Getting elite wide receivers: Why did BB wait?

[MoLewisrocks]

Yup, and he forgets the Patriots were interested in Walker, but Denver wouldn't let him leave to meet with the Pats. I don't know why I forgot to mention their interest in Walker before.....brain fart I guess

Yup, and when we didn't get Walker (after his pal Deion also reportedly called and warned him you won't get your money in NE, and he needed to be signed to an extension or their was no point trading for him) we opted to draft Jackson. Wayne was signed to his deal several weeks earlier BEFORE the start of FA in the midst of the almost collapse of the CBA. In fact it was at that point that Deion apparently set his price in stone as more than the Colts supposed #2.

 

[sebman2112]

I'm not disagreeing with you there but I guarantee if we had survived the AFC title game and brought home #4, we'd still have Reche Caldwell on the roster and not made such a push for our new receivers. I guarantee our talent level would have gone down like in other offseasons after a Lombardi. I mean, we could of had Donte and Randy last year before the trade deadline.

You don't seem to get that part of this was the difference in cost from last offseason to this offseason when it came to securing these players.

Do you think Stallworth for 1 year (with his having the option of more) was worth a 3rd/4th and Tully Banta-Cain? Looking back now it might seem that way but Banta-Cain played a major role as a rotational OLB for that 2006 NE defense. I'm glad NE has Stallworth now, and I believe he'll be here for the extent of his contract.

Moss might have been available last year, but at that point Oakland wouldn't have given Moss up for anything less than a first rounder, and they hinted to believing his worth to be even more. Who knows if Moss at that point in his career would have ripped up his rather large contract either. Maybe so, but you don't know if his mindset was quite the same in 2006.

 

[stinkypete]

But once they had the cap space this year they went after Stallworth, Welker, AT, Morris and Moss. This is one of the best offseasons in recent Pats history. And the cap bump coupled with not having tied up big dollars to Branch and Givens really helped make it possible.

That is one of the biggest understatements in recent Pats history. The '05-'06 Pats were the most frustrating team I have ever watched. They were sometimes dominant and capable of a comeback now and then, but absolutely sucked a few games a week and seemed incapable of the magic of previous teams.

What the Pats did this offseason is restore that feeling of invincibility that followed the '03-'04 teams. We have a team that is generating 16-0 talk and absolutely embarrasing teams on the road. That would not be happening without Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Morris, Brady and Thomas.

I would say this offseason was our 2nd best in history. If we win the Superbowl or push an undefeated record late into the season, I would go so far as to rank this one #1.

 

[zarakotas5]

40 yard pass-interference calls have only recently become a reliable strategic option for offenses.

 

[Frezo]

Yeah unfortunately the wife holds the key to the nookie. So there you have it.

WRs don't need wives. They have great hands.

 

[mgteich]

So we might have Stallworth for a 3rd or or 4th and Banta-Cain and passed!!!! As I recall Moss was also available when we chose to trade for Gabriel. It would have cost us a 1st or a 2nd. Belichick judged Gabriel the better value.

The reality is that we were fine with Branch, Caldwell and Brown. Obviously losing Branch made the situation worse, but the fact is that Belichick has not thought that Brady needed top receivers.

We had cap room last year, and even in the past. We didn't make stronger moves because we valued the wide receiver position less than other teams, and less than the market. And the record showed that Belichick was right. Brady can win Super Bowls without top wide receivers.
==============

I certainly believe that there was a change in philosophy after last year. There was a changed attitude toward free agency and particularly regarding the wide receiver position.

The cap was larger. Players were available. We could have been conservative and waited for a few weeks to get the best VALUE. No, not this time. This time the opportunities would not be passed up. Was Morris a good value at the time? Surely Stallworth's deal was way too much! Washington's deal was crazy! A second for Welker? Many thought that we overpaid at the time. The reality is more than just that the patriots were right in their evaluation. The reality is that the patriots were willing to be the team that OVERPAID to get their man. The difference with us is that we have the best talent evaluators in the league. And of course, it is great that the greatest receiver ever chose to play to play for us for almost nothing.
=============

IMHO, Belichick really well understands that the Super Bowl should have been easily ours last year, if just a couple of better personnel decisions were made. And yes, everyone realizes that we almost made it anyway. We were one of three equal teams at the end. We could have been a better team.

You have to realize the Patriots originally thought Deion Branch was going to be a member of that 2006 Patriots squad, and it would have been nice if they brought in better receiving options for Brady but they did at least try.

NE was interested in trading for Stallworth but the Saints wanted a 3rd/4th and one of the Patriots backup LB's (I believe it was Banta-Cain) NE thought that was to rich, especially since Stallworth might have split after 2006. It would have been nice to have him last year, though.

They brought in Doug Gabriel who some believed a young developing WR. It turned out Gabriel had an attitude so he found the door.

NE drafts Chad Jackson who some thought was the best WR in the 2006 draft (I still believe he could be) but he goes down with injuries missing most of training camp, and then struggled to get on the field and be effective throughout the 2006 season.

