Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[PatsWSB47]

So when the Florida department of health made a complaint to the PD reporting things such as girls sleeping in the brothel on massage tables, poor hygiene and eating facilities for them , semen in the garbage, etc what would you have wanted the PD to do?

The only thing they could do......watch and record them having sex with customers for a month. And then after finding no evidence to make trafficking arrests, hold a press conference inferring that the workers were victims held there weeks on end in these horrid conditions. Then of course arrest at least some of the victims they inferred were living in those conditions.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, because I believe he actually did it.
Just because something couldn’t be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in court doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And while evidence being excluded from trial means it can’t be used at trial, it doesn’t mean the evidence doesn’t exist and what it documents didn’t happen.

Thats fine if you have confidence in the NFL conducting a thorough investigation, is un-biased, objective and being consistent in how it administers punishment.

I'd rather have them look to the legal system to conduct the investigation and use their opinion on the matter as guidance.

I like how they are handling the Tyreek Hill issue. They are waiting for CPS finishes their investigation of the matter and will base their position on their findings and action.

 

[Soliel]

If the case is thrown out do you think Kraft should still be punished?

No, he should not be punished if the case gets yanked because Florida cops screwed up some how. Goodell will still do that though

 

[Ring 6]

The only thing they could do......watch and record them having sex with customers for a month. And then after finding no evidence to make trafficking arrests, hold a press conference inferring that the workers were victims held there weeks on end in these horrid conditions. Then of course arrest at least some of the victims they inferred were living in those conditions.

That’s what you think they should have done? Wow.

 

[Soliel]

That’s what you think they should have done? Wow.

That’s just it. The second this came out, I knew that something was not right. In fact, I wouldn’t even believe it. I’m resigned now to whatever happens but I will most likely never agree with this type of stunt

 

[Ring 6]

No, he should not be punished if the case gets yanked because Florida cops screwed up some how. Goodell will still do that though

Whether the cops screwed up or not has nothing to do with whether he committed the crime, only with whether there is sufficient proof to convict.
Put it another way. If Aaron Hernandez had walked on a technicality should the league have taken no disciplinary action?

My answer is the league shouldn’t be disciplining criminal behavior to begin with but based upon how they have decided to handle it of course they would discipline harnandez.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s just it. The second this came out, I knew that something was not right. In fact, I wouldn’t even believe it. I’m resigned now to whatever happens but I will most likely never agree with this type of stunt

I have no idea what you are trying to say.
How could you know the second kraft got arrested that something wasn’t right?
Are you honestly holding to the belief that he did nothing wrong and got set up?

 

[goheels22002]

If the case is thrown out do you think Kraft should still be punished?

Absolutely. Kraft is an embarrassment to the league, the Patriots, and himself. The man has more options than anyone on this messageboard when it comes to sexual activity. He took the most expedient and least discrete route possible (on his way to the AFC championship game) to satisfy his appetite.

Further, having his lawyers go after law enforcement to make Bobby the victim just makes this worse. The men and women in the Sheriff's departments in Florida put their lives on the line every day when they buckle up their holsters and head out the door to work. Demonizing them for his choice to solicit prostitution in a state where it is illegal is a legal ploy to get out of taking the misdemeanor deal on the table, and makes matters worse.

By insisting on a jury trial, this thing becomes a cheesy spectacle for months while his lawyers try to prove how clever they are while collecting huge fees over a second-rate misdemeanor that was avoidable in the first place.

Bobby's poor decision making is proof that he's unfit to run the Patriots any longer. He should step down, hand the reins to Jonathan, and stay as far in the background as possible.

 

[Soliel]

Whether the cops screwed up or not has nothing to do with whether he committed the crime, only with whether there is sufficient proof to convict.
Put it another way. If Aaron Hernandez had walked on a technicality should the league have taken no disciplinary action?

My answer is the league shouldn’t be disciplining criminal behavior to begin with but based upon how they have decided to handle it of course they would discipline harnandez.

That’s a tough one bro. I’m just going to answer honestly and say: no, I couldn’t agree with someone obviously guilty getting off on a tech thing. So, if I apply that across the spectrum. I’d have to not like anyone getting away with anything.

 

[Digit]

Going after them for trying to go after him for prostitution isn't the problem - the problem is that the police framed the situation as -human trafficking-.

After months of public raking, all the police has is 'solicitation', and that based on what was portrayed to the judge as 'human trafficking'. In other words, the police -exceeded- their scope by a great amount.

So Kraft is, in my opinion, within his rights to go after them for basically trying to frame this as a human trafficking situation, and the police will have earned the scrunity for it (and trying to frame this as a 'putting their lives on line' situation is idiotic. They were doing surveillance and what might have been illegal recording. If it were dangerous, _SOMEONE_ would have been charged with human trafficking. There were no such charges in this bust, no matter how the police chief keeps trying to say they just haven't found the evidence yet...)

