Extend Newton

[jah]

I think if Newton is retained he would be unlikely to be a backup.

That depends whether we decide to draft a QB of significance. I wouldn't be against it, of course. However, I also think the team has a faster path back to relevance if they address the true root of the offensive problems: the utter lack of talent at WR and TE. The way I see it, we probably need a new starting QB, but we definitely need new guys for the QB to throw to. No QB will succeed with this level of talent around him. Therefore, we can't even truly rule out Cam as a future starter because what we're seeing absolutely cannot be his full potential on this team.

 

[RIpats88]

That depends whether we decide to draft a QB of significance. I wouldn't be against it, of course. However, I also think the team has a faster path back to relevance if they address the true root of the offensive problems: the utter lack of talent at WR and TE. The way I see it, we probably need a new starting QB, but we definitely need new guys for the QB to throw to. No QB will succeed with this level of talent around him. Therefore, we can't even truly rule out Cam as a future starter because what we're seeing absolutely cannot be his full potential on this team.

Bingo. we have no one teams have to scheme for. QB is important but Bill needs to revamp the offense as a whole. only Myers has potential on the receiver front to be a part of the future

 

[1960Pats]

Bingo. we have no one teams have to scheme for. QB is important but Bill needs to revamp the offense as a whole. only Myers has potential on the receiver front to be a part of the future

 

[farn]

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/stop-the-charade-cam-newton-will-be-the-patriots-qb-in-2021

Decent points, dunno if I buy it, but...

 

[Thelonious]

It's a REBUILD. He's somebody else's castoff. He plays like somebody else's castoff. He manages about a half a TD pass per game.

This forum is looking more and more like the old Gang Green forum every day: foolish boosterboy delusions wall to wall.

Dump him and move on, or just go the whole way and bring in Rex as HC. He can help Cam to work on his buttfumble skills.

 

[Jim Beankie]

After looking at who'll be available next year (and with the unknown Covid situation), I definitely buy it for the continuity and his leadership, but it all depends on what kind of a discount he's willing to give the Pats. Based on comments he's made earlier in the year, it sounds like he might be in TB12 mode - at this point he just wants to win after making 9 figures, and this is the best place to do it. As it's probably been pointed out numerous times, he's won a Heisman, an NCAA championship, an MVP, and made the Super Bowl, so that win is the only thing that's missing. Given that Belichick said earlier that, "nobody works harder than Cam does," I think he's extremely motivated after being slighted this offseason (shades of a crying long haired Brady talking about his draft experience).

Obviously, it's also contingent on his ability to not turn the ball over / consistency. Imho, he can throw the ball pretty well at times (although his quoted "medicine ball" miss to Meyers wide open in the end zone was... painful). That and staying healthy.

 

[farn]

It's a REBUILD. He's somebody else's castoff. He plays like somebody else's castoff. He manages about a half a TD pass per game.

This forum is looking more and more like the old Gang Green forum every day: foolish boosterboy delusions wall to wall.

Dump him and move on, or just go the whole way and bring in Rex as HC. He can help Cam to work on his buttfumble skills.

He can handle the load while parts are getting put into place. That way, the QB of the future has more to work with. That could be a way to look at it. I agree that it's rebuild time - but I am ok if the rebuild includes a transition QB.

 

[luuked]

After looking at who'll be available next year (and with the unknown Covid situation), I definitely buy it for the continuity and his leadership, but it all depends on what kind of a discount he's willing to give the Pats. Based on comments he's made earlier in the year, it sounds like he might be in TB12 mode - at this point he just wants to win after making 9 figures, and this is the best place to do it. As it's probably been pointed out numerous times, he's won a Heisman, an NCAA championship, an MVP, and made the Super Bowl, so that win is the only thing that's missing. Given that Belichick said earlier that, "nobody works harder than Cam does," I think he's extremely motivated after being slighted this offseason (shades of a crying long haired Brady talking about his draft experience).

I agree. He is a perfect culture fit, has easily won over the locker room after Brady jumped ship and the trajectory of the last three games has been very promising. I'd be ecstatic to have him around as transition QB with whom we can still easily compete, if the two sides can find some middle ground on a 2-3 year deal.

