Patriots QB Conundrum - How Many, And Who?

[TomPatriot]

There is no "other side". There are PATRIOTS FANS who took a position contrary to yours and others. I read your posts leading up to the cuts and I have no argument with your analysis. I have a big problem with the way you mock other members who disagree with your analyses. Newsflash, Kiper Jr...there's ALWAYS going to be fans who argue pro and con on a sports messageboard.

These words of wisdom (minus the Newsflash, Kiper, Jr.) should be pinned at the top of the Forum. It’s a policy many of us would do well to heed.

 

[luuked]

Stidham is much less experienced but he’s a better player than Hoyer even right now.

Nope he is not. He might have a higher potential upside and accuracy but right now he is definitely not the better player.

He had issues moving the ball against the lowest tier of the Giants and Panthers defense, by far doesn't have the understanding of the Pats system that Hoyer does, and doesn't have any NFL experience (and it shows when you watch Hoyer diagnose most things presnap and be calmer post snap). What he does have is bad ball security and a tendency to take off if the first or second read are not there.

Now the good news is that most of that will fix itself with more reps, video reviews, gameplan sessions and experience. But claiming he is a better player right now is ridiculous. Hoyer's experience alone sets him apart.

Ultimately, I don't understand why people disrespect him so much. In contrast to most career backups he actually has started a considerable amount of games, led a team to the playoffs and has impressive stats for who people want him to be (he is closer to Tannehill than most would think possible). And that is before pointing out his value as scouting team QB preparing the D through the week.

In the end this was BB valuing the roster spot on an absolutely loaded team, additional reps for Stidham and a little bit of cap space over the risk of Brady getting injured. If it all works out then it is obviously a win-win that nobody will ever talk about again. If it doesn't because Brady misses a couple games and Stidham has not made enough strides to keep the team afloat then it might be fatal to an otherwise absolutely loaded team.

 

[moosekill]

Nope he is not. He might have a higher potential upside and accuracy but right now he is definitely not the better player.

He had issues moving the ball against the lowest tier of the Giants and Panthers defense, by far doesn't have the understanding of the Pats system that Hoyer does, and doesn't have any NFL experience (and it shows when you watch Hoyer diagnose most things presnap and be calmer post snap). What he does have is bad ball security and a tendency to take off if the first or second read are not there.

Now the good news is that most of that will fix itself with more reps, video reviews, gameplan sessions and experience. But claiming he is a better player right now is ridiculous. Hoyer's experience alone sets him apart.

Ultimately, I don't understand why people disrespect him so much. In contrast to most career backups he actually has started a considerable amount of games, led a team to the playoffs and has impressive stats for who people want him to be (he is closer to Tannehill than most would think possible). And that is before pointing out his value as scouting team QB preparing the D through the week.

In the end this was BB valuing the roster spot on an absolutely loaded team, additional reps for Stidham and a little bit of cap space over the risk of Brady getting injured. If it all works out then it is obviously a win-win that nobody will ever talk about again. If it doesn't because Brady misses a couple games and Stidham has not made enough strides to keep the team afloat then it might be fatal to an otherwise absolutely loaded team.

Unlike Hoyer, he actually played against the #1's this preseason,with a backup center and a bunch of players who after a bit, are no longer on the team. Based upon that, I am not sure how you can decide he isn't a better qb right now than Hoyer is. Hoyer looked great in the first game against garbage competition and ok in the second game against mediocre competition. He never faced top level competition in the games we saw on tv. Hoyer obviously is much more experienced and with a larger roster he would probably still be on the team. But, in the end, Bill thought it more valuable to have 2 qb's and an extra player than 3 qb's one of whom hopefully won't ever play or suit up.

 

[Clonamery]

Unlike Hoyer, he actually played against the #1's this preseason,with a backup center and a bunch of players who after a bit, are no longer on the team. Based upon that, I am not sure how you can decide he isn't a better qb right now than Hoyer is. Hoyer looked great in the first game against garbage competition and ok in the second game against mediocre competition. He never faced top level competition in the games we saw on tv. Hoyer obviously is much more experienced and with a larger roster he would probably still be on the team. But, in the end, Bill thought it more valuable to have 2 qb's and an extra player than 3 qb's one of whom hopefully won't ever play or suit up.

