OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm happy Brady is gone for Brady and New England. Cam is better for the O as constituted currently.

We'll see. One guy has a history of amazing consistency playing at the highest level. The other guy has a history of roller coaster play. I'm glad Cam is playing well in the first three games, but his ability isn't really the question.

Let's see if he can put it together over a full season. I still have doubts about him being the team's long term answer at quarterback, but they've already come out ahead on the signing, based on the amount of money they paid, no matter what happens from here.

 

[TBR]

This is why Tom went to TB. If it was Belichick it would have probably been something like

"Tom made some good passes, and some bad passes. We have a lot to work on. We're on to Chicago."

No it isn't. The loaded offense is why. The notion that Brady left elsewhere because he was so desperately craving post-game soundbites from his coach praising him is absurd. I'm sure Brady would gladly take the Bucs roster with Belichick as head coach. Their discipline/penalties and special teams might cost them a game or two and I think Tom knows this.

 

[upstater1]

I'm in the camp that TFB would still be sub-par for his career were he here this year. Yes this year's OL is playing worlds better and even the 2020 WRs are marginally better but I don't think he'd be having the fun dragging the Patriots WR/TE corpse (sic) along again that he shows me in Tamper. I'm happy watching Cam's performance & enthusiasm so far. Vs Seattle he was great and last week though sub-par as a passer he was a team player who game managed us to a W. Cam gets a Mulligan for coming down with COVID. We have seen too few games as yet to be definitive but that's my quick take subject to revision with more data after more games.

I tend to think the OL makes all the difference.

 

[Angelpats]

Okay well Brady threw a pick six in the SB against the Falcons and was ineffective the whole first half. But we all lionize him for the comeback. The fact is Brady won the game yesterday and he played fantastic

No use rationalizing with people when they start making excuses for why Brady won. I guess they wanted him to crawl under the bleachers and cry his eyes out after the int. Brady won it yesterday. If that was a different qb, Arians would have kept on throwing the back late in the forth.

 

[amfootball]

This is why Tom went to TB. If it was Belichick it would have probably been something like

"Tom made some good passes, and some bad passes. We have a lot to work on. We're on to Chicago."

Arians is a breath of fresh air. I am sure Brady appreciates the nod that Bill rarely gave him. His quote after the game really said it all though "If this was last year we would have gotten our arses kicked by 20 points." LOL

 

[PatsBoy12]

We'll see. One guy has a history of amazing consistency playing at the highest level. The other guy has a history of roller coaster play. I'm glad Cam is playing well in the first three games, but his ability isn't really the question.

Let's see if he can put it together over a full season. I still have doubts about him being the team's long term answer at quarterback, but they've already come out ahead on the signing, based on the amount of money they paid, no matter what happens from here.

Make no mistake, I'm not comparing the two guys. And I, like you, am largely still keeping the jury out on Cam. But there is no denying that he brings an element to the offense Brady cannot, and that changes how defenses approach planning for NE's O. Also, I can tell that the young guys appreciate playing with him more, and that equates, at least somewhat, to the marginal improvements we have seen... that and the fact that Cam is willing to throw them the ball.

Brady's attitude was not going to improve this season, whether or not anyone saw the merit in it. It was bad for the young WR corps and the team. He needed a fresh start. Bill needed a fresh start. I don't care how much they try to downplay it, but they were in an extremely unhappy marriage. So you can't just look at stats and records when making a determination one way or another. Everything has to be considered. I do believe Brady is happier and will thrive. I believe Bill is happier... let's see if he can thrive with his roster.

But overall, I do see what you're saying, Ice. We're not that far apart in some respects.

 

[Deus Irae]

We'll see. One guy has a history of amazing consistency playing at the highest level. The other guy has a history of roller coaster play. I'm glad Cam is playing well in the first three games, but his ability isn't really the question.

Let's see if he can put it together over a full season. I still have doubts about him being the team's long term answer at quarterback, but they've already come out ahead on the signing, based on the amount of money they paid, no matter what happens from here.

Cam Newton has a QB rating of 89.7.

 

[SVN]

This is why Tom went to TB. If it was Belichick it would have probably been something like

"Tom made some good passes, and some bad passes. We have a lot to work on. We're on to Chicago."

I am in the minority to believe that after 20 yrs of winning 6 Sbs and being in 9 , post game adulation or lack of it bothered brady . He is too experienced and old to understand how Bill works. When arians hasnt seen this for yrs, its now and a relevation for him. For pats the expecations were different week in week out. No season , pats played without any pressure to win the SB.

 

[PatsBoy12]

No use rationalizing with people when they start making excuses for why Brady won. I guess they wanted him to crawl under the bleachers and cry his eyes out after the int. Brady won it yesterday. If that was a different qb, Arians would have kept on throwing the back late in the forth.

Exactly, which is why I'm walking away. They're not trying to have actual discourse. They're simply intent on bashing Brady when he's sub par, forgetting this is essentially preseason with a new everything, or diminishing him when he is great. It's mindblowing.

 

[amfootball]

Make no mistake, I'm not comparing the two guys. And I, like you, am largely still keeping the jury out on Cam. But there is no denying that he brings an element to the offense Brady cannot, and that changes how defenses approach planning for NE's O. Also, I can tell that the young guys appreciate playing with him more, and that equates, at least somewhat, to the marginal improvements we have seen... that and the fact that Cam is willing to throw them the ball.

