Brady gone

[sb1]

Wth are you saying. What does 11-5 with Cassel and not making the playoffs get you? A cookie? What does a couple wins with JG mean? Anything? Wth are you talking about.

I have seen Brady step up at critical moments and play mistake free football in 4th Q over and over again to get the team over the line. That was Brady not BB. Now BB is about to fckin realize how special Brady was. 1 yr deal for $23m bull$hit. Fck off with that crap.

Then don’t bring that trash here about BB being nothing without Brady. That is completely false.

Ask the Colts what happened when they lost Manning. Quite a difference between that and 11 wins with a QB who hadn’t started since high school. Colts needed Manning way more than the Patriots needed Brady- numbers don’t lie- and the reason for that is obvious.

 

[Todd Bradley]

Agree to disagree

Okay sure, who carried the offense then? You tell me...

You replace Brady with a mediocre QB and this team would’ve been lucky to win 9 games last year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Let's compare it to adjacent years:

2000 - Bledsoe - no playoffs
2001 - Brady - superbowl berth

2007 - Brady - superbowl berth
2008 - Cassel - no playoffs
2009 - Brady - playoffs

I can't figure out how a 5-11 team could win 9 more games to win the Superbowl the VERY NEXT year. And then I just can't figure out how a nearly undefeated team won 7 fewer games to miss the playoffs the very next year too. And that non-playoff team went back to winning the division the very next year after that.

It's like one thing changed, but I just can't put my finger on what that was.

Nice data. The Cassel interlude is more representative. 11-5 and no playoff berth losing on a tiebreaker. First 11-5 team to miss post season. I don't think this reflects badly on BB at all.

The 2000-2001 change included BB making a wholesale cut of many of the Carrol era guys, keeping a few and BB bringing in a cadre of vets in their last seasons. That cadre was the core of Dynasty One 2001,3,4. BB's turnover in 2001 trains camp was lambasted by the football gurus.

 

[jam757]

Bill Belichick is the greatest head coach and team builder of all time and it’s not even close!!! What he’s been able to accomplish in the salary cap era and even playing field is beyond ridiculous. Blaming one side or the other is just silly at this point. My biggest gripe with a Belichick decision in his tenure was not playing Malcolm Butler against the Eagles. Bill is the GOAT, Brady is the GOAT.

 

[iapatsfan]

Bill Belichick is the greatest head coach and team builder of all time and it’s not even close!!! What he’s been able to accomplish in the salary cap era and even playing field is beyond ridiculous. Blaming one side or the other is just silly at this point. My biggest gripe with a Belichick decision in his tenure was not playing Malcolm Butler against the Eagles. Bill is the GOAT, Brady is the GOAT.

Bill's GM abilities have got to a point where they've hindered his coaching abilities. Need to tank, tank, tank.

 

[jam757]

Bill's GM abilities have got to a point where they've hindered his coaching abilities. Need to tank, tank, tank.

Well, they did win 3 out of 5 Super Bowls and played in 4 out of 5 so there is that...

 

[iapatsfan]

Well, they did win 3 out of 5 Super Bowls and played in 4 out of 5 so there is that...

No doubt, but the cupboard was slowly being stripped and replaced with bad draft picks. That is where we are today. A roster that is completely devoid of talent (outside of a couple of guys on the OL and secondary).

 

[jam757]

I’d say stripping the cupboard bare sometimes is the necessary result to making a sustained run. I’d also question whether it’s really bare. This next season is obviously a cap reset but the D is still talented. Even over the course the of the 20 year run they went through rebuilding. This being the first time without Brady of course. Bill really needs to absolutely nail the next few drafts. What we’ve seen thus far is the typical splashy overpays for Pats players by division opponents which almost never pan out. Sucks to lose some of these guys but no way in hell Van Noy is worth 51 million!

 

[lancerman]

T

Kraft - the scummy rich guy who commissions a painting
Belichick - the procurer of paint, paper, and brushes
Brady - Michelangelo

Kraft: the loving father who buys the coloring book

Belichick: the loving father who provides the crayons and colored pencils, scribbles each color in the right numbers spot to make it easier and stands by watching and guiding

Brady: the crying toddler who still ****s it up 12 out of 18 times

 

[iapatsfan]

I’d say stripping the cupboard bare sometimes is the necessary result to making a sustained run. I’d also question whether it’s really bare. This next season is obviously a cap reset but the D is still talented. Even over the course the of the 20 year run they went through rebuilding. This being the first time without Brady of course. Bill really needs to absolutely nail the next few drafts. What we’ve seen thus far is the typical splashy overpays for Pats players by division opponents which almost never pan out. Sucks to lose some of these guys but no way in hell Van Noy is worth 51 million!

The D is not talented. A number 1 CB who will turn 30 this year, a couple of 33 yr old safeties (should have let McCourty walk), a terrible LB group and a weak DL. I like the Phillips signing, and I like Jackson and Jones, but without a decent pass rusher on the roster those guys will be torched.

Tank, tank, tank.

Also, somebody previously stated Brady has more in common with BB than he does with the young WRs like Harry. We can all agree one thing all three have in common is foot speed. Watching Brady, BB and Harry in a foot race would be interesting, and I'm not sure who I would take. We could even throw Sanu in there to make it more interesting.

