Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[venecol]

Amended motion for protective order on videos. Basically claiming videos were illegally obtained (right to privacy) and for protection of a fair trial. @QuantumMechanic

 

[Ring 6]

Public Service Reminder:

This is about two alleged handjobs that happened behind closed doors on a high profile suspect, it is not a federal case, I come from a strong belief that what happens behind closed doors of consenting adults is a private matter.. if there was evidence of coercion or trafficking would feel different, but this is not as big a deal as the world wants it to be.

Then there are the pundits who want to somehow link this to "cameragate" and "deflategate", which is complete and utter bullsh...t.

The Police and AG have completely mismanaged this case from the onset they used a lot of resources to accomplish what they did, and continue to use them while I am certain there are bigger crimes they need to prosecute.. their effort to try this misdemeanor case in the media is about as limp dycked as it gets..

So when the Florida department of health made a complaint to the PD reporting things such as girls sleeping in the brothel on massage tables, poor hygiene and eating facilities for them , semen in the garbage, etc what would you have wanted the PD to do?

 

[Captain Cliche]

I'd have a little more sympathy for Bend over Bob if he didn't let Brady twist in the breeze while he was yuckin' it up with goodell.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Who is a bigger scum bag? The media for trying to get the tapes and make them public? The police for using hidden cameras in the first place when they could have busted the operation without them? Or Bob Kraft for frequenting this type of place? There is scum sucking for everyone!

 

[Soliel]

the Case is a convolluted nightmare. Too many questions. All my concerns won’t matter in the end. Kraft either solicited or not. The law is not ambiguous.

As much as I may hate it that kraft would do something this dumb. You can’t fix stupid and it’s impossible to fix stupid drunks with too much money

 

[RobertWeathers]

Who is a bigger scum bag? The media for trying to get the tapes and make them public? The police for using hidden cameras in the first place when they could have busted the operation without them? Or Bob Kraft for frequenting this type of place? There is scum sucking for everyone!

No one looks good here.

 

[venecol]

I'm getting the sense that while everyone is focused on the video, the real elephant in the room is the human trafficking narrative. Sure getting the video squashed is a goal but everyone pretty much knows what happened in those rooms based on the very detailed narrative. Like the Sheriff said, there's nothing to see, its ugly.

Had it not been for the way the SA and cops announced the arrests and charges, all centered around this massive international human trafficking operation, I doubt this story would have lasted a couple of news cycles.

It is the whole human trafficking angle that has made this a huge problem for Kraft. His defense team is viciously going after the cops and SA on this item, debunking the whole story line to force them to admit there was no human trafficking at all. Without human trafficking this becomes a simple solicitation misdemeanor (it already is but with a cloud).

As such, Goodell will have a tough time going crazy with punishments over a misdemeanor that typically doesn't even call for jail time even if found guilty. I'm not sure the NFL wants to get into a discussion over validity of paying for consensual sex when they are vigorously trying to get a team moved to Nevada.

 

[Koma]

As such, Goodell will have a tough time going crazy with punishments over a misdemeanor that typically doesn't even call for jail time even if found guilty. I'm not sure the NFL wants to get into a discussion over validity of paying for consensual sex when they are vigorously trying to get a team moved to Nevada.

Never underestimate Goodell's ability to go overboard when it comes to punishing the Patriots. It doesn't matter what the past precedent was or how future situations will be handled. He has shown that he ignore everything else when it comes to coming up with the harshest penalty possible for New England.

As an aside, it's absolutely insane that people actually believe that Goodell has somehow gone easy on the Patriots.

 

[XLIX]

the Case is a convolluted nightmare. Too many questions. All my concerns won’t matter in the end. Kraft either solicited or not. The law is not ambiguous.

The law, my friend, is very ambiguous. That's why we have judges and courtrooms but, of course, even they are not of one mind on most matters.

