Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[zipster9]

I honestly don't know what he is talking about because he doesn't say anything.

I can easily interpret what he said as: he is sorry that in the process of having consensual sex he got caught in this ridicuoulus illegal operation and thus embarrassed himself and everyone he loves and this is not in keeping with his sense of a higher standard.

Now if he would have said: I'm truly sorry for soliciting a prostitute for sex but I'm lonely or whatever, then it would be clear he was admitting to something.

Without JOHNs there is no prostitution and no human trafficking... That is the point. You have no consumers for a merchandise... By him "attending" he is indirectly promoting this.

Also, if he is sorry now, that is because he could not get the video tapes to be kept private.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, another stipulated FACT of the case that reeks of a fake investigation that should have ended after an hour.

Let’s pursue that thought.

How many girls worked in the spa?
Were they not allowed to leave?
Did they sleep on the massage tables?
How did they get there?
Were they willing sex workers or were they doing it against their will?
What was the role of krafts ladies? Were they the madams?
Where did they get their employees from?
What percentage of patrons received sex acts?
Did all of the employees provide sex?
Who got paid what?
Could the employees leave?

Without knowing the answers to those questions and then pursuing the troubling ones and following the trail how can you conclude the investigation in an hour?

But I do not k is the answer to any of those questions and I imagine you do not either.
If you don’t m, how do you conclude there was no trafficking and it was known within an hour?

 

[Ring 6]

Without JOHNs there is no prostitution and no human trafficking... That is the point. You have no consumers for a merchandise... By him "attending" he is indirectly promoting this.

Also, if he is sorry now, that is because he could not get the video tapes to be kept private.

You are wasting your time. Kraft could come out and admit to having 365 prostitutes housed in his properties and have one blowing him while he made the statement and that poster would tell you he was just kidding around.

 

[Ring 6]

Legitimately sorry to hear about your back problems @AndyJohnson . Back issues SUCK. Hope you get well soon.

Thanks. I don’t have bad issues I just tweak it maybe every 12-24 months but when it happens it’s a *****.

 

[venecol]

They are pretty identical with the exception of fla chose to arrest the Johns and Ann Arbor chose not to

They are not identical at all, only in the claim they were both after human trafficking.

Ann Arbor: nabbed traffickers convicting them of federal crimes. No charges against sex workers or johns (not focus of investigation). No videos required.

Martin/Jupiter: no one is being charged with trafficking or federal charges. Nabbed sex workers and johns on misdemeanor prostitution (even though not focus of investigation). Videos required to charge.

Ann Arbor was a success, Florida a complete and utter failure to the point SA is willing to drop all charges. Lmao, what a fiasco. Truly embarrassing. It's not over either.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't see anyone defending Kraft but the possible violations of 4th amendment rights. Everyone agrees he went to the spa to get a happy ending. We all know that is illegal. NFL can suspend Kraft for all I care. F***k him.

I have a major problem with the way LE went about gathering the evidence, using a warrant used for terrorism to bust a bunch of johns getting massages is not the reason we all gave up on some of our rights in passing the Patriot Act.

A warrant for terrorism WTF are you talking about.

Law enforcement suspected human trafficking for the purpose of prostitution.
Consistent with the 4th amendment they went to the judiciary to obtain permission for search and seizure specifying exactly what constituted probable cause and what type of search and seizure they would pursue. The court authorized the search and seizure.

How is that in violation of the 4th amendment and the approved and accepted standards and case history of compliance with the 4th amendment?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let’s pursue that thought.

How many girls worked in the spa?
Were they not allowed to leave?
Did they sleep on the massage tables?
How did they get there?
Were they willing sex workers or were they doing it against their will?
What was the role of krafts ladies? Were they the madams?
Where did they get their employees from?
What percentage of patrons received sex acts?
Did all of the employees provide sex?
Who got paid what?
Could the employees leave?

Without knowing the answers to those questions and then pursuing the troubling ones and following the trail how can you conclude the investigation in an hour?

But I do not k is the answer to any of those questions and I imagine you do not either.
If you don’t m, how do you conclude there was no trafficking and it was known within an hour?