The search for a long term answer will continue in the background anyway. It feels liberating not to be held back by a pure pocket passer anymore but finally arrive in the modern NFL on offense.

 

[sb1]

I agree. He is a perfect culture fit, has easily won over the locker room after Brady jumped ship and the trajectory of the last three games has been very promising. I'd be ecstatic to have him around as transition QB with whom we can still easily compete, if the two sides can find some middle ground on a 2-3 year deal.

The search for a long term answer will continue in the background anyway. It feels liberating not to be held back by a pure pocket passer anymore but finally arrive in the modern NFL on offense.

It's also clear to me they do not think Stidham projects to anything more than a backup, otherwise the move would have been made already. That's not a knock on Stid, he is after all a 4th round draft pick and most QB's picked there project to be exactly that. There's almost no upside to dumping Cam now.

If they keep Cam the FA QB class in 2022 is much better than 2021 so waiting for that could be an option. Or they could look in the draft in April, though I think there are other pressing needs too. And no we were not "tanking" like a loser franchise, that was never going to happen. So happy that noise is over.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I don’t see Cam being here in 2021 or if he is, it would be only because Bill couldn’t find a replacement via the draft, free agency or trade and he settles with Cam.

But I don’t think that Cam is their 1st choice now.

i think the effort and energy Bill and Josh had to put in Newton just so he can avoid to be a total liability on the field is enormous. I think they had to simplified the offense at a maximum for him not to screw it up.

 

[Nunchucks]

Patriots need somebody who can run the offense. Cam runs part of it, but he is not throwing the ball well enough, he misses too many reads and is too slow to make decisions, never mind the inaccurate throws.

I like Cam the person and leader, but the QB has too many flaws in his game. Let's see how the year goes. But right now, I am a hard no faulking way to Cam in 2021.

 

[luuked]

It's also clear to me they do not think Stidham projects to anything more than a backup, otherwise the move would have been made already. That's not a knock on Stid, he is after all a 4th round draft pick and most QB's picked there project to be exactly that. There's almost no upside to dumping Cam now.

Stid will have his final shot next year when there is a full offseason and whatnot but the writing seems to be on the wall. He'd need to make a pretty huge jump. I am just going with the odds and think thats unlikely.

If they keep Cam the FA QB class in 2022 is much better than 2021 so waiting for that could be an option. Or they could look in the draft in April, though I think there are other pressing needs too. And no we were not "tanking" like a loser franchise, that was never going to happen. So happy that noise is over.

Unless Newton ends up asking for a boatload of money there really is not much downside in keeping him. As mentioned before he has excellent leadership skills and is more than competent to run this offense. Even if we'd pick a QB in the first round odds are he would sit out most if not all of the season while BB, McD and Fisch are working on him.

There is still a lot of football to be played and we will see once the season is over where the trendline ends up pointing in the end but right now I am back to where I was after the Seattle/Raiders game which is excited to keep him around while the search continues.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

As mentioned before he has excellent leadership skills and is more than competent to run this offense

He has leadership skill but I don't think he runs much of the Offense. I think they dumb down the offense a lot for him. They basically design this offense to lesser the impact of the QB. I honestly think he prevents this offense from being better.

We have probably the best OL and the best running game in the league this year, even with the lack of talent at the receiving position, any decent QB would be much more productive.

 

[sb1]

He has leadership skill but I don't think he runs much of the Offense. I think they dumb down the offense a lot for him. I honestly think he prevents this offense from being better.

We have probably the best OL and the best running game this year, even with the lack of talent at the receiving position, any decent QB would be much more productive.

There are no "decent" QB's to be had right now other than Cam.

 

[Nunchucks]

There are no "decent" QB's to be had right now other than Cam.

Right now.

 

[luuked]

Patriots need somebody who can run the offense. Cam runs part of it, but he is not throwing the ball well enough, he misses too many reads and is too slow to make decisions, never mind the inaccurate throws.

What reads is he missing ? Where is he not throwing the ball accurate enough ? When is he too slow ? I am not trying to be an ******* here but if all those things are so obvious then it should be easy to point to a couple of plays in the last couple games.

