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Change draft strategy?


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When Bill had a top 10 choice, he did fine - Seymour and Mayo. However, both were on defense, where Bill seems to be more effective. The question is whether he can make a good to great selection on offense if the Patriots come up with a top ten pick.

Yes. I trust the defensive opinions or OLine (Scar) opinions. Have zero trust that McDaniels won't blow another pick with crappy draft opinions at WR or RB or TE. Would rather we spend a pick on a more sure thing and ignore whatever McDaniels is saying

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When Bill had a top 10 choice, he did fine - Seymour and Mayo. However, both were on defense, where Bill seems to be more effective. The question is whether he can make a good to great selection on offense if the Patriots come up with a top ten pick.
It is not that bb does that bad at drafting, it is that he goes off script thinking he is smarter than everybody else.

case in point one of many examples - Jordan Richards. At best a fifth rounder. We took him in the second round,

sometimes he scores going off script. Vollmer for example! But the vast majority have been misses.

the frustration is that if bb stayed on script, he could have drafted contributors instead of losers.

that’s why people talk up metcalf and bash Harry!
 
It is not that bb does that bad at drafting, it is that he goes off script thinking he is smarter than everybody else.

case in point one of many examples - Jordan Richards. At best a fifth rounder. We took him in the second round,

sometimes he scores going off script. Vollmer for example! But the vast majority have been misses.

the frustration is that if bb stayed on script, he could have drafted contributors instead of losers.

that’s why people talk up metcalf and bash Harry!

It's the value groupings. He goes by what his staff says are in the "same" tier of talent. He drafts the last guy in the group before the group talent drops. But obviously crappy guys are being put in too-high tiers. I don't know if that's on him or whoever is writing the reports. He just uses the information he has ?

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It's the value groupings. He goes by what his staff says are in the "same" tier of talent. He drafts the last guy in the group before the group talent drops. But obviously crappy guys are being put in too-high tiers. I don't know if that's on him or whoever is writing the reports. He just uses the information he has ?

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i don’t believe for one minute bb does not have his fingers all in the scouting and drafting pie. I think he reviews film on every single guy in the draft and makes every single decision.

I only saw two practices this year and looking at the coach working with Duggar and the safeties, I saw him several times look nauseated when watching Duggar go through reps. And once I saw Caserio shrug his shoulders when the coach looked over at him.

I could be way off base, and only time will tell, but at the end of the day, bb is the man. And right now, we have doubts.
 
i don’t believe for one minute bb does not have his fingers all in the scouting and drafting pie. I think he reviews film on every single guy in the draft and makes every single decision.

I only saw two practices this year and looking at the coach working with Duggar and the safeties, I saw him several times look nauseated when watching Duggar go through reps. And once I saw Caserio shrug his shoulders when the coach looked over at him.

I could be way off base, and only time will tell, but at the end of the day, bb is the man. And right now, we have doubts.

I believe he works harder than any other coach/GM. Agree. But he's one man. So let's think this through. He focuses on 1 player for half the practice. How about the other 52 guys? How about the practice squad guys. Meanwhile when is he scouting the 100 college games that happened today. Oh by the way how about reviewing game film of the Jets coming up. Think about it. It's impossible. Books written already say Belichick realized way back in Cleveland it was impossible.

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I believe he works harder than any other coach/GM. Agree. But he's one man. So let's think this through. He focuses on 1 player for half the practice. How about the other 52 guys? How about the practice squad guys. Meanwhile when is he scouting the 100 college games that happened today. Oh by the way how about reviewing game film of the Jets coming up. Think about it. It's impossible. Books written already say Belichick realized way back in Cleveland it was impossible.

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1.) I think bb only works on the draft after the regular season.

2.) I do not know who “he” is, but I saw a position coach look over at caserio and caserio shrug! Bb was at the other end of the field when this happened.

3.) in all the years I have been going to patriot practices, bb is very much a teacher and punisher. I only see him step in to give teaching/instructional moments or if someone screws up to tell them or the entire unit to run a lap. The position coaches are doing everything else until scrimmage starts and then bb also calls out down and distance and sometimes time on the clock.
 
1.) I think bb only works on the draft after the regular season.

2.) I do not know who “he” is, but I saw a position coach look over at caserio and caserio shrug! Bb was at the other end of the field when this happened.

3.) in all the years I have been going to patriot practices, bb is very much a teacher and punisher. I only see him step in to give teaching/instructional moments or if someone screws up to tell them or the entire unit to run a lap. The position coaches are doing everything else until scrimmage starts and then bb also calls out down and distance and sometimes time on the clock.

Yes. I agree. I've also watched training camp before. I'm just saying it's physically impossible for the hardest working HC to see literally everything with his own eyes, everything 53 players do, everything the opponent 4-game tape, 500 college players playing a dozen college games a year, and 1500 league NFL players. Just not possible. So he has to rely on opinions and recommendations from his staff. It's just a fact.

