N'Keal Harry (lack of) Progress Report

[Brewskies]

Harry sure looked like he was looking to get paid while on IR, yesterday. I didn't see a head to head hit; I saw a head to shoulder hit, and Harry said he was injured.

 

[Kontradiction]

Drafted this slug over Metcalf and AJ Brown....

FIRE our Wide Receiver Scouts

They need to get rid of Caserio. The WR position isn’t the only position they’ve sucked a fat one on since Reese departed.

 

[mgteich]

Why are you blaming JoJuan? BB was the one that couldn't help himself drafting a DB when they didn't need it. And he did it again with Dugger. Blame should never go to the player, but the person that selected him.

Oh, and you forgot to add McClaurin to the list.

Some folks thought there was a danger of losing the McCourty's, Chung and Harmon in the near future. Those folks draft Williams and Dugger.
I think it very shortsighted to think that we didn't need Dugger. We used 2 picks on TE's and 2 on LB's. The fact that they aren't producing is the issue.

 

[TomPatriot]

Drafted this slug over Metcalf and AJ Brown....

FIRE our Wide Receiver Scouts

Not sure it’s the scouts.

 

[203Pat]

I know it seems crazy to think about for a first round pick but does anyone think there is a chance he isn't on this team opening day next year?

 

[TomPatriot]

They need to get rid of Caserio. The WR position isn’t the only position they’ve sucked a fat one on since Reese departed.

I’m not a huge fan. If there are personnel accomplishments, it’s mostly in the UDFA area.

 

[letsgopats]

Some folks thought there was a danger of losing the McCourty's, Chung and Harmon in the near future. Those folks draft Williams and Dugger.
I think it very shortsighted to think that we didn't need Dugger. We used 2 picks on TE's and 2 on LB's. The fact that they aren't producing is the issue.

I believe that Bill will redshirt them this year, with covid happening, they are way behind where rookies would be normally. They are not first rounder that you could plug and play right away regardless.

 

[Kontradiction]

I’m not a huge fan. If there are personnel accomplishments, it’s mostly in the UDFA area.

He sucks. The core of the dynasty was drafted when he wasn’t the primary voice in the room with Bill. If Houston wants him, I will literally pay them to take him.

 

[PittPatriot]

Except when you take into consideration that Pittsburgh spends significantly more draft capital than the Patriots do. That's been proven ad nauseum on this board. 6 Picks in the Top 3 rounds since 2012.

Since 2012, here are the WRs picks that Pittsburgh has made:
2012 - Toney Clemons (7th)
2013 - Markus Wheaton (3rd), Justin Brown (6th)
2014 - Martavis Bryant (4th)
2015 - Sammie Coates (3rd)
2016 - DeMarcus Ayers (6th)
2017 - JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd)
2018 - James Washington (2nd)
2019 - Diontae Johnson (3rd)
2020 - Chase Claypool (2nd)

So, that's 10 picks. Bryant and Wheaton were flashes in the pan that the Steelers discarded before the end of the 1st contract. Washington is looking to be similar. So they seem to have hit on Schuster and Claypool.

The Pats, by comparison:
2012 - Jeremy Ebert (7th)
2013 - Dobson (2nd), Boyce (4th)
2014 - Jeremy Gallon (7th)
2015 - None
2016 - Mitchell (4th) ,Lucien (7th)
2017 - None
2018 - Berrios (6th)
2019 - Harry (1st)
2020 - None

Patriots have spent 2 picks on WR in the top 3 rounds since 2012.

So is it really a wonder that Pittsburgh seems to "hit" more? They spent 3 times as many picks in the upper rounds.

Pittsburgh hits regularly in their WR picks.
We are not in their league when it comes to drafting LB and WR.
Wheaton and Bryant (who you cited as both flashes in the pan) individually have had better careers than Dobson, Boyce, Ebert, Gallon, Lucien, and Harry COMBINED.
One of the reasons some of their receivers don’t finish out their contract or go on to a 2nd contract is because they seem to have a draft pipeline. They simply trade out a 4th year player making peanuts for a rookie making peanuts but under contract for another 4 years.

 

[letsgopats]

I know it seems crazy to think about for a first round pick but does anyone think there is a chance he isn't on this team opening day next year?

There isn't no FA out there that can help us right now and there isn't any big FA hitting the market next year besides Allen Robison, which I believe he'll get a deal done with Chicago but who knows. There is guys pass their prime like Green and Hilton. There is some decent guys like Willie Snead, Kenny Still and Marvin Jones thou.

As far a Harry goes, I believe he'd still be around, no one knows how the cap will be affected next year. Harry can at least be a WR3 for this team and he still can block and help in the run game.