But to me the Buffalo game seemed to be the turning point for him. He still struggled against the Bills and our ultra conservative gameplan (i.e. kicking FG on third down before half) was also not favorable. But he looked a lot more decisive and since then there has been no blown timeouts, delay of game penalties and barely any free rushers (if it wasn't by design e.g. on a screen). Similarly, his footwork looks like it has rebounded since that awful stretch against the Broncos and 49ers.

In fact, I can only remember one pass that looked ugly against Baltimore and that was the third down to a wide open Jakobi in the endzone. I haven't rewatched it but according to Lazar the ball was actually tipped:



Apart from that he looked decisive, had a quick release, set his protections/changed plays quicker and his throws were accurate despite the elements.

What it boils down to is I feel much better about him and his trendline now than I did a 3 weeks ago. And most of this is only because the team finally is back in a practice rhythm.

So reading about all those issues that have not really shown up in meaningful ways since the Broncos/49ers game is confusing.

 

[Nunchucks]

What reads is he missing ? Where is he not throwing the ball accurate enough ? When is he too slow ? I am not trying to be an ******* here but if all those things are so obvious then it should be easy to point to a couple of plays in the last couple games.

But to me the Buffalo game seemed to be the turning point for him. He still struggled against the Bills and our ultra conservative gameplan (i.e. kicking FG on third down before half) was also not favorable. But he looked a lot more decisive and since then there has been no blown timeouts, delay of game penalties and barely any free rushers (if it wasn't by design e.g. on a screen). Similarly, his footwork looks like it has rebounded since that awful stretch against the Broncos and 49ers.

In fact, I can only remember one pass that looked ugly against Baltimore and that was the third down to a wide open Jakobi in the endzone. I haven't rewatched it but according to Lazar the ball was actually tipped:



Apart from that he looked decisive, had a quick release, set his protections/changed plays quicker and his throws were accurate despite the elements.

What it boils down to is I feel much better about him and his trendline now than I did a 3 weeks ago. And most of this is only because the team finally is back in a practice rhythm.

So reading about all those issues that have not really shown up in meaningful ways since the Broncos/49ers game is confusing.

I've seen several breakdowns of his play where wide open players are being ignored. You can find that analysis. I am not going to go into a breakdown from my phone.Like I said, not good enough at this point, we'll see how it ends up.

That and terrible pocket awareness and movement.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

What reads is he missing ? Where is he not throwing the ball accurate enough ? When is he too slow ? I am not trying to be an ******* here but if all those things are so obvious then it should be easy to point to a couple of plays in the last couple games.

My point and I think Nunchucks point is that the last two games, he doesn't need to read much. He just need to look if Meyers is open or not. if he his throw him the ball if not go to the flat. He was slow in scanning the field and was missing a lot of throws during the LV, DEN and 49ers games.

Sunday the target were has follow:

WR/TE:

Meyers 7
Izzo 1

RB/FB:
Burky 5
Johnson 2
White 2

Basically Meyers or bust.

The best passing play of the night wasn't even Cam throwing.

 

[luuked]

I've seen several breakdowns of his play where wide open players are being ignored. You can find that analysis.

Where ?

Because it ain't Lazar who has called the last two games of Newton "stellar" and "great". Also he found only one throw in total where he missed any read for no reason. It also was not Chatham. I looked through his stuff against the Jets. Also didn't see it in Howe's Athletic summaries.

So please tell me where to find that breakdown because it certainly wasn't any of the usual beat guys.

 

[Boomer B]

I agree. He is a perfect culture fit, has easily won over the locker room after Brady jumped ship and the trajectory of the last three games has been very promising. I'd be ecstatic to have him around as transition QB with whom we can still easily compete, if the two sides can find some middle ground on a 2-3 year deal.

The search for a long term answer will continue in the background anyway. It feels liberating not to be held back by a pure pocket passer anymore but finally arrive in the modern NFL on offense.

You feel liberated not to be held back by a pure pocket passer?

Kinda weird. I used to feel liberated when that pure pocket passer had us top 5 every year points scored and not sitting down at 27 where we are now.