Brady's attitude was not going to improve this season, whether or not anyone saw the merit in it. It was bad for the young WR corps and the team. He needed a fresh start. Bill needed a fresh start. I don't care how much they try to downplay it, but they were in an extremely unhappy marriage. So you can't just look at stats and records when making a determination one way or another. Everything has to be considered. I do believe Brady is happier and will thrive. I believe Bill is happier... let's see if he can thrive with his roster.

But overall, I do see what you're saying, Ice. We're not that far apart in some respects.

Unhappy Brady went 12-4 and threw 24 TDs to 8 picks. I get what you are saying but there is no doubt this team with a healthy Oline would be dominating right now with the GOAT like it was last year for the first 8 games until the injuries and Marshall Newhouse.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Make no mistake, I'm not comparing the two guys. And I, like you, am largely still keeping the jury out on Cam. But there is no denying that he brings an element to the offense Brady cannot, and that changes how defenses approach planning for NE's O. Also, I can tell that the young guys appreciate playing with him more, and that equates, at least somewhat, to the marginal improvements we have seen... that and the fact that Cam is willing to throw them the ball.

Brady's attitude was not going to improve this season, whether or not anyone saw the merit in it. It was bad for the young WR corps and the team. He needed a fresh start. Bill needed a fresh start. I don't care how much they try to downplay it, but they were in an extremely unhappy marriage. So you can't just look at stats and records when making a determination one way or another. Everything has to be considered. I do believe Brady is happier and will thrive. I believe Bill is happier... let's see if he can thrive with his roster.

But overall, I do see what you're saying, Ice. We're not that far apart.

I agree with what you've said, and there's a palpable positive effect that Cam has had on the offense. However, this is (a) the honeymoon stage, (b) expectations were very low, and (c) they've barely even hit a speed bump so far. Sure, the younger guys and the team in general is going to be invigorated any time you bring in a new quarterback, the team starts playing great, and especially with a new style when it's in contrast to the previous style that ended on a sour note.

I agree it was time to move on from Brady. It sucks that he's gone, but in my opinion the real problem was a series of incredibly ****ty drafts that coincided with the time he needed a great supporting the most. When teams are winning, problems don't matter much; when teams are losing, problems tend to become overblown. Had the Patriots theoretically drafted Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, I'm sure Tom would still be in New England.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree it was time to move on from Brady.

It wasn't. Belichick screwed up.

 

[Tony2046]

Throwing deep doesn't mean his arm isn't weaker than it used to be. His continued pick sixes on the same type of throw shouldn't be ignored. He can lob it up deep still, but the true arm strength is in those throws that are now getting taken back because DBs are jumping on them because he doesn't have the touch or strength to consistently drive the ball like he used to on that type of throw

For a great example of when he still had it look at the pass to Amendola in OT of the SB vs the Falcons. Put enough on it so only Amendola had a chance to catch it.

I think it was more like the throw to Mitchell and Hogan during SB 51. Imo, those throws have more to do with timing than zip although they need some zip but I think Brady simply threw it too late. But I haven't watched the all 22 yet. Anyway I think it's something that we'll see improve as he builds continuity with his receivers.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Pick sixes aside, he's been dropping dimes this year. Hitting WR in stride on deep passes and fitting the ball into tight windows, he's still got it. There's still growing pains on a completely new system with guys he's only played 4 games with, but I dont think it's unrealistic to say he'll have 20 touchdowns by the halfway point and 35 by seasons end. Pretty damn good for a 43 year old.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It wasn't. Belichick screwed up.

I should clarify that I meant in the 2020 free agency period, it was time to move on because the damage was done at that time. Tom no longer wanted to be in New England, and the two sides agreeing to a contract for legacy purposes would have been a bad idea. Kraft stepping in and forcing a marriage - just for the sake of Tom Brady retiring a Patriot - would not have ended well, provided Belichick remained.

Overall, yes, the Patriots absolutely screwed up. They should have extended him in 2018 and/or 2019. They failed in many ways to help him by surrounding him with better players. But again, a lot of that is the zero sum game created by their ****ty drafts; I don't begrudge the team for this, as they are the best when it comes to financial roster allocation...they were just working with very little, and no matter how good you are at scouting, there's a lot of randomness with drafts.

It seems like Belichick never truly bought into Brady's training and fitness claims, which impacted the way they skeptically looked at Brady's NFL career length, in addition to the disrespect card for Brady.

Overall, the risk:reward doesn't make a lot of sense. You risk keeping Brady for an extra year and possibly have to eat a big cap hit at some point. It's not like it was some guy asking for a $200M contract for the next six years. The economics also don't make sense. The cost of Brady was roughly equal to the cost of Thuney and McCourty...tell me which you'd take...Brady or Thuney/McCourty if you're an NFL general manager.

The idea that Brady is a replaceable cog in the wheel seems to be the simplified point of contention between fans. And I think the Patriots decision to let him go, and replace him with Newton or whoever they try to replace him with, will reveal itself as somewhere between arrogant and naive by the end of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Teaching moment

 

[Deus Irae]

Imagine being famous Jameis and hearing what's come out of the mouths of Arians and Bowles in the aftermath of yesterday's game...

 

[Jlaff]

He not only couldn’t throw a spiral but he also throws weak punches at old men with canes.

What's the story there?

 

[amfootball]

Imagine being famous Jameis and hearing what's come out of the mouths of Arians and Bowles in the aftermath of yesterday's game...

Ouch. I think Bowles was referencing the defense not Winston.

 

[Deus Irae]