Strange you would bypass using a camera with audio along with video to figure out these complexities, isn’t it? And allow them continue being abused over such a long time period. And not bring in Kraft for questioning about actual trafficking, since he is a billionaire businessman who goes to that spa. Nope, just ID him in a tricky way and move on.

But I’m sure your another who wouldn’t care if your own daughter, wife, or mother also visited Orchids in January, taken off her clothes for a legitimate massage, and been watched by a bunch of police offers for a investigation that went on for months despite not actually bearing arrests for trafficking.

You go ahead and rail about a consensual HJ between unenslaved adults while others will worry about the massive issue of police sureveillance power and its potential abuse, which included misusing and abusing a warrant. I care about my privacy more than BK’s HJ.

 

[Ring 6]

They are not identical at all, only in the claim they were both after human trafficking.

Ann Arbor: nabbed traffickers convicting them of federal crimes. No charges against sex workers or johns (not focus of investigation). No videos required.

Martin/Jupiter: no one is being charged with trafficking or federal charges. Nabbed sex workers and johns on misdemeanor prostitution (even though not focus of investigation). Videos required to charge.

Ann Arbor was a success, Florida a complete and utter failure to the point SA is willing to drop all charges. Lmao, what a fiasco. Truly embarrassing. It's not over either.

Ann Arbor is complete. Florida is not. The broader Florida probe has made trafficking arrests by the way and we are yet to know how they are related.
You are comparing the full completed Ann Arbor case with the beginning of the Florida case, so at this stage, yes the only difference is the choice of prosecuting Johns which is pretty irrelevant.

 

[venecol]

Without JOHNs there is no prostitution and no human trafficking... That is the point. You have no consumers for a merchandise... By him "attending" he is indirectly promoting this.

Also, if he is sorry now, that is because he could not get the video tapes to be kept private.

Nah, I agree with another poster that this statement is there so others at the Owners meetings can refer to it when asked by the press. This is all very calculated.

A judge has yet to rule on the motion concerning the videos, so we just don't know yet.

 

[Ring 6]

Strange you would bypass using a camera with audio along with video to figure out these complexities, isn’t it? And allow them continue being abused over such a long time period.

Do you know whether there was audio or not?
And if there wasn’t what would that prove?
The warrant was reportedly for 30 days. We k is absolutely nothing about what transpired during those 30 days or for how many of them the tape was on. We only know for certain it was 2 days
Can we limit the discussion to things we know rather than diverting off to what something we make up might mean if it were true?

But I’m sure your another who wouldn’t care if your own daughter, wife, or mother also visited Orchids in January, taken off her clothes for a legitimate massage, and been watched by a bunch of police offers for a investigation that went on for months despite not actually bearing arrests for trafficking.

Why the f#ck would you make a comment about how I would feel if something happened to my family. That is uncalled for and a total
**** move.

But my daughter wife or mother would not visit a brothel.
You seem to not understand that this occurred because there was a criminal enterprise operating.

Interesting that you not only don’t answer any of my questions but also don’t acknowledge that not being able to means you lack the vast majority of fact necessary to draw the conclusion you are so confident in.

 

[venecol]

A warrant for terrorism WTF are you talking about.

Law enforcement suspected human trafficking for the purpose of prostitution.
Consistent with the 4th amendment they went to the judiciary to obtain permission for search and seizure specifying exactly what constituted probable cause and what type of search and seizure they would pursue. The court authorized the search and seizure.

How is that in violation of the 4th amendment and the approved and accepted standards and case history of compliance with the 4th amendment?

Ok I thought you knew what you were talking about but you clearly don't.

Early on in this story it came out that the particular warrant they obtained is allowed by the Patriot Act for anti-terrorist investigations. If you didn't know that there is no sense in continuing.

 

[venecol]

Ann Arbor is complete. Florida is not. The broader Florida probe has made trafficking arrests by the way and we are yet to know how they are related.
You are comparing the full completed Ann Arbor case with the beginning of the Florida case, so at this stage, yes the only difference is the choice of prosecuting Johns which is pretty irrelevant.