So BB didn't want Hoyer back?

 

[meatface]

Lets appreciate Hoyer with his only regular season TD pass as a Patriot. 42 yard dime to Brandon Tate against the Dolphins in week 17 of the 2010 season.

 

[moosekill]

Lol, well my personal feeling is Bill really loves Hoyer and has him on the super secret roster with a wink wink nod nod set up. He has promised Hoyer a coaching job for next season if he takes the backup job with the Colts so he can ferment discontent on the Colts team, leading to their eventual demise. Next the plan is to get the Colts to cut him, and then he will be picked up by the Jets. Now by the middle of the season it will have become obvious to everyone that Darnold is garbage, and they will be looking for his replacement. Hoyer will be picked up and lead them to enough victories to cement them in the 6 win area, making sure their draft picks suck and once again making sure they continue to suck going forward.

It was obvious to me in his limited playing time that Hoyer was perhaps the greatest quarterback to ever play and any comparison to Brady or Stidham would be foolish. I was completely shocked and astounded that Bill would cut Hoyer, and therfore this is really the only possible explanation.

 

[luuked]

Unlike Hoyer, he actually played against the #1's this preseason,with a backup center and a bunch of players who after a bit, are no longer on the team. Based upon that, I am not sure how you can decide he isn't a better qb right now than Hoyer is. Hoyer looked great in the first game against garbage competition and ok in the second game against mediocre competition. He never faced top level competition in the games we saw on tv. Hoyer obviously is much more experienced and with a larger roster he would probably still be on the team. But, in the end, Bill thought it more valuable to have 2 qb's and an extra player than 3 qb's one of whom hopefully won't ever play or suit up.

I saw one playing like a career backup veteran and another like a upside rookie.

With both you saw for the better and worse why they are where they are right now. You saw in good and bad flashes why Hoyer keeps getting jobs but why he could never really become a long term starter. And with Stidham you saw his potential as he looked unexpectedly good in situations where he felt comfortable and panicky in those where he is still learning showing why he was not drafted earlier.

One had command and understanding of the entire offense in his mind even if his physical limitations hinder him from doing exactly what he wants to do, the other looked like someone who is getting vertical slices of the playbook -- and not the entire thing at once -- but might have the physical tools to make all the throws.

Like you, me and most people around here have been saying it all comes down to value. I was on the side of being more risk averse with your QB position given a loaded roster. BB thought differently and he knows best obviously. He sees Stidham every day, I only saw some tape after the draft and then his preseason appearances.

 

[TomPatriot]

Nope he is not. He might have a higher potential upside and accuracy but right now he is definitely not the better player.

He had issues moving the ball against the lowest tier of the Giants and Panthers defense, by far doesn't have the understanding of the Pats system that Hoyer does, and doesn't have any NFL experience (and it shows when you watch Hoyer diagnose most things presnap and be calmer post snap). What he does have is bad ball security and a tendency to take off if the first or second read are not there.

Now the good news is that most of that will fix itself with more reps, video reviews, gameplan sessions and experience. But claiming he is a better player right now is ridiculous. Hoyer's experience alone sets him apart.

Ultimately, I don't understand why people disrespect him so much. In contrast to most career backups he actually has started a considerable amount of games, led a team to the playoffs and has impressive stats for who people want him to be (he is closer to Tannehill than most would think possible). And that is before pointing out his value as scouting team QB preparing the D through the week.

In the end this was BB valuing the roster spot on an absolutely loaded team, additional reps for Stidham and a little bit of cap space over the risk of Brady getting injured. If it all works out then it is obviously a win-win that nobody will ever talk about again. If it doesn't because Brady misses a couple games and Stidham has not made enough strides to keep the team afloat then it might be fatal to an otherwise absolutely loaded team.

This is kinda the standard view but I disagree. Hoyer might be a better game manager and scout team QB, but his passing skills leave a lot to be desired and infect have deteriorated.

And to the extent Hoyer could run when he was younger, he can't anymore. If you watched him in preseason you had to see that he was ineffective in the Tennessee game in the limited time he played and that, among other things, led to no reps in the last two games. The fact is that he couldn't beat Stidham out and I think the development angle is a nice way of saying Stidham was a better passer and runner.