 

[Kontradiction]

There isn't no FA out there that can help us right now and there isn't any big FA hitting the market next year besides Allen Robison, which I believe he'll get a deal done with Chicago but who knows. There is guys pass their prime like Green and Hilton. There is some decent guys like Willie Snead, Kenny Still and Marvin Jones thou.

As far a Harry goes, I believe he'd still be around, no one knows how the cap will be affected next year. Harry can at least be a WR3 for this team and he still can block and help in the run game.

The bold part actually means that there is an FA out there that can help us.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

There isn't no FA out there that can help us right now and there isn't any big FA hitting the market next year besides Allen Robison, which I believe he'll get a deal done with Chicago but who knows. There is guys pass their prime like Green and Hilton. There is some decent guys like Willie Snead, Kenny Still and Marvin Jones thou.

As far a Harry goes, I believe he'd still be around, no one knows how the cap will be affected next year. Harry can at least be a WR3 for this team and he still can block and help in the run game.

There's definitely no one man that can instantly turn this around. The offense needs an overhaul. Defense isn't one guy away either.

 

[mgteich]

Pittsburgh hits regularly in their WR picks.
We are not in their league when it comes to drafting LB and WR.
Wheaton and Bryant (who you cited as both flashes in the pan) individually have had better careers than Dobson, Boyce, Ebert, Gallon, Lucien, and Harry COMBINED.
One of the reasons some of their receivers don’t finish out their contract or go on to a 2nd contract is because they seem to have a draft pipeline. They simply trade out a 4th year player making peanuts for a rookie making peanuts but under contract for another 4 years.

I agree that PITT drafts better at WR then we do. So? Please document sources that compare drafting OVERALL and who put the patriots below average in drafting.

 

[mgteich]

Defense isn't one guy away either.

I strongly disagree. We had a top defense in 2019. We have a top 10 defense in 2020. And, unless we trade away our assets, we will have a top 10 defense in 2021.

 

[mgteich]

There isn't no FA out there that can help us right now and there isn't any big FA hitting the market next year besides Allen Robison, which I believe he'll get a deal done with Chicago but who knows. There is guys pass their prime like Green and Hilton. There is some decent guys like Willie Snead, Kenny Still and Marvin Jones thou.

As far a Harry goes, I believe he'd still be around, no one knows how the cap will be affected next year. Harry can at least be a WR3 for this team and he still can block and help in the run game.

1) Capwise, we are in much better shape than most teams for 2021.
2) Yes, Harry and Byrd are OK #3 WR's. Trading for a top WR, would instantly improve the Offense. Byrd and Edelman would be #2/#3 and Haqrry would be #4. That is much, much better than the current situation.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Some folks thought there was a danger of losing the McCourty's, Chung and Harmon in the near future. Those folks draft Williams and Dugger.
I think it very shortsighted to think that we didn't need Dugger. We used 2 picks on TE's and 2 on LB's. The fact that they aren't producing is the issue.

In 2019, taking Williams when they already had Gilmore, signed Jason McCourty, Jon Jones and the up and coming J.C. Jackson when Tom Brady had nobody to throw to was inexcusable. In fact, 2019 should've been an offensive heavy draft given the depth at WR, yet BB only takes Harry and nobody else was a massive mistake.

Fast forward to 2020. The Pats skill players ranked the worst out of any team since PFF started in 2006 and BB once again takes a damn DB with the first pick and doesn't take one WR in the entire draft. No QB can succeed with the trash BB has surrounded them with.

Again, Dugger has been alright, but he was not the right pick. The D could absorb the loses you suggest above, but the Offense is on life support for a playmaker. BB has had a bad problem in recent years hoarding DB's and it's rearing it's ugly head on Offense. And the irony of the current group at CB is 2 FA signings and two undrafted FA signings.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Not sure it’s the scouts.

When Patriot scouts get overruled by the opinion of an OC who can't scout, it's a problem

.

 

[Wozzy]

Cam blows... what good are weapons if you can't get the ball to them... or worse get them decapitated throwing into double coverage behind the sticks on third down.

The Patriots don't have a QB, we'll never know just how good or bad the weapons are this season.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I strongly disagree. We had a top defense in 2019. We have a top 10 defense in 2020. And, unless we trade away our assets, we will have a top 10 defense in 2021.

What if we ran 45 times a game? Speed the game up and protect our defense. And use our strength on offense.

.

 

[Wozzy]

What if we ran 45 times a game? Speed the game up and protect our defense. And use our strength on offense.

.

You can't run without the threat of the pass.

Teams are going all in to stop the run and keep Cam in the pocket, our weapons are wide open downfield and Cam doesn't make them pay for it.

Once you're down two scores, the run or the threat of the RPO becomes irrelevant.