Punish him, yes. Punish him in proportion with what he -did- instead of what the police claims he did.

 

[Soliel]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.
How could you know the second kraft got arrested that something wasn’t right?
Are you honestly holding to the belief that he did nothing wrong and got set up?

No, I’m not holding to that. I’d like to hold to it but can not see a way where your being honest with yourself in doing so.

To address your first question, I knew because it is not like it’s been happening previously. Things don’t just happen in a vacuum

 

[LJRomanoff]

I see your point. I also should have said that I don’t think Kraft should escape punishment by the NFL. Whatever Irsay received or even a little more than that would be appropriate. Nothing that impacts the team on the field should be in play.

You think MORE punishment than Irsay received is appropriate? How?

 

[Ring 6]

No, I’m not holding to that. I’d like to hold to it but can not see a way where your being honest with yourself in doing so.

To address your first question, I knew because it is not like it’s been happening previously. Things don’t just happen in a vacuum

What hasn’t been happening previously? Kraft going to hookers? How would you know?

 

[PatsWSB47]

That’s what you think they should have done? Wow.

I was being sarcastic. Seriously if they had reports that the conditions were that bad then a raid would have might been a lot more effective of a rescue of these victims than recording them having sex for a month.

 

[Ring 6]

Thats fine if you have confidence in the NFL conducting a thorough investigation, is un-biased, objective and being consistent in how it administers punishment.

I'd rather have them look to the legal system to conduct the investigation and use their opinion on the matter as guidance.

I like how they are handling the Tyreek Hill issue. They are waiting for CPS finishes their investigation of the matter and will base their position on their findings and action.

IF that action make the NFL look like they are on the side of whatever group would otherwise protest or boycott them.
If it’s lenient and gets criticized publicly then the nfl will go hard on penalties and call it supporting battered women and children.

 

[Ring 6]

I was being sarcastic. Seriously if they had reports that the conditions were that bad then a raid would have might been a lot more effective of a rescue of these victims than recording them having sex for a month.

Do we know they recorded for a month? That was the limit the court gave them.

The stated rationale from
LE was that they have done things like that before and it just causes the problem to move to another location so they did what they did to get a better result.

I think it’s disingenuous to judge the investigative plan in hindsight. Everyone involved is saying they believed there was trafficking so it’s hard for me to say the plan sucked because the assumptions proved wrong.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Absolutely. Kraft is an embarrassment to the league, the Patriots, and himself. The man has more options than anyone on this messageboard when it comes to sexual activity. He took the most expedient and least discrete route possible (on his way to the AFC championship game) to satisfy his appetite.

Further, having his lawyers go after law enforcement to make Bobby the victim just makes this worse. The men and women in the Sheriff's departments in Florida put their lives on the line every day when they buckle up their holsters and head out the door to work. Demonizing them for his choice to solicit prostitution in a state where it is illegal is a legal ploy to get out of taking the misdemeanor deal on the table, and makes matters worse.

By insisting on a jury trial, this thing becomes a cheesy spectacle for months while his lawyers try to prove how clever they are while collecting huge fees over a second-rate misdemeanor that was avoidable in the first place.

Bobby's poor decision making is proof that he's unfit to run the Patriots any longer. He should step down, hand the reins to Jonathan, and stay as far in the background as possible.

Getting a hummer from a spa does not prove he is unfit to own the Patriots.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Do we know they recorded for a month? That was the limit the court gave them.

The stated rationale from
LE was that they have done things like that before and it just causes the problem to move to another location so they did what they did to get a better result.

I think it’s disingenuous to judge the investigative plan in hindsight. Everyone involved is saying they believed there was trafficking so it’s hard for me to say the plan sucked because the assumptions proved wrong.

Well he gave them a month to watch the sex acts so I question the wisdom in that considering the conditions you laid out. The idea that victims being allowed to be recorded by a judge being trafficked and living under those conditions doesn't even make you bat an eye does it? Anyway if you're too dug in to even consider that could have been wrong then I'm done here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IF that action make the NFL look like they are on the side of whatever group would otherwise protest or boycott them.
If it’s lenient and gets criticized publicly then the nfl will go hard on penalties and call it supporting battered women and children.

See, I think by deferring to the judicial systems to determine guilt or innocence is THE way to stay out of the cross hairs of these groups.

If said groups start to speak up, all Goody needs to do is defer to law enforcement and our legal system to determine guilt of innocence.

If Goody wants to get out of the business of being a social justice warrior and the moral compass of the universe this is the policy to have.

 

[maust]

Getting a hummer from a spa does not prove he is unfit to own the Patriots.

Always tough to accept when our erstwhile heroes turn out to have feet of clay. Whether it was not adequately supporting Brady or this all too human debacle, Krafty Bob is just a man after all. But he is still the man who kept Otis Orthwein from carpetbagging our team and laid the foundation for all we've enjoyed since, nothing changes that.