Antonio Brown Update

[shmessy]

The Patriots championship drought aligned with Mankins career (2005-13), which makes his legacy one of the most polarizing on this forum. I personally felt like he was overpaid and not worth it, especially considering how many times in the postseason he got gashed (Jets, Ravens, Giants) and was completely overrun like a JAG. That is somewhat mitigated because he played through some gruesome injuries, including an ACL tear in 2011, but it also became a pattern to expect each year.

My opinion: Mankins shouldn't be judged negatively because he didn't win a Super Bowl alone, though criticism of how he actually played at times during those runs is worthy of legit criticism. And I think spending that much money on a guard is a bad economic investment considering they've often found good interior linemen in the middle rounds. Unless you're talking about a John Hannah type of player, I don't like the value there. I think it's a valid point that they let him go and didn't suffer that much at the position, even though he was still good for a year in Tampa Bay. Rare bad investment by Bill.

All that said, this approach of Super Bowl winner = good; no Super Bowls = bad is beyond ridiculous. There are a lot of factors and luck involved in winning a Super Bowl. And if anyone would take Deion Branch or Troy Brown (Super Bowl winners) over Randy Moss (Super Bowl loser) in their primes because they think that gives you a better chance to win, that is a really, really dumb conclusion. Tom Brady is a 14X pro bowl player...I don't really see what your point is about pro bowls being irrelevant; they do give an indication that a player is good. More good players give you a better chance to win the Super Bowl, generally speaking.

Excellent and fair analysis. Of course good players are important. Great players are even better. The key is whether their talents and cap space translate into benefiting the team as a whole.

I fully agree that SB = good and runner up = bad is not the criteria. But the reply is to those who had claimed that ONE player this year, if held onto, was the difference in the Patriots team fate. That's not how it works in the NFL.

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[shmessy]

Yes dig your heels in and defend your clown take. Lets crap on one of the best players in team history because he didn't win a ring. If only they had traded him earlier we would've won another 2 or 3 rings!!!

You're simply typing without thinking. Read Ice-Ice's post above yours to see someone who is actually thinking on this subject (and that compliment comes from someone who has been arguing vociferously with Ice-Ice in other areas).

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[supafly]

Never change, Biffins, never change!

We’ve got Biffins Roesenhaus, over here. Spreading the message one post at a time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Excellent and fair analysis. Of course good players are important. Great players are even better. The key is whether their talents and cap space translate into benefiting the team as a whole.

I fully agree that SB = good and runner up = bad is not the criteria. But the reply is to those who had claimed that ONE player this year, if held onto, was the difference in the Patriots team fate. That's not how it works in the NFL.

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It sure would have helped but is a stretch to say they would be in the Super Bowl with any certainty. I still think the lack of a capable tight end was a bigger issue than losing Brown. Look at all the guys in 2018 who made defenses go crazy because they didn't know if a run or pass was coming: Develin, Gronkowski, Patterson, Allen (somewhat). Brown would not have helped with that aspect of the offense. Pretty much everything that could go wrong, in terms of injuries, suspensions, etc., did go wrong. By the end of the season that offense was so bad I don't know if any receiver in the league could have put them over the top.

 

[shmessy]

It sure would have helped but is a stretch to say they would be in the Super Bowl with any certainty. I still think the lack of a capable tight end was a bigger issue than losing Brown. Look at all the guys in 2018 who made defenses go crazy because they didn't know if a run or pass was coming: Develin, Gronkowski, Patterson, Allen (somewhat). Brown would not have helped with that aspect of the offense. Pretty much everything that could go wrong, in terms of injuries, suspensions, etc., did go wrong. By the end of the season that offense was so bad I don't know if any receiver in the league could have put them over the top.

In addition to all that, I still think the loss of 4 experienced and talented long-time assistant coaches really hurt the team far more than many think.

The fact that they lost Flores, Daley, Shuplinski and O'Shea all at once and replaced them with 1st timers Troy Brown and Jerod Mayo, brought in Bielema for his first year in this system and then promoted Bill's kid was a bigger deal under the radar.

The one thing that BB has always preached - Situational Football - was shockingly uncharacteristically bad down the stretch. Losing that Dolphins game at home was not Patriot football. They also mishandled the Bengal game - - Edelman should never have made that trip. Operations were not as sharp as in the past, and I wonder if the Caserio situation was weighing. I hope that they re-sign him for many years and the team ops can get its act together again.

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[shmessy]

We’ve got Biffins Roesenhaus, over here. Spreading the message one post at a time.

Rosenhaus is far more realistic this week.

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[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm not going to defend AB's behavior, but I feel like the NFL is really sticking it to him in a bad way and are likely blackballing him, which is terrible. The league should encourage a team to sign him in some capacity, or they should be going over a rehabilitation plan with him, which would include what it takes for a reinstatement. Because he is not on a team this becomes a lot more complicated, and that's why this blackballing is a really shtty thing to do to a guy with obvious mental health issues, and I think they are doing it as retribution for stealing from the Raiders.

He clearly needs some direction about how to be reinstated instead of being ghosted like this. His life has spiraled out of control; he has hit rock bottom and is a threat to himself and others. Many people from his past have said he was a good/decent guy for years and then just snapped. I don't see how the league can pretend to care about mental health (or this potentially caused by a brain injury) and just leave this guy to rot.

With Josh Gordon, they instructed him to attend counseling, AA, etc. to get conditionally reinstated. They have billions if not trillions of dollars and former players are complaining about how they're discarded. AB should be with some team that is forcing him to go mandatory counseling; he really is out of control and his life is an embarrassing mes. This is just a bad situation for everyone.

For the record, I believe in personal responsibility, but I also believe in common sense in this case.

