Better Decade

[borg]

Most dominant: this decade.....not even close
AFC East titles, AFC championships, Super Bowl appearances

Best Patriots teams: Last decade.....not even close
Dominant defenses, 16-0 Air Show, Best Pats team ever (2004)

Problem with this decade of greatness: No real AFC nemesis like the 00's
Even Robert has gotten distracted

 

[aluminum seats]

Brady got hurt in the AFCCG.
Neal got hurt in the SB
The TEs got dinged up along the way.

That 2004 team didn't have the secondary coverage ability to stop that 2007 arsenal, IMO. Neither did the Giants, before those Patriots injuries. And, I think people make too much of the whole "figure the Patriots out" thing:

Nov 18: 56 v. Buffalo
Nov 25: 31 v. Philly
Dec 3: 27 v. Baltimore
Dec 9: 34 v. Pitt
Dec 16: 20 v. Jets
Dec 23: 28 v. Miami
Dec 29: 38 v. Giants
Jan 12: 31 v. Jags
Jan 20: 21 v. Chargers
Feb 3: 14 v. Giants

Points weren't a problem until Brady got hurt v. the Chargers. And, even in that Chargers game, the Patriots got the ball with 9:13 left in the 4th quarter and were able to grind out the clock and keep the ball for the rest of the game.

Definitely true that injuries can skew how teams are remembered. My leaning toward 2004 comes from a couple of things, including the core of the defense being younger in 2004, a more consistent and effective running game with Dillon in 2004, and just the overall sense that that team could morph into different shapes to get the job done, whatever it took.

Of course, a lot of the time teams are viewed differently depending on whether or not they won it all, which ultimately probably isn’t really fair.

 

[Raymond]

Probably 113.

================

IMO, the '07 Patriots were the most dominant team I ever saw in my life (I'd consider myself a serious NFL fan from 1993-present....and watched casually as a kid from 1980-1993).

I remember going to a bar in California for the Redskins game when they had Sean Taylor. The Redskin fans came outta the woodwork....the bar was like 10-1 Redskins to Patriot fans.... and there was a dude I watched games there with for years who had this awesome Pat Patriot Chuck Taylor sneakers that I have never been able to find anywhere online....so he is seated across the bar from me. The middle of the bar is mobbed with Skins fans....they were talking so much trash pre-game....very electric atmosphere....

The Pats just KILLED the Skins that day...they just moved the ball with sheer will....like knife cutting warm butter....I wasn't even rooting that hard. I was even in shock....and kept exchanging glances with this Pat fan across the bar but it was the kind of a glance like, "Oh my god....this is OUR football team....."

The Skins fans were all shell shocked.....and dead quiet by the 2nd quarter when it was 24-0.

I think that game was the apex of that season....when we hit 8-0.....we struggled to hit 16-0....we started to lose some of it late in the year.

That season still kills me to this day....

We all remember that game, although not with the perspective you do. The national story all that week was "The Patriots and Bill B. disrespected the legendary Joe Gibbs in running up the score"

We were hated, Spygate was 7 weeks old then.

 

[farn]

Voted 10s. I know I’ve been guilty of assuming the 03-04 teams’ defences were easily superior, but I think we overlook 14-15-16 and this past season. The thing is : it wasn’t as much of a beatdown, but when you consider the offensive slant (rules, innovations, etc) NE has done an exceptional job at not allowing points.

Not stating they were “better” but rule changes are a factor.

 

[Biffins]

If the 2004 Pats played the 2007 Pats, my money would be on the 2004 team.

I know you're letting the fact the 2004 team won the SB and 2007 didn't cloud your judgement.

As has been stated already, the 2007 Pats were the most dominant regular season team of the last 50 years. This is verifiable as they had the highest spread on average going into every game. And so was their overall point differential. They were winning games again and again by 30, 40 points. When they completely destroyed the 5-0 Cowboys on the road in a packed Texas stadium scoring 48 points behind 5 Tom Brady touchdowns, the whole world woke up to what was happening.

I know Pats lost that SB behind basically because our interior OL collapsed, but I will never forget that regular season. Nothing comes close.

This is the SI cover after Pats destroyed the unbeaten Cowboys team in Texas stadium.

Yes, they were that good.

 

[Joey007]

It has to be the 2010’s.

The 2000, 2002 and 2009 teams have to sink the decade a bit.

We only have had ONE year this entire decade where we did not reach the AFC Title game, and we went 14-2 that year.

To me, it’s not even close.

 

[Uptown]

The 2020s

 

[aluminum seats]

And, I think people make too much of the whole "figure the Patriots out" thing

I know you're letting the fact the 2004 team won the SB and 2007 didn't cloud your judgement.

As has been stated already, the 2007 Pats were the most dominant regular season team of the last 50 years. This is verifiable as they had the highest spread on average going into every game. And so was their overall point differential. They were winning games again and again by 30, 40 points. When they completely destroyed the 5-0 Cowboys on the road in a packed Texas stadium scoring 48 points behind 5 Tom Brady touchdowns, the whole world woke up to what was happening.