 

[venecol]

Never underestimate Goodell's ability to go overboard when it comes to punishing the Patriots. It doesn't matter what the past precedent was or how future situations will be handled. He has shown that he ignore everything else when it comes to coming up with the harshest penalty possible for New England.

As an aside, it's absolutely insane that people actually believe that Goodell has somehow gone easy on the Patriots.

I get that and agree but other posters have mentioned that no one has been punished for these types of charges in the past. I know that this is post- me too and all but this was consensual sex and I can't believe that "if it is proven that there was no human trafficking involved" that he could go crazy on the punishment.

I fully acknowledge Commissioner is not to be trusted and he can do whatever he wants.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I get that and agree but other posters have mentioned that no one has been punished for these types of charges in the past. I know that this is post- me too and all but this was consensual sex and I can't believe that "if it is proven that there was no human trafficking involved" that he could go crazy on the punishment.

I fully acknowledge Commissioner is not to be trusted and he can do whatever he wants.

I would be careful about calling prostitution consensual sex. Yes, the "service-er" is consenting to provide a service, but only under certain conditions and terms of a written/unwritten agreement.

 

[Koma]

Who is a bigger scum bag? The media for trying to get the tapes and make them public? The police for using hidden cameras in the first place when they could have busted the operation without them? Or Bob Kraft for frequenting this type of place? There is scum sucking for everyone!

Does anyone really want to see that video? I'm never going to watch it, so I thought of a way to get people to back off from wanting the video released. Please note, this is just wishful thinking and has no basis in reality:

Have Kraft release it on the condition that, for the people who have been pushing for it and have been vocal in the media about it (Deadspin, I'm looking at you), his spa videos must play like an ad for those people before they watch any other video, in perpetuity. You want to watch a new release on demand? A trailer for a new movie? A video on YouTube? A video from a friend's wedding or a family member's birthday? There's naked Bob Kraft. You wanted the video released so bad, you get to see every day, it all the time. Kraft could even hire Peter Jackson and his crew that colorized and enhanced the WWI footage for "They Shall Not Grow Old" to do the same for his video, so it looks and sounds as good as possible. Presented with that choice, I think people would be fine if the video was never released.

 

[Ring 6]

Does anyone really want to see that video? I'm never going to watch it, so I thought of a way to get people to back off from wanting the video released. Please note, this is just wishful thinking and has no basis in reality:

Have Kraft release it on the condition that, for the people who have been pushing for it and have been vocal in the media about it (Deadspin, I'm looking at you), his spa videos must play like an ad for those people before they watch any other video, in perpetuity. You want to watch a new release on demand? A trailer for a new movie? A video on YouTube? A video from a friend's wedding or a family member's birthday? There's naked Bob Kraft. You wanted the video released so bad, you get to see every day, it all the time. Kraft could even hire Peter Jackson and his crew that colorized and enhanced the WWI footage for "They Shall Not Grow Old" to do the same for his video, so it looks and sounds as good as possible. Presented with that choice, I think people would be fine if the video was never released.

I don’t like it either but the fight to have it released isn’t a fight to have it released it’s a fight to support the ability to obtain documents from the government.
No one fighting this (well mostly no one) wants to publish the video and are paying lawyers because the video is important. They are fighting the precedent and upholding the Florida sunshine laws that give them better access to reporting.

Ironically people who base their beliefs on a mistrust of the government are on the side of a ruling that will weaken the law that requires the government to be transparent.

 

[PatsDeb]

I don’t like it either but the fight to have it released isn’t a fight to have it released it’s a fight to support the ability to obtain documents from the government.
No one fighting this (well mostly no one) wants to publish the video and are paying lawyers because the video is important. They are fighting the precedent and upholding the Florida sunshine laws that give them better access to reporting.

Ironically people who base their beliefs on a mistrust of the government are on the side of a ruling that will weaken the law that requires the government to be transparent.