As you mentioned they brought in Donald Hayes who was supposed to be a good WR, and he did nothing. NE also tried to bring in Derrick Mason but he chose the Ravens. They also brought in David Terrell hoping he and Brady would recapture that magic they shared at Michigan....

So, it's been a combination of things. Really, I think the FO has tried to bring in good receiving options in the past but they didn't make it their main priority. This year after dropping that game to the Colts it was obvious Brady needed better weapons so they made it a priority. This time going after Stallworth (and sealing the deal), pulling Welker away from the Dolphins, and gaining Randy Moss from the Raiders for only a 4th round pick.

The other thing to think about is if Randy was available for a 4th round pick in 2006 do you think NE would have pulled the trigger? I sure do, but he wasn't available for a 4th rounder last year which is one of the key differences between the two offseasons.

 

[FrontSeven]

Randy would have been here last year if they could have worked out the contract deal with Big Al.

Deion was supposed to sign last year too. That did not go according to plan. Last year was the anti-perfect storm. This year is the perfect storm.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

I'm not disagreeing with you there but I guarantee if we had survived the AFC title game and brought home #4, we'd still have Reche Caldwell on the roster and not made such a push for our new receivers. I guarantee our talent level would have gone down like in other offseasons after a Lombardi. I mean, we could of had Donte and Randy last year before the trade deadline.

In trying to explain the BB's free agent spending spree while at the same time trying to create some silver lining from that bitter AFCCG loss last January I have thought the same thing. I wouldn't guarantee it though. Just an opinion.

OTOH, if it's true that the Pat's mission statement is something like, "to compete for championships every year," then it would seem contrary to their mission to hold a firesale after securing #4. I guess we'll see. I'm thinking #4 comes in Glendale early next year. Do you think after we win it they'll not re-up for the services of Messrs Moss & Stallworth for another run of sustained excellence in '08?

 

[Absurdly Metro]

So we might have Stallworth for a 3rd or or 4th and Banta-Cain and passed!!!! As I recall Moss was also available when we chose to trade for Gabriel. It would have cost us a 1st or a 2nd. Belichick judged Gabriel the better value.

The reality is that we were fine with Branch, Caldwell and Brown. Obviously losing Branch made the situation worse, but the fact is that Belichick has not thought that Brady needed top receivers.

We had cap room last year, and even in the past. We didn't make stronger moves because we valued the wide receiver position less than other teams, and less than the market. And the record showed that Belichick was right. Brady can win Super Bowls without top wide receivers.
==============

I certainly believe that there was a change in philosophy after last year. There was a changed attitude toward free agency and particularly regarding the wide receiver position.

The cap was larger. Players were available. We could have been conservative and waited for a few weeks to get the best VALUE. No, not this time. This time the opportunities would not be passed up. Was Morris a good value at the time? Surely Stallworth's deal was way too much! Washington's deal was crazy! A second for Welker? Many thought that we overpaid at the time. The reality is more than just that the patriots were right in their evaluation. The reality is that the patriots were willing to be the team that OVERPAID to get their man. The difference with us is that we have the best talent evaluators in the league. And of course, it is great that the greatest receiver ever chose to play to play for us for almost nothing.
=============

IMHO, Belichick really well understands that the Super Bowl should have been easily ours last year, if just a couple of better personnel decisions were made. And yes, everyone realizes that we almost made it anyway. We were one of three equal teams at the end. We could have been a better team.

Well said.

 

[loosebearing]

But People keep saying that Branch didn't sign here last year.

That little twerp was under contract and screwed the team.

Plus with all the rule changes by Polian etc. the game has changed from the mugger of the "skill" players being more valuable to the skill players being more valuable. (First SuperBowl watch film of Willie McGinist, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, and Tebucky Jones legally mugging Holt, Faulk etc.)

But with the competition committee (is it cheating if the rules are changed to reduce the dominance of elite teams ?) changing rules to make it easier for the "don't hit me" players then the Pats ADAPTED. (All the muggers are gone)
Finally when Pollian got the needed cap increase for his team the Pats were so far below it that they had open season on veteran players while other teams were still trying to fit their own in under an even Higher cap.

Bill just keeps Adapting and beating everyone at whatever game they play.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Randy Moss's postgame quote from a couple weeks ago has stuck with me (paraphrasing): "Peyton Manning has his wide receivers. There's no reason Tom Brady can't have his own." My question is, why did it take BB so long to emphasize that position so the Patriots could take full advantage of Brady's ability?

The answer could be: (A). there has been a fundamental change in BB's offensive philosophy or, (B). the opportunity never presented itself in the right players being available at the right time.

Neither answer really satisfies me, although I'm leaning heavily toward (B), because BB has tried to bring in free agent wide receivers in the past, some of whom got here and didn't pan out, and some of whom chose to go elsewhere. There's also the ongoing Chad Jackson saga. Still, you've got to wonder what might have been if Brady had better weapons at his disposal throughout his career, especially last season. Was this a gross oversight by BB that finally has been rectified?

