Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[DarrylS]

Do a little more research. Authorities have announced a couple of weeks they’re no longer pursuing human trafficking in the case.

Ago??

Do you have a source for your contention???

Why would they not pursue the human trafficking?? It seemed to make quite a splash when they announced the living conditions, the woman were here illegally and apparently held against their will..

My contention in this case is very simple, law enforcement knew about his case about 6 months ago, why didn't they act sooner to avoid further exploitation of these women?? If the reason was to enforce the law and protect these women they had enough information a while ago..

 

[DarrylS]

Please stop with the false sex slave narrative!

It has been admitted by police that they made up the human trafficking angle to get warrants to video tape. Why are you perpetuating this when it never happened?

Take a deep breath and read what I said... if police did admit what you contend it would be very likely that the evidence they gathered would be thrown out of court and none of these cases could proceed.

Do you have a source where they said this???

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Also there is the possibility of jail time if it goes to trial.

Ok, so for the people who clicked “disagree” with this, what part of “possibility” do you not understand? Florida law allows the judge to impose a 60 day jail sentence for solicitation. Kraft going to jail might be a remote possibility (5% chance) but a possibility nonetheless. My goodness, please learn to read.

 

[letekro]

The police don’t make the laws and certainly shouldn’t be choosing which ones they enforce. And definitely not based on someone’s moral beliefs about the crime in question.

Police and prosecutors don’t exercise discretion on which laws to enforce and which violations to prosecute? That’s virtually all they do. Discretion is mandated by limited resources but also by the importance of police/community relations. You’ve never gotten a break on a speeding ticket?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Take a deep breath and read what I said... if police did admit what you contend it would be very likely that the evidence they gathered would be thrown out of court and none of these cases could proceed.

Do you have a source where they said this???

They may not have admitted it but but no one is investigating human trafficking regarding this case yet your post linked the spa to human trafficking

Why did you post that?

If there was zero evidence of trafficking, why did police initially say they were pursuing that angle? Maybe because that’s the only way to video taping authorized by a judge?

TMZ: Suspects from Spa in Robert Kraft Case Not Charged with Sex Trafficking

 

[Ring 6]

Does anyone familiar with Florida evidence law know whether the prosecution can bring in evidence of the other Johns into Kraft’s trial? My guess is no, but if so, his defense that “she just really liked him” might go out the window...I mean the guy went into the spa twice and received the same treatment. Kind of hard to argue that no money was exchanged for sex acts.

That’s not a real potential defense.

 

[PatriotsReign]

“While the prostitution sting was said to be part of a crackdown on human and sex trafficking, TMZ Sports reported that nothing has turned up in that regard five months into the investigation. Also, the FBI and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) opted against getting involved in the investigation because of a lack of evidence.”

 

[Ring 6]

Do a little more research. Authorities have announced a couple of weeks they’re no longer pursuing human trafficking in the case.

You said google it and that’s proof. I googled it and found the first article to say they have actually arrested a suspect on RICO charged related to trafficking.
I’m not sure how you can have a valid source that says they aren’t pursuing it when they are literally prosecuting someone.

 

[Ring 6]

“While the prostitution sting was said to be part of a crackdown on human and sex trafficking, TMZ Sports reported that nothing has turned up in that regard five months into the investigation. Also, the FBI and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) opted against getting involved in the investigation because of a lack of evidence.”

Seriously? TMZ?
Get some sleep.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That’s not a real potential defense.

It’s not a very good one, but people here seem to think it is.

 

[Ring 6]

Police and prosecutors don’t exercise discretion on which laws to enforce and which violations to prosecute?

No they most certainly should not.

That’s virtually all they do. Discretion is mandated by limited resources but also by the importance of police/community relations. You’ve never gotten a break on a speeding ticket?

Are you seriously arguing that police choose to not enforce speeding while every day I see multiple people pulled over getting tickets?

 

[Froob]

Set up how?

He willingly went to a massage parlor and paid for sex. Twice.

How can that be set up?
Sounds like you feel bad for him and want to create excuses.

I really hope the Dorito Dinks are somehow involved in this alleged setup.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s not a very good one, but people here seem to think it is.

When you use the bold credibility is shaky at best.

 

[Ring 6]

I really hope the Dorito Dinks are somehow involved in this alleged setup.

Too funny.
Brady set him up as retribution for abandoning him in deflategate lol.

 

[Antdawg]

Fact is that solicitation *is* a crime in Florida.

