The 2019 defense > 2018?

[SammyBlueCat]

Hopefully all of them will listen to me.

 

[IllegalContact]

you can't simply pencil Pennel in as an upgrade

LB's still have the same issue in that they can't cover an RB to save their life

the defense has gotten older.......

you still need to draft a quality edge guy to help facilitate the release of clayborn

 

[mgteich]

By the time we reach the playoffs, I expect this year's defense to be better than last year. I expect us to add a DT this week to have the defense in place, ready to go, subject to draft improvements, and subject to injuries.

 

[hornetfb85]

I think Flowers is more important than you are giving him credit for. Still, is possible for us to have a better D, if the D-Line as a whole improves. Still would like to see an upgrade at LB too, someone who can't consistently cover RBs

Maybe i'm too optimistic, but I have some hope that a full off season with the Pats and BB that Obi M can maybe be a hybrid LB that could cover RB's. But that's just me hoping.

 

[Froob]

Quite possibly. Never know, JC Jackson could take a big step back or could be nailed with injuries but it looks really good.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Last year's defense was inconsistent, but they set a high bar in the modern passing era:

 

[SBLIII]

about the same unless they land at least 1 instant impact player at DE/DT. Then it could be improved.

 

[TomPatriot]

Schiano is the wild card, imho. We’ll see.

 

[mgteich]

Schiano is the wild card, imho. We’ll see.

I would also say that the starting DL is a question mark, given that ALL will be new players.
We now have Bennett, Pennell, ??? and ???

 

[TomPatriot]

I would also say that the starting DL is a question mark, given that ALL will be new players.
We now have Bennett, Pennell, ??? and ???

Guy, Wise, Butler?

But