Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[PatriotsReign]

I think it's more accurate to say that Kraft unwittingly walked into an ongoing sting and became the poster child for the case. It's his own damn fault, though...

I have a feeling someone that knew about the sting lead Kraft to the spa. Sure, it’s his own fault though.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Please stop with the false sex slave narrative!

It has been admitted by police that they made up the human trafficking angle to get warrants to video tape. Why are you perpetuating this when it never happened?

I haven't heard this... can you point to the story because I could not find it through google. I can find stories about no arrests but no where there was an admission of making anything up.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I haven't heard this... can you point to the story because I could not find it through google. I can find stories about no arrests but no where there was an admission of making anything up.

Search Florida spa and sex trafficking. You’ll find that authorities are no longer pursuing that angle. That’s because they never were investigating sex trafficking!

But my main point was that it’s stupid to continue to tie this incident to sex trafficking as Darryl did since there was no sex trafficking

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Would you expect 77 year old man of privilege to be sentenced for a misdemeanor???

That is the furthest thing I see for him, unless he knew about the "sexual slavery", which at this time there is no indication of.

Darryl,
I was responding to an earlier post that suggested there wouldn't be endless appeals and Kraft could go to jail. My premise was that in the unlikely event that he was sentenced to jail, all the big legal guns would come out to prevent that from ever happening...
Irony is that Kraft suggested Brady give up the fight but we'll see if he wants to take a different approach when he himself is in the crosshairs....

 

[Ring 6]

Well you are just making things up.

You can’t deny wrongdoing if you get convicted of a crime.

Of course you can. But you certainly can’t if you plead guilty.

He won’t take the deal cause his lawyers are telling him he should not.

This is just not true. There are many reasons he wouldn’t take the deal even if his lawyers think it is his best choice legally.
1) public relations. Kraft rather pay a larger fine than be on record admitting guilt.
2) he may not do what his lawyers recommend
3) he may think the difference between the deal and the sentence if convicted is worth the risk despite a huh chance of losing
Those are just a few.

Great lawyers don’t just March you to the gallows. They minimize damage. If they don’t advise him to take the deal it’s cause they know they can beat it.

He isn’t going to the gallows. It’s a matter of a bigger fine or not.
To kraft minimizing damage is likely retaining deniability. Conviction is better than admission
There are many reasons that a) they advise him to not take a deal even if his chances of winning are small or b) he goes against their advice particularly for or reasons.
This isn’t a death penalty case.

As far as the audio goes, I did assume that he at least went through the charade of paying for a massage and then also got a happy ending but if he didn’t and just got a hand job then you are correct.

This is in the police report. The first time he got a long madsagecrhen a hand job. The second time a very short massage and a blue job. None of that has anything to do with audio being required for a judge or jury to conclude getting a hand job and blow job in a brothel and paying a couple hundred dollars twice, constitute proof of solicitation of prostitution.

He will still beat the wrap is my guess. Good lawyers can get you out of killing people ask Ray Lewis. Unless he was a total moron nothing will come of this. But feel free to think his 1500 dollar an hour lawyers are stumped.

So you think that no one with a good lawyer has ever been convicted of anything?
Lawyers don’t change facts and evidence. And yes when someone is on tape committing a crime lawyers cannot just magically get them off because of how much they are paid. This is why the largest value of a top lawyer is negotiation a good plea. Perry Mason was a tv show.

 

[Ring 6]

I seriously believe he was set up

Set up how?

He willingly went to a massage parlor and paid for sex. Twice.

How can that be set up?
Sounds like you feel bad for him and want to create excuses.

 

[letekro]

They are terrified of what Kraft’s lawyers will do to them in court. And they will deserve the embarrassment. Criminalizing sex between consenting adults is a disgusting and retrograde use of police and prosecutorial power.

 

[XLIX]

They are terrified of what Kraft’s lawyers will do to them in court. And they will deserve the embarrassment. Criminalizing sex between consenting adults is a disgusting and retrograde use of police and prosecutorial power.

Whether or not it *should* be a crime is another discussion. Fact is that solicitation *is* a crime in Florida.

And I got some news for you: if the prosecution has the video evidence they claim they have, they aren’t the ones who are going to be embarrassed here.

Some of you are just living in fantasyland. Nobody is “terrified” of Kraft’s lawyers.

 

[Triumph]

Even though I have been talking about ways that Kraft can "get off"

Yes you have.

 

[Ring 6]

They are terrified of what Kraft’s lawyers will do to them in court. And they will deserve the embarrassment. Criminalizing sex between consenting adults is a disgusting and retrograde use of police and prosecutorial power.

The police don’t make the laws and certainly shouldn’t be choosing which ones they enforce. And definitely not based on someone’s moral beliefs about the crime in question.