Come on man, the SA in Palm Beach has already come out and said there aren't any human trafficking charges. WTF man if you aren't keeping up with the news please stop commenting.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Do you know whether there was audio or not?
And if there wasn’t what would that prove?
The warrant was reportedly for 30 days. We k is absolutely nothing about what transpired during those 30 days or for how many of them the tape was on. We only know for certain it was 2 days
Can we limit the discussion to things we know rather than diverting off to what something we make up might mean if it were true?


Why the f#ck would you make a comment about how I would feel if something happened to my family. That is uncalled for and a total
**** move.

But my daughter wife or mother would not visit a brothel.
You seem to not understand that this occurred because there was a criminal enterprise operating.

Interesting that you not only don’t answer any of my questions but also don’t acknowledge that not being able to means you lack the vast majority of fact necessary to draw the conclusion you are so confident in.

D1ck move? Entire purpose of privacy discussion is about our thoughts in trading privacy/surveillance for potential reduction in crime. Question 100% legit. I guess you don’t have a good answer for it then? I’d be furious. The spa is not a brothel even though prostitution occurred there. Awesome logical fallacy again. Someone you know could have gone there for a legit massage, taken off all their clothes and been ogled by officers. Why do you think these warrants are needed to begin with? People’s privacy needs to be a big consideration. That naked people are being a watched is a “h0ly ****” idea.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok I thought you knew what you were talking about but you clearly don't.

Early on in this story it came out that the particular warrant they obtained is allowed by the Patriot Act for anti-terrorist investigations. If you didn't know that there is no sense in continuing.

You either made that up or are misrepresenting it.
Show a link.

 

[venecol]

You either made that up or are misrepresenting it.
Show a link.

I will.

 

[Ring 6]

D1ck move? Entire purpose of privacy discussion is about our thoughts in trading privacy/surveillance for potential reduction in crime. Question 100% legit. I guess you don’t have a good answer for it then? I’d be furious. The spa is not a brothel even though prostitution occurred there. Awesome logical fallacy again.

It was a low class comment. And it wasn’t a privacy discussion it was you accusing me of not caring about my family then placing them in a brothel. Be better than that
I answered.
I live in America where there are laws and procedures for law enforcement to protect ME from criminals. Where a crime is reasonably expected to be occurring our system allows law enforcement to request the right to search and seizure. I value being protected from crime more than I worry who is looking if I stumble into a location being investigated.
You sound like the police are taking the tapes home to show their buddies. That would be a crime.
Do you flip out that you daughters doctor sees her naked?

 

[Ring 6]

Come on man, the SA in Palm Beach has already come out and said there aren't any human trafficking charges. WTF man if you aren't keeping up with the news please stop commenting.

They have not said the trafficking investigation is over and produced nothing.
That’s simply not true.

 

[venecol]

They have not said the trafficking investigation is over and produced nothing.
That’s simply not true.

In Palm Beach it is, absolutely.

 

[Ring 6]

In Palm Beach it is, absolutely.

Again show me where that was announced.
And “TMZ has heard” doesn’t cut it.

 

[XLIX]

Enjoy. It was awesome. Where are you seeing it? I am close to SF and it’s here for about six months.

I will be seeing it in Dallas.

Not true. Case is still very much open. Kraft (spelling corrected) is still very much innocent until proven guilty.

Sorry,
America

Unless the prosecutors are lying about the videotape (incredibly unlikely considering the nature of this case), then he has been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to any clear thinking individual.

You should admit your wrong because you are actually wrong. This is not Venezuela

Here's the #1 thing people just don't understand about the law. It is nowhere near as black and white as people like to think it is and oftentimes it simply comes down to the luck of the draw. Just look at Brady's deflategate case. He had 4 judges rule on it in the 2nd Circuit. 2 ruled for Brady, 2 ruled for the NFL. Unfortunately, of the 3 in the higher court, 2 were for the NFL and 1 for Brady. But I guarantee you that if the luck of the draw went differently, Brady would have won.

The same can be expected of this case. Kraft's lawyers are trying to get the video evidence thrown out. I guarantee you there will be some judges who say it should be and some who say it shouldn't. So Kraft is subject to the luck of the draw regarding the judge assigned to his trial (if it gets that far).