I know Pats lost that SB behind basically because our interior OL collapsed, but I will never forget that regular season. Nothing comes close.

This is the SI cover after Pats destroyed the unbeaten Cowboys team in Texas stadium.

Yes, they were that good.

Well, as I said before, winning it all can definitely play a part in how a team is perceived. And as I said, not always fair. However, in another way, it is fair. A team’s greatness is partly decided by getting the job done, regardless of circumstances.

As to how great the patriots offense was the first half of 2007, no doubt. But, looking at the scores from the first half of that season compared to the second, teams did sort of start figuring the patriots out. The patriots outscored opponents by 204 points the first half of the season, by 113 points the second half. It was not the same team. And I do think the defense of 2004 was better.

All I can say is, if my life was on the line, I would take that 2004 team to go to war with.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

 

[Triumph]

2000s team

The 2003 NE defense was BBs best ever. They were ranked 1 in so many categories. Give me Ted Washington and try to run the and Rodney Harrison was the best NE Safety to this day.

Back to back super bowls.

I can't count the year 2000 when BB took over the team

 

[aluminum seats]

I wonder if the Jets are having a similar debate over on their board.

 

[neuronet]

16-0 goes a hell of a long way towards countering everything other than SB wins.

Man that game sucked....

 

[Deus Irae]

Definitely true that injuries can skew how teams are remembered. My leaning toward 2004 comes from a couple of things, including the core of the defense being younger in 2004, a more consistent and effective running game with Dillon in 2004, and just the overall sense that that team could morph into different shapes to get the job done, whatever it took.

Of course, a lot of the time teams are viewed differently depending on whether or not they won it all, which ultimately probably isn’t really fair.

Just to follow up on this part of the discussion, a little tiny bit, just to note that when a loss happens is also a major influence. It might end up looking as if I'm bashing you in some way, so let me say in advance that no bashing, whatsoever, is intended, and that I'm just laying out a discussion point.

You are talking up that 2004 team as the Patriots best, and one of the best of all time. Yet, here's a different look at things:

1. That 2004 team was actually not the winningest team in the AFC that regular season. That title belonged to the 15-1 Steelers.
2. That 2004 team split the season with the Steelers, who had a better regular season record by virtue of the regular season victory, and both times the winning team won by 14 points. Had the win/loss been in reverse, Nobody would talk about that 2004 team as anything but a disappointment, and people would be listing that Steelers team among the most dominant in football history.
3. Now, to go along with that, and even ignoring the injury issues, imagine that 2007 team losing the last game of the regular season to the Giants, and then getting revenge by winning the SB, rather than those happening in the reverse.

 

[Deus Irae]

Man that game sucked....

That game may be the greatest example of "If only" in sports history. I say that not because there was one signature play, but because there were so many "If only" issues in that game. From injury to play call decisions to blown calls to 6 inches of air to freak luck to player brain lock, any one of the many "if only" issues would probably have changed the outcome of the game.

 

[50-yard-line]

Best decade: this one, the 10's.

Best team: '07. Not close for me. The only team I've ever witnessed in the same class as that '07 Pats team was the '85 Bears.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Besides the 2 non playoff teams and probably 2009 & 2013 every other team had a realistic chance to win it all if things fell right. The line is so fine between winning and losing and often outside of the teams control. The difference between the 2007 SB loss and the 2016 SB win may have come down to a call by the refs. If they had called the obvious holding on the Tyree catch the Pats likely end up stopping that drive and stamped 2007 as the greatest team ever. If the refs called a face mask penalty on Logan Ryan it would have offset the Falcons hold and kept them in FG range.

 

[Redstorm]

If the 2004 team played any Patiots team, the 2004 team would win.

That 2007 team was great but seemed to taper off late in the year.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If the 2004 team played any Patiots team, the 2004 team would win.

2004 vs. 1976?

Brady vs. Grogan.

Wow.

I'm glad it's not real, because one Pats team would lose

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I'll take "Why everybody else hates Pats fans" for $100, Alex.

Regards,
Chris

 

[aluminum seats]

Just to follow up on this part of the discussion, a little tiny bit, just to note that when a loss happens is also a major influence. It might end up looking as if I'm bashing you in some way, so let me say in advance that no bashing, whatsoever, is intended, and that I'm just laying out a discussion point.

You are talking up that 2004 team as the Patriots best, and one of the best of all time. Yet, here's a different look at things:

1. That 2004 team was actually not the winningest team in the AFC that regular season. That title belonged to the 15-1 Steelers.
2. That 2004 team split the season with the Steelers, who had a better regular season record by virtue of the regular season victory, and both times the winning team won by 14 points. Had the win/loss been in reverse, Nobody would talk about that 2004 team as anything but a disappointment, and people would be listing that Steelers team among the most dominant in football history.
3. Now, to go along with that, and even ignoring the injury issues, imagine that 2007 team losing the last game of the regular season to the Giants, and then getting revenge by winning the SB, rather than those happening in the reverse.

Fair point, I guess the flip side of that would be to say that it’s a mark of a better team to win the games that are more important. But it’s a fine line for sure.