (that I choose) to clear my name. If Brady had none, you tell Wells that a forensic search with the search terms he asked for did not produce any relevant documents. Also, this gives Yee the opportunity to provide any context to any of the texts.

 

[sb1]

I honestly can't speak to the Richie Incognito investigation. I think Incognito turned in his phone over to Wells and not just pick and choose which messages to hand over. Honestly, I would have lept at the chance to give over only relevant text messages and emails (that I choose) to clear my name. If Brady had none, you tell Wells that a forensic search with the search terms he asked for did not produce any relevant documents.

I think it's highly doubtful that Brady's team would be the ones to decide what the definition of "relevant" is for this investigation. There is no doubt Wells wanted to search all the text messages and pick and choose which ones to highlight out of context to make Brady look guilty of cheating like the league wanted.