Say what now? It's the media fighting to get the video, and if you think they are doing it because they are pantheons of the law, I don't know what to say. They (and their advertisers) want the 6 million You Tube clicks it's likely to generate.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm getting the sense that while everyone is focused on the video, the real elephant in the room is the human trafficking narrative. Sure getting the video squashed is a goal but everyone pretty much knows what happened in those rooms based on the very detailed narrative. Like the Sheriff said, there's nothing to see, its ugly.

It appears that krafts attorneys are attempting to argue that the judge inappropriately issued a warrant that didn’t meet their version of the standards required for video surveillance. A lot of the rest is fluff but on a quick read it seems like that is their approach.
Remember just asking for the video to be inadmissible doesn’t really help because you still have eye witnesses.

Had it not been for the way the SA and cops announced the arrests and charges, all centered around this massive international human trafficking operation, I doubt this story would have lasted a couple of news cycles.

That’s irrelevant to the case but I doubt it. It’s in the news because bob kraft paid a hooker. If no one famous were involved it wouldn’t have stayed in the news.
Someone posted an article about an Ann Arbor bust of a trafficking ring and no one remembers that being in the news. The press conference wouldn’t have been covered nationally if kraft wasnt involved.

It is the whole human trafficking angle that has made this a huge problem for Kraft. His defense team is viciously going after the cops and SA on this item, debunking the whole story line to force them to admit there was no human trafficking at all. Without human trafficking this becomes a simple solicitation misdemeanor (it already is but with a cloud).

If his lawyers win their argument the “human trafficking thing” helped kraft.
I’m not sure I would call a brief filed vicious. They are just doing their job and arguing their viewpoint in the law.

As such, Goodell will have a tough time going crazy with punishments over a misdemeanor that typically doesn't even call for jail time even if found guilty. I'm not sure the NFL wants to get into a discussion over validity of paying for consensual sex when they are vigorously trying to get a team moved to Nevada.

It’s not a matter of consensual which is an odd description of prostitution, it’s a matter of breaking the law.
As we know there is no logic, common sense or reason in anything goodell does.
The closest thing to a standard is if someone does something that a group will protest about (peta, me too, etc) he will a) attempt to hide it or b) if a fails punish unmercifully.

 

[Ring 6]

Say what now? It's the media fighting to get the video, and if you think they are doing it because they are pantheons of the law, I don't know what to say. They (and their advertisers) want the 6 million You Tube clicks it's likely to generate.

Espn is one of the media outlets filing the suit.
There are many others that aren’t going to put it in you tube. (I don’t remember the list but there are many legitimate news organizations signed in to it) and they are not fighting for the sake of this video but the precedent it sets for media access and reporters rights to get government information.

 

[Koma]

I get that and agree but other posters have mentioned that no one has been punished for these types of charges in the past. I know that this is post- me too and all but this was consensual sex and I can't believe that "if it is proven that there was no human trafficking involved" that he could go crazy on the punishment.

I fully acknowledge Commissioner is not to be trusted and he can do whatever he wants.

I see your point. I also should have said that I don’t think Kraft should escape punishment by the NFL. Whatever Irsay received or even a little more than that would be appropriate. Nothing that impacts the team on the field should be in play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I see your point. I also should have said that I don’t think Kraft should escape punishment by the NFL. Whatever Irsay received or even a little more than that would be appropriate. Nothing that impacts the team on the field should be in play.

If the case is thrown out do you think Kraft should still be punished?

 

[PatsDeb]

Espn is one of the media outlets filing the suit.
There are many others that aren’t going to put it in you tube. (I don’t remember the list but there are many legitimate news organizations signed in to it) and they are not fighting for the sake of this video but the precedent it sets for media access and reporters rights to get government information.

Uh huh. Color me skeptical.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If the case is thrown out do you think Kraft should still be punished?

Yes, because I believe he actually did it.
Just because something couldn’t be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in court doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And while evidence being excluded from trial means it can’t be used at trial, it doesn’t mean the evidence doesn’t exist and what it documents didn’t happen.