 

[Fixit]

Good. Agree to some counselling/therapy, 1 year $2m prove it deal, Comeback Player of Year, 1st team All-Pro, Break Moss’ TD record, SB Champion and SB MVP.

Okay, now I know you're trolling.

Otherwise, you're the girl who is totally convinced that she's the one who can finally turn the bad boy around. My God.

 

[Fixit]

I'm not going to defend AB's behavior, but I feel like the NFL is really sticking it to him in a bad way and are likely blackballing him, which is terrible. The league should encourage a team to sign him in some capacity, or they should be going over a rehabilitation plan with him, which would include what it takes for a reinstatement. Because he is not on a team this becomes a lot more complicated, and that's why this blackballing is a really shtty thing to do to a guy with obvious mental health issues, and I think they are doing it as retribution for stealing from the Raiders.

He clearly needs some direction about how to be reinstated instead of being ghosted like this. His life has spiraled out of control; he has hit rock bottom and is a threat to himself and others. Many people from his past have said he was a good/decent guy for years and then just snapped. I don't see how the league can pretend to care about mental health (or this potentially caused by a brain injury) and just leave this guy to rot.

With Josh Gordon, they instructed him to attend counseling, AA, etc. to get conditionally reinstated. They have billions if not trillions of dollars and former players are complaining about how they're discarded. AB should be with some team that is forcing him to go mandatory counseling; he really is out of control and his life is an embarrassing mes. This is just a bad situation for everyone.

For the record, I believe in personal responsibility, but I also believe in common sense in this case.

"He's a threat to himself and others, so the NFL has a responsibility to reinstate him."

What.

 

[The Brandon Five]

You claimed he "wasn't worth what he was asking". He was a first team All-Pro the year he held out. So try to comprehend here for a second. He was the best guard in the league. He wanted to be paid. In training camp the next year he was the highest paid guard in the league.

You also belittled his career by calling him a "ringless wonder". He was a 7x Pro Bowler, a first team All-Pro, and a 5x second team All-Pro. He was also on the Patriots all 2000's team and the Patriots 50th anniversary team. So it seems to be he more than pulled his weight but I guess by your logic Dan Connolly or Ryan Wendell are better Patriots guards because they have a ring.

I don't really care about whatever pretzel logic you're trying to use to tie him and Antonio Brown together. Saying he "wasn't worth what he was asking" and calling him a "ringless wonder" is just stupid. No need to dig in your heels and defend this foolishness.

However great he was in the regular season, he stunk up the joint in SB 42. He actually played a little better in SB 46 on a torn ACL. Like Tom says, its all about how you play in the biggest moments.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

"He's a threat to himself and others, so the NFL has a responsibility to reinstate him."

What.

No - they should stop blackballing him, which is illegal to do anyway. They sent out a message to teams basically saying not to sign him. Due to that, he has a limited relationship with the NFLPA. They should stop dragging their feet on his punishment.

 

[The Brandon Five]

However great he was in the regular season, he stunk up the joint in SB 42. He actually played a little better in SB 46 on a torn ACL. Like Tom says, its all about how you play in the biggest moments.

Read all about it here:

Offensive Pass Protection Breakdown (EXCELLENT READ)

 

[supafly]

What’s going on today with Brown? Didn’t they issue a warrant last night? I’m assuming that he’s no longer at his house. So, he’s on the run?

 

[Fixit]

No - they should stop blackballing him, which is illegal to do anyway. They sent out a message to teams basically saying not to sign him. Due to that, he has a limited relationship with the NFLPA. They should stop dragging their feet on his punishment.

Where was this "blackballing" message?

At any rate, you said that he's a danger to himself and others, but that the NFL should "encourage" a team to sign him anyway and, you know, be in close proximity to a lot of other people. That's messed up.

 

[Fixit]

What’s going on today with Brown? Didn’t they issue a warrant last night? I’m assuming that he’s no longer at his house. So, he’s on the run?

The role of Al Cowlings will be played by Biffins.

 

[jah]

What’s going on today with Brown? Didn’t they issue a warrant last night? I’m assuming that he’s no longer at his house. So, he’s on the run?

All I could learn from Google is apparently he was going to schedule a fight with Logan Paul but now he's busy.

 

[shmessy]

Where was this "blackballing" message?

At any rate, you said that he's a danger to himself and others, but that the NFL should "encourage" a team to sign him anyway and, you know, be in close proximity to a lot of other people. That's messed up.

It's obvious that anyone near him is at some level of risk. It's been obvious for several months. Why would any owner of any franchise want this person anywhere in a team's facilities??????

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[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Where was this "blackballing" message?

At any rate, you said that he's a danger to himself and others, but that the NFL should "encourage" a team to sign him anyway and, you know, be in close proximity to a lot of other people. That's messed up.

I thought the obvious assumption is that he would be suspended immediately anyway and not be reinstated until he clears multiple hurdles.



This is what blackballed looks like (this was in December; teams still would sign him but clearly are being ordered not to.)
NFL rumors: Antonio Brown drawing interest from 'at least 20' NFL teams

 

[Biffins]

It's obvious that anyone near him is at some level of risk. It's been obvious for several months. Why would any owner of any franchise want this person anywhere in a team's facilities??????

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Because you can have an All-Pro talent for free? Remember we signed Moss to a 1 yr $3m deal when no other team would touch him.

 

[Fixit]

I thought the obvious assumption is that he would be suspended immediately anyway and not be reinstated until he clears multiple hurdles.



This is what blackballed looks like (this was in December; teams still would sign him but clearly are being ordered not to.)
NFL rumors: Antonio Brown drawing interest from 'at least 20' NFL teams

That is most definitely not what blackballing is. They made the point that they can't place him on the exempt list while he's a free agent, and also that any teams considering signing him should be aware that the investigation is ongoing.