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We need to rebuild through draft next couple years as we lack talent almost everywhere with a lot of aging vets. We will also have much better draft capital than previous years if we keep losing at this rate.

Howver, given our draft record over the last few years, I have zero confidence in this team hitting on any skill positions which are clearly the greatest need.

So why not change approach? We are clearly very good at drafting OL and D, esprcially DL, LB and CB. So why not just draft those and focus free agency mostly on skill positions?

We are also good at catching/3rd down RBs but not a need.

The oldest guy is Nick Folk at 38. They have 9 guys who are 30+ including Edelman who is on the IR. 13 if you include Hightower, Chung, Bolden, and Cannon. 13 out of the 88 players with whom they have contracts. That's 14% of the roster.

The Patriots draft record in the last 3 years has been pretty good.. Contrary to most Negative Nancies on this board. Michel, Harris, Onwenu, Wynn, Harry, Herron, Cowart, Stidham, Bailey, Winovich, Williams, Maluia, Froholdt, Dugger. There are guys they've traded or were signed off the practice squad by other teams in Crossen, Dawson and Webster. Then there is Berrios who is actually playing well for the Jetes. The Jury is still out on Uche, Jennings, Rohrwasser, Asiasi, Keene, and Cajuste but they are rooks and it's to be expected. But, seriously 20 of 29 guys from the last 3 drafts with 5 guys who haven't seen enough playing time to make a judgement.

You don't seem to realize that the approach you mention is almost exactly what BB does. It's rare for him to use a high round pick (Top 3 rounds. 2 in the past 11 years) on a WR. In fact, he drafts WRs at about half the rate other teams do. BB has used 5 Top 3 picks on RBs since 2009. Ridley, Vereen, Michel, Harris, and White. I think most people would say that having those guys produce at the journeyman level or better is a pretty good success rate.

Since 2009, BB has used 7 picks out of 46 picks (15.22%) that the team has had in the top 3 rounds on "skill positions" (RB&WR) . By comparison, the Steelers have had 38 picks in the top 3 rounds in the same time frame and used 11 picks (28.95%) on "skill positions".

Now, you made a claim about the team supposedly "lacking talent everywhere" but that's just not supported by facts. This O-line has proven to be very deep despite all the injuries and Cannon sitting out. The DB depth is excellent. Where they are thin is on the D-line and at LB. Unfortunately, Bentley has regressed. Mainly because he's being asked to be something he's not. A 3 down ILB who can play sideline to sideline. Hightower opting out and the losses of Van Noy and Collins hurt. The unexpected loss of Beau Allen and the injury to Butler hasn't helped Guy at all. Cowart being gone because of Covid didn't help matters.

WR is the other glaring position. But they aren't helped at all by the horrendous QB play we've had the last 4 weeks. Cam cost us each of the last 2 games with his pathetic play. There is talent there, but it's no use if the QB can't get them the ball properly. We could have Jerry RIce and Michael Irving for our top 2 WRs and they'd look like crap too because of how Cam has played. Until the QB position is improved, the WRs are going to look worse than they actually are.
 
The oldest guy is Nick Folk at 38. They have 9 guys who are 30+ including Edelman who is on the IR. 13 if you include Hightower, Chung, Bolden, and Cannon. 13 out of the 88 players with whom they have contracts. That's 14% of the roster.

The Patriots draft record in the last 3 years has been pretty good.. Contrary to most Negative Nancies on this board. Michel, Harris, Onwenu, Wynn, Harry, Herron, Cowart, Stidham, Bailey, Winovich, Williams, Maluia, Froholdt, Dugger. There are guys they've traded or were signed off the practice squad by other teams in Crossen, Dawson and Webster. Then there is Berrios who is actually playing well for the Jetes. The Jury is still out on Uche, Jennings, Rohrwasser, Asiasi, Keene, and Cajuste but they are rooks and it's to be expected. But, seriously 20 of 29 guys from the last 3 drafts with 5 guys who haven't seen enough playing time to make a judgement.

You don't seem to realize that the approach you mention is almost exactly what BB does. It's rare for him to use a high round pick (Top 3 rounds. 2 in the past 11 years) on a WR. In fact, he drafts WRs at about half the rate other teams do. BB has used 5 Top 3 picks on RBs since 2009. Ridley, Vereen, Michel, Harris, and White. I think most people would say that having those guys produce at the journeyman level or better is a pretty good success rate.

Since 2009, BB has used 7 picks out of 46 picks (15.22%) that the team has had in the top 3 rounds on "skill positions" (RB&WR) . By comparison, the Steelers have had 38 picks in the top 3 rounds in the same time frame and used 11 picks (28.95%) on "skill positions".

Now, you made a claim about the team supposedly "lacking talent everywhere" but that's just not supported by facts. This O-line has proven to be very deep despite all the injuries and Cannon sitting out. The DB depth is excellent. Where they are thin is on the D-line and at LB. Unfortunately, Bentley has regressed. Mainly because he's being asked to be something he's not. A 3 down ILB who can play sideline to sideline. Hightower opting out and the losses of Van Noy and Collins hurt. The unexpected loss of Beau Allen and the injury to Butler hasn't helped Guy at all. Cowart being gone because of Covid didn't help matters.

