Jim Nagy, Tedy Bruschi on how Patriots draft

[BaconGrundleCandy]

In theory he would be graded as a late round pick. No?

I guess it depends. I have a cut off & if you don't get an (X) grade you're an udfa type. I get your point though. Imo theres very little difference between anything after the 4th-udfa.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

BTW- I've caught Nagy a couple of times during this run up to the draft and he has yet to fail to offer at least one insight per viewing that made me smarter about some part of the process.

Thats bc hes terrible Ken.

*Edit* Oh wow you really like him? I definitely read that wrong.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I guess it depends. I have a cut off & if you don't get an (X) grade you're an udfa type. I get your point though. Imo theres very little difference between anything after the 4th-udfa.

Plus a history of injuries or controversy can cause a good player to be skipped.

 

[patfanken]

For the record:



I dunno, but it seems really, really weird if the conclusion to be drawn here is that "Safety #4" is a role that's worth almost as high a draft pick as any WR role is.

That's was never my point....and I think you know it. They drafted him to be a safety. He couldn't wasn't good enough to get on the field ahead of McCourty, Chung and Harmon. However after getting to Detroit he was a solid starter for them for a few years.

The point is that he wasn't a horrible football player and it wasn't some disaster of a pick. We can play the " well they COULD have had player X instead of ...." every year if we want to really torture ourselves. There have been SOOO many of those posts over the years that it makes wonder how it was possible that we've had any success at all.

 

[primetime]

Im still wierded out by the Gronk pick at a conspiracy theory level

There was a video of Gronk BEFORE the draft where he said something along the lines of "its going to be awesome playing with Tom Brady, its going to be great!"

He basically said matter of factly that he was going to enjoy playing on the Patriots with Brady... and this was BEFORE the draft

my 5% belief in conspiracy theories kicked on with that video.. I'll try to find it

I also remember a certain poster on this board (forgot who) flipped out on me for even mentioning that I thought it was strange... which I also thought was very strange lol... he was like over the top defensive about it, ALMOST LIKE HE KNEW!

You're going to be disappeared any minute now

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's was never my point....and I think you know it. They drafted him to be a safety. He couldn't wasn't good enough to get on the field ahead of McCourty, Chung and Harmon. However after getting to Detroit he was a solid starter for them for a few years.

The point is that he wasn't a horrible football player and it wasn't some disaster of a pick. We can play the " well they COULD have had player X instead of ...." every year if we want to really torture ourselves. There have been SOOO many of those posts over the years that it makes wonder how it was possible that we've had any success at all.

While I was responding to your post, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm not arguing that Wilson and Richards were bad players, per se. What every one has spent years trying to understand is why Belichick felt both of them were worth drafting in the second round.

 

[PittPatriot]

Sorry PP, but you just hit on a sore point. Tavon Wilson was NOT a bad pick. He didn't do more for the Pats NOT because he wasn't any good, but because of who was ahead of him on the depth chart. He has proven in Detroit that, while not a standout, he was a solid starting S in the league.

In NE he had Chung, Harmon, McCourty, etc that he was competing with for snaps. Being the #4 S in a group that was rarely hurt is not going to get you noticed. Too many fans never forgave him for biting on a play action pass against Seattle as a injury replacement ROOKIE that proved to be the winning score.

Christ, Brady beat Troy Polomaluu on play action passes multiple times a game for a DECADE, and yet Wilson been crucified for having it happen once in his rookie year. If the goal of the draft is to bring in players who are good enough to play in the NFL, Wilson was a success....just not here

Again sorry for the pet peeve reaction.

Great post and points, as always Ken.
I just don’t think he was worthy of a 2nd round pick.

 

[patfanken]

While I was responding to your post, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm not arguing that Wilson and Richards were bad players, per se. What every one has spent years trying to understand is why Belichick felt both of them were worth drafting in the second round.

Well if were Wilson I'd be more than insulted that my name be mentioned in the same breath as Richards. He WAS a bad player as well as a piss poor pick.....as it turned out. But we all know THAT happens almost half the time for every team.

BTW- I rarely get pissed of myself when a pick doesn't work out. That is simply the nature of the process. However I do get riled sometimes when a player is unjustly criticized just because it didn't work out here.

 

[patfanken]

Great post and points, as always Ken.
I just don’t think he was worthy of a 2nd round pick.

Fair enough. You were in good company. There were a LOT of guys who get paid a lot of money to "know", who didn't "know" Tavon Wilson.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Well if were Wilson I'd be more than insulted that my name be mentioned in the same breath as Richards. He WAS a bad player as well as a piss poor pick.....as it turned out. But we all know THAT happens almost half the time for every team.

BTW- I rarely get pissed of myself when a pick doesn't work out. That is simply the nature of the process. However I do get riled sometimes when a player is unjustly criticized just because it didn't work out here.

Wilson was a much better player imo but I don't think it's a stretch to say both were big time reaches at the time & now.

Its obvious why both were picked though. Bill doesn't like surprises, likes knowing what he's getting. The stronger the character the higher the value he places on a prospect.

Wilson w his versatility, tenacity & "Coach" Richards.

 

[stinkypete]

For the record:



I dunno, but it seems really, really weird if the conclusion to be drawn here is that "Safety #4" is a role that's worth almost as high a draft pick as any WR role is.

Wilson wasn't drafted to be safety #4 in 2012, he was drafted to be the starting SS in 2013 and beyond. Chung was falling out of favor and approaching free agency in 2012 and was almost completely out of rotation by the end of that year.

Looking at Wilson's playing time in 2013, the pick appears almost indefensible. He was healthy for 13 out of 16 weeks and could only muster 2% of the defensive reps over Steve Gregory?

 

[SBLIII]

Couldn't disagree with you more on your first comment. It is MUCH harder to find QUALITY big men than DB's, simply because there so many more of the latter. Simple math.

Not saying that losing Gilmore wouldn't hurt. He's been one of Bills best FA signings, but numbers don't lie.

The numbers indicate that an elite DB is much more valuable than an elite DL. That's really my point. It's about positional value.

Elite coverage is the 2nd most important trait for a football team behind the QB play.

There is a reason BB pays McCourty, Gilmore and not Flowers and drafts a DB regulary early to increase his chances of more elite DB play.

To find an Aaron Donald is harder, yes I'm not arguing it but Gilmore offers more value and WAR.

The Pats started winning Super Bowls again once we had multiple elite DBs.
2014 Revis, McCourty
2016 Butler, McCourty
2018 Gilmore, McCourty, McCourty

 

[TomPatriot]

I wonder if the pats have potential undrafted players on their board? To call after the draft is over, or would they just be on the original list? After all, they always seem to have one make the team, and contribute.

Every year they have a list of potential UDFAs predraft.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Every year they have a list of potential UDFAs predraft.

Good enough to be on the team, but not good enough for any team to expend draft capital on them. I think that just shows the imperfect science of drafting....and that there isn’t a quantifiable measure of heart, desire and determination.