 

[Ring 6]

Search Florida spa and sex trafficking. You’ll find that authorities are no longer pursuing that angle. That’s because they never were investigating sex trafficking!

But my main point was that it’s stupid to continue to tie this incident to sex trafficking as Darryl did since there was no sex trafficking

Not so. This is the first article that came up which discusses RICO charges trafficking investigations.

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/c...tution-sting-tied-sex-trafficking/3173374002/

 

[tasmlab]

What do they make 77 year old billionaires do for community service? I can't imagine at his age they'd make him pick up garbage or something like that.

...and there's tons of ways a guy with his resources, knowledge, connections, etc., could provide more restitution to the community if that was the point. But the point is punitive and humiliation I guess.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Does anyone familiar with Florida evidence law know whether the prosecution can bring in evidence of the other Johns into Kraft’s trial? My guess is no, but if so, his defense that “she just really liked him” might go out the window...I mean the guy went into the spa twice and received the same treatment. Kind of hard to argue that no money was exchanged for sex acts.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Not so. This is the first article that came up which discusses RICO charges trafficking investigations.

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/c...tution-sting-tied-sex-trafficking/3173374002/

Do a little more research. Authorities have announced a couple of weeks they’re no longer pursuing human trafficking in the case.

 

[Triumph]

The National Center on Sexual Exploitation is an Anti-pornography group. These are some of their claimed victories:

• The hotel industry’s removal of on-demand pornography from the television offerings in guest rooms;
• Major changes to Google ads, GooglePlay, and YouTube;
• Resolutions declaring pornography a public health crisis passed in four states (with more to come);
• Disney’s removal of a sex trafficking scene in its Pirates of the Caribbean rides;
• Stopping a bill in New Hampshire that would have fully decriminalized prostitution;
• Ending the sale of pornography at U.S. Army and Air Force exchanges;
• Walmart’s removal of eroticized child nudity books from its online store;
• Marsh supermarkets removal of Cosmopolitan from checkout lanes in its more than 80 stores;
• Stopping mainstream hotels from hosting a sex industry expos;
• Working with major airlines to improve their policies prohibiting the viewing of pornography on planes.

Based on this the entire NFL should be dissolved or anyone else that watches porn. Lol

1 This debacle is in it's infant stages.
2 Kraft has not admitted guilt or has he been found guilty.
3 One does not need to suspend disbelief to imagine that other women's groups will join the fray should Kraft lose this battle.
4 The whole sleazy story is bad publicity and a major news story that's not going away. Every turn of events will be headline news smack dab in the metoo movement which will be a plank in this 2020 election.
5 A native American running for our highest office is from Massachusetts. Though she is from different tribe how long before she is forced to pick a side?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Set up how?

He willingly went to a massage parlor and paid for sex. Twice.

How can that be set up?
Sounds like you feel bad for him and want to create excuses.

Someone had to tell Kraft about the spa, that is a fact we can agree upon. He didn’t just stumble upon it.

 

[Tunescribe]

Not trying to make an argument or anything, but it is kinda funny when you realize that pornography is really just hookers on camera. We all look down on hookers, but porn is practically glorified. There is probably something to be said for whatever this group is doing.

I LOL'd at Cosmo being dropped by supermarkets though.

A good 50-percent (probably more) of sexually explicit video viewed via the Internet is uploaded from amateur enthusiasts.

 

[letekro]

Whether or not it *should* be a crime is another discussion. Fact is that solicitation *is* a crime in Florida.

And I got some news for you: if the prosecution has the video evidence they claim they have, they aren’t the ones who are going to be embarrassed here.

Some of you are just living in fantasyland. Nobody is “terrified” of Kraft’s lawyers.

It is a crime, and so are thousands of other things that police devote zero resources to and prosecutors elect not to prosecute. Vice crimes have long been policed and prosecuted in Palm Beach county because of right-wing religious zealotry in those two bureaucracies. In my opinion, it is a poor use of those resources and unnecessarily harms consenting adults making a mutually beneficial business transaction. And, there is a long, long, long list of local yokel cops and prosecutors who thought they had an air tight case only to lose not only the case, but their credibility and in some cases, their careers, when faced with brilliant lawyers backed by unlimited resources.

 

[Triumph]

Actually, if the police lied and abused their power in this investigation/trap, everyone is innocent

As long as their lawyers present this defense

Kraft was still at a massage parlor that is now shut down because of illegal activity.

Out of the 25 John's, Kraft was the Bob.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Do a little more research. Authorities have announced a couple of weeks they’re no longer pursuing human trafficking in the case.

...which explains why the FBI and DOJ chose not to get involved.