WR is the other glaring position. But they aren't helped at all by the horrendous QB play we've had the last 4 weeks. Cam cost us each of the last 2 games with his pathetic play. There is talent there, but it's no use if the QB can't get them the ball properly. We could have Jerry RIce and Michael Irving for our top 2 WRs and they'd look like crap too because of how Cam has played. Until the QB position is improved, the WRs are going to look worse than they actually are.
We’ve drafted well the last 3 years? Really?

The players you’ve listed:

Michel - waste of a first round pick. He’s nothing special and has likely lost his spot to Harris

Harris - looks like a good pick

Onwenu - looks like he could be best pick of the bunch.

Wynn - average to decent tackle

Harry - horrible 1st round pick

Herron - to early to tell but nothing special so far

Cowart - nothing special

Stidham - looking like a bust

Bailey - good punter

Winovich - in the doghouse

Williams - 2nd round pick who hasn’t shown much

Maluia - done nothing

Froholdt - done nothing

Dugger - to early to tell

That’s drafting well? That’s horrible! We got a decent RB (RB’s are a dime a dozen in the NFL), an ok to decent tackle, and a guard who’s looking like he may turn out well. The punter may be the best pick of the bunch!
 
I don’t want to become a hindsight GM with regards to Harry but the last two drafts were stacked at WR and it’s almost negligence that we didn’t double dip or pick one each year.
 
On a side note or possibly trying to look at things in a different evil angle, i feel bill belichick the GM on draft day acts as a troll master, trolling Pat's fans with the choices... 2nd round another busted DB...

And sipping orange juice while we are like..What happened...
 
Yes. I agree. I've also watched training camp before. I'm just saying it's physically impossible for the hardest working HC to see literally everything with his own eyes, everything 53 players do, everything the opponent 4-game tape, 500 college players playing a dozen college games a year, and 1500 league NFL players. Just not possible. So he has to rely on opinions and recommendations from his staff. It's just a fact.

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I believe the staff puts together video highlight reels of all 500 players in the draft of about 60 minutes each. In addition, he is given summary information on each prospect’s testing numbers and medical data.

bb goes through as many of them as he can, making notes on each player. And that is how he drafts.
 
I believe the staff puts together video highlight reels of all 500 players in the draft of about 60 minutes each. In addition, he is given summary information on each prospect’s testing numbers and medical data.

bb goes through as many of them as he can, making notes on each player. And that is how he drafts.
He needs to change how he’s been drafting the whole process
 
I am not sure if it is the scouting or the person that make the decision to pick a player that is the problem. Titans, Falcons and Tampa all have people from the Patriots scouting department and done well picking players.
 
I am not sure if it is the scouting or the person that make the decision to pick a player that is the problem. Titans, Falcons and Tampa all have people from the Patriots scouting department and done well picking players.

And that is the real question, why has bb changed what he did for 18 years to go off script for the last years?

bb is the master of breaking down film. The greatest ever by far. Nobody comes even close to how he sees players on film and live! So what changed?

Does whatever happened between him, Brady, Kraft and jimmy g have anything to do with how bb has been acting on draft day and with personnel in general?
 
I believe the staff puts together video highlight reels of all 500 players in the draft of about 60 minutes each. In addition, he is given summary information on each prospect’s testing numbers and medical data.

bb goes through as many of them as he can, making notes on each player. And that is how he drafts.

Right. So he goes off the opinions written in the reports of his staff. And a highlight reel which can make any player look good. He physically can't see every player they draft even being the hardest working HC in the league

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We’ve drafted well the last 3 years? Really?

The players you’ve listed:

Michel - waste of a first round pick. He’s nothing special and has likely lost his spot to Harris

Harris - looks like a good pick

Onwenu - looks like he could be best pick of the bunch.

Wynn - average to decent tackle

Harry - horrible 1st round pick

Herron - to early to tell but nothing special so far

Cowart - nothing special

Stidham - looking like a bust

Bailey - good punter

Winovich - in the doghouse

Williams - 2nd round pick who hasn’t shown much

Maluia - done nothing

Froholdt - done nothing

Dugger - to early to tell

That’s drafting well? That’s horrible! We got a decent RB (RB’s are a dime a dozen in the NFL), an ok to decent tackle, and a guard who’s looking like he may turn out well. The punter may be the best pick of the bunch!
He's not worth talking to.
 
Right. So he goes off the opinions written in the reports of his staff. And a highlight reel which can make any player look good. He physically can't see every player they draft even being the hardest working HC in the league

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what do you think coaches and staff are doing from January til late April?

bb has video guys working on player profiles from week one of the college season until the last game is played!

he then has four months to watch tape. This has been bb’s routine for decades!
 
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