It's frustrating honestly, Brady to me has been cheated out of putting up incredible numbers for the last 6 years. He has made fine wine out of flat pepsi for the last 6 years. To be one first down from taking his team to a 4th Superbowl with the likes of Caldwell and Gaffney speak volumes of how truly great he really is.

The key now is to lock Moss up to a long term contract, we cannot let this guy ride off into the sunset and sign some mega deal somewhere else. Brady and Moss will go down as Montana Rice for the next 4-5 years if Randy stays. I hope S Pioli is working out the long term details as we speak.

 

[loosebearing]

It's frustrating honestly, Brady to me has been cheated out of putting up incredible numbers for the last 6 years. He has made fine wine out of flat pepsi for the last 6 years. To be one first down from taking his team to a 4th Superbowl with the likes of Caldwell and Gaffney speak volumes of how truly great he really is.

The key now is to lock Moss up to a long term contract, we cannot let this guy ride off into the sunset and sign some mega deal somewhere else. Brady and Moss will go down as Montana Rice for the next 4-5 years if Randy stays. I hope S Pioli is working out the long term details as we speak.

You must be kidding me - 3 SuperBowls aren't incredible numbers.

You Payton Manning, Dan Marino fan.

 

[BlitzFritz]

dont forget -- salary cap went up significantly. given strength in all other positions on the value curve, he could afford to spend more, and did so on WR

up until then, he always went on the cheap for receivers, because he believed that was what they were worth in an $80M cap universe.

 

[patsfaninpa]

The reason is quite simple. The rules have changed the last couple of years compared to Tom's early years. Now that offensive linemen can hold, DB's can't look cross at a wr, qb's can't be touched, it's better to spend your money on skill position players. DL aren't as valuable anymore. Because you can tackle them. Offenses can run pick plays at lb's and db's and it's not even questioned. I might sound like a disgruntled defensive. Well, I am.

I think the NFL better be careful here. It's pretty hopeless unless you have a top-notch qb anymore. You can have a good running game, defense and special teams. But, if you don't have a qb who can chuck it around the lot. Forget about it. I know it's always been that way to a degree. Don't count on seeing any Brad Johnson's and Trent Dilfer's leading their teams to Super Bowls. It actually helps the Pats now. But, I still prefer rock em sock em football. Than an offensive player looking for a penalty flag after every failed play. Yes, that last comment was a cheap-shot at P.Manning. I caught his act last night. Calling for roughing when he's tackled, talking to the officials when he throws an incomplete pass. He's a great qb. But, I can't stand him.

 

[BradyToMoss]

You must be kidding me - 3 SuperBowls aren't incredible numbers.

You Payton Manning, Dan Marino fan.

My point exactly he got three rings playing with Pop Warner wide receivers, can you imagine what he would have done with real wideouts. Tom Brady is the greatest QB in the history of this league, end of story.

 

[Fahrenhype]

The reason is quite simple. The rules have changed the last couple of years compared to Tom's early years. Now that offensive linemen can hold, DB's can't look cross at a wr, qb's can't be touched, it's better to spend your money on skill position players. DL aren't as valuable anymore. Because you can tackle them. Offenses can run pick plays at lb's and db's and it's not even questioned. I might sound like a disgruntled defensive. Well, I am.

Yup. This is now the NaPolian Football league. I still look back fondly of the the not-to-distant past where defenses were actually allowed to play defense but if you sneeze these days it is a pass interference call. The league has shifted to be more focused on offense, and Belichick has reacted accordingly. I still hope he gets on the D's ass about some of the tackling though. This isn't flag football yet. I'm sure that will be worked in league meetings next spring though.

 

[patchick]

I think just about every post in this thread has been right. It's probably a little bit of everything. BB & co. did make significant efforts to sign a few high-level FA WRs. They did expect Branch to be on the roster last year. And they also seem to have changed their philosophy in a couple of ways:

- Emphasizing the position more after seeing how passing offense dominates the new NFL

and

- Giving up on drafting WRs.

This last bit hasn't been mentioned much. BB has spent three 2nd-round picks on receivers. Then entering a draft with an obvious major need at receiver he traded 3 draft picks for veteran WRs and didn't draft a single one. It's been shown statistically that WR is the most unpredictable position to draft high, and early signs are that BB has tossed away his crystal ball. Gimme a guy who already knows how to get it done.

 

[patsfaninpa]

l. Gimme a guy who already knows how to get it done.

Hmmm. Now there is a gal with common sense!

 

[Brady to Brown]

dont forget -- salary cap went up significantly. given strength in all other positions on the value curve, he could afford to spend more, and did so on WR

up until then, he always went on the cheap for receivers, because he believed that was what they were worth in an $80M cap universe.

He was wrong.

 

[Mangold74]

My feeling is that all along the Pats front office plan was to build up the lines and the depth before they started going after luxury skill players in the first day and in free agency. Once the lines were in place they could afford to upgrade the skill positions by bringing in Maroney, Moss, Welker, Stallworth, etc... Until you have the lines it's pointless to bring in players like that. It's sort of like building a house, you put the down the foundation, build the structure, then you add the nice looking stuff. It's the right way to build a team that is consistently competitive. Great lines and a great qb.