And I got some news for you: if the prosecution has the video evidence they claim they have, they aren’t the ones who are going to be embarrassed here.

I promise you I am not an "expert" in this area, but isn't one of the attractions of a rub and tug shop like this one that you can walk in and it's already implied that sexual activity will occur if you pay the standard "fee" up front? Part of the allure is that you don't have to go and ask for what you want, it's already understood when you walk in the door. Which removes the "solicitation" component, thus making it a risk-free endeavor for the would be john unless he's actually dumb enough to talk about it and be recorded talking about it.

In other words, Kraft didn't need to "solicit" anything. Thus no crime occurred. Paying for sex isn't the charge here. The charge is that he solicited sexual favors in exchange for cash. And to me, that is where the problem lies for the state, unless they have audio of him doing this. You're correct, the criminal charge is "solicitation". Which implies Bob Kraft ASKED for sexual favors rendered in exchange for cash. However, if the video has no audio, then it really can't be proven he did this and the fact is most likely he did not.

 

[XLIX]

It is a crime, and so are thousands of other things that police devote zero resources to and prosecutors elect not to prosecute. Vice crimes have long been policed and prosecuted in Palm Beach county because of right-wing religious zealotry in those two bureaucracies. In my opinion, it is a poor use of those resources and unnecessarily harms consenting adults making a mutually beneficial business transaction.

This is nothing more than an opinion which has no bearing on the case here.

And, there is a long, long, long list of local yokel cops and prosecutors who thought they had an air tight case only to lose not only the case, but their credibility and in some cases, their careers, when faced with brilliant lawyers backed by unlimited resources.

And there’s a long, long, long list of brilliant lawyers losing to local yokels who had the facts and evidence on their side.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Seriously? TMZ?
Get some sleep.

It’s TMZ but it’s 100% accurate. No human trafficking is being investigated any longer.

Do you have anything to counter this fact or do you prefer to attack the source?

 

[venecol]

Even though I have been talking about ways that Kraft can "get off" or try to get a lesser punishment (can't resist talking about lawyering), I don't agree with the sentiments in this thread that prostitution or porn should be legalized or allowed to run rampant in society. The fact is that unlike the men who are into these things for the fun and games, a lot of the women and girls involved in these things are there because they have to be. Lots of them are exploited runaways or poor people with no where else to go and no other way to earn money than to sell their bodies (things we were led to believe at the start of the Kraft case of the workers at the spa where this happened - we haven't heard much about these women since the early days of the case) who are horribly abused by the "system" they find themselves in. I applaud the groups trying to help them. I have no problem with the public shaming of Kraft and other guys like him. He and they should know better. I'm not some horrible prude, but my heart breaks for the women and girls caught up in these "industries" who don't want to be there. Imagine if your mother, sister or daughter worked at that place.

That's fine but the fact remains that prostitution continues even despite everything you've stated. Actually it is worse because none of the women that are being abused can call the cops for protection, why? because prostitution is illegal!

Nobody is helping these women, the ones being abused. It's just swept under the rug because it ain't stopping.

 

[1960Pats]

Absolutely. I was working (sort of) in the prosecutor's office in Miami at the time. The amount of second guessing about that case will probably never be surpassed.

Shouldn't the trial have occurred within the same system as the crime?

 

[XLIX]

I promise you I am not an "expert" in this area, but isn't one of the attractions of a rub and tug shop like this one that you can walk in and it's already implied that sexual activity will occur if you pay the standard "fee" up front? Part of the allure is that you don't have to go and ask for what you want, it's already understood when you walk in the door. Which removes the "solicitation" component, thus making it a risk-free endeavor for the would be john unless he's actually dumb enough to talk about it and be recorded talking about it.

In other words, Kraft didn't need to "solicit" anything. Thus no crime occurred. Paying for sex isn't the charge here. The charge is that he solicited sexual favors in exchange for cash. And to me, that is where the problem lies for the state, unless they have audio of him doing this. You're correct, the criminal charge is "solicitation". Which implies Bob Kraft ASKED for sexual favors rendered in exchange for cash. However, if the video has no audio, then it really can't be proven he did this and the fact is most likely he did not.

I’ve explained it to you many times already but it apparently hasn’t sunk in.

You are pathetically flailing about looking for some sort of technicality that doesn’t exist. The old “I paid for the message, the sex act was free!” defense is just not a winning one. It doesn’t fool anybody.

If the prosecution has the video they claim they do, then they can prove money changed hands and a sex act took place. You don’t need audio to put 2 and 2 together.