 

[iapatsfan]

T

Kraft: the loving father who buys the coloring book

Belichick: the loving father who provides the crayons and colored pencils, scribbles each color in the right numbers spot to make it easier and stands by watching and guiding

Brady: the crying toddler who still ****s it up 12 out of 18 times

Belichick: The guy who drafts guys who can't beat man coverage in college, and then expects them to be able to do so in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nice data. The Cassel interlude is more representative. 11-5 and no playoff berth losing on a tiebreaker. First 11-5 team to miss post season. I don't think this reflects badly on BB at all.

I do (in context of the discussion, not as a standalone), particularly with that easy schedule.

 

[captain stone]

Well, they did win 3 out of 5 Super Bowls and played in 4 out of 5 so there is that...

That was Then; This is Now.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill Belichick is the greatest head coach and team builder of all time and it’s not even close!!!

Really? It's not close? Lombardi... Brown.... not even close?

 

[skinnydog]

11-5 with Cassel.

3-1 with a raw JG and Jacoby Brissett.

Not to mention 2 rings won as a DC. Bill has a track record without Brady. Not the case vice versa.

The 2008 11-5 team was basically the same as the 2007 team that was went undefeated and was one of the best teams of all time in the NFL. So yeah, that was a pretty big drop off. Brady was never the entire team, but he was always the piece that put them over the top.

 

[sb1]

The 2008 11-5 team was basically the same as the 2007 team that was went undefeated and was one of the best teams of all time in the NFL. So yeah, that was a pretty big drop off. Brady was never the entire team, but he was always the piece that put them over the top.

Oh I wasn’t trying to say that Brady to Cassel wasn’t a massive downgrade- it absolutely was. It’s also a testament to Belichick and the rest of the coaching staff that we didn’t end up like the Colts did when they lost Manning.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh I wasn’t trying to say that Brady to Cassel wasn’t a massive downgrade- it absolutely was. It’s also a testament to Belichick and the rest of the coaching staff that we didn’t end up like the Colts did when they lost Manning.

I'd say that it's a testament to the tanking skills of the Colts that they ended up with the #1 overall pick in the year of "suck for Luck".

 

[sb1]

I'd say that it's a testament to the tanking skills of the Colts that they ended up with the #1 overall pick in the year of "suck for Luck".

I really don’t think teams tank. As I said earlier there is no upside to anyone on a team to tank a season. That season cost Polian, his son the GM and Caldwell the coach their jobs along with a bunch of other staff and players so what was the benefit to them to “tank”. That’s why it doesn’t happen. Imo.

The Colts without Manning or a good coach or a good backup QB were just that terrible...remember Caldwell had a .292 record as college coach. Two Ninety Two. Not a typo.

I admit the thought crossed my mind but when I think about it it just doesn’t make sense why anyone would do it deliberately.

 

[Deus Irae]

I really don’t think teams tank. As I said earlier there is no upside to anyone on a team to tank a season. That season cost Polian, his son the GM and Caldwell the coach their jobs along with a bunch of other staff and players so what was the benefit to them to “tank”. That’s why it doesn’t happen. Imo.

The Colts without Manning or a good coach or a good backup QB were just that terrible...remember Caldwell had a .292 record as college coach. Two Ninety Two. Not a typo.

I admit the thought crossed my mind but when I think about it it just doesn’t make sense why anyone would do it deliberately.

They waited forever to bring in a backup/replacement, not signing Collins (39 years old and retired until he got the call) until August 24th. That meant that the starter wasn't ready for the job, and it showed, even before he was lost for the season. If you don't want to call that tanking, call it rank incompetence on a level that no other team would have reached. And that's just one thing that was done, at one position.


In either case, it's not something to be comparing other teams to as some proof that the other team did a good job. Doing better than absolute crap isn't really the standard you want to look to set.


And tanking definitely happens. We saw it happen with the Dolphins last year. That was blatant tanking on the management level.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

The 2008 11-5 team was basically the same as the 2007 team that was went undefeated and was one of the best teams of all time in the NFL. So yeah, that was a pretty big drop off. Brady was never the entire team, but he was always the piece that put them over the top.

Basically the same team? Not exactly. Its #1 CB left and was not adequately replaced, its #1 safety was out most of the year, and suddenly teams with good deep passing games were able to beat them deep. And the 2007 that thrived with its aging LB crew suddenly saw the players act their age (Bruschi, Seau, Vrabel). And the ones who were in their primes never came back from injury fully healed (Colvin) or also got hurt midway through the year (Thomas).

None of that is reflective of the QB play, nor BB the coach. It is reflective of BB the GM.

Tom Brady being fully healthy does not produce an undefeated 2008. The only loss on the schedule that I feel confident would flip with Brady is the Colts one. The rest were defensive and special teams failures. Could Brady have led them back in a few of them anyhow? Maybe; that is what he does after all.

Of course all the Pats needed was that one game to get them to 12-4. The NFL was wide open that year; even that Cassel led team could have won it all had they snuck in. A Brady led 12-4 team would have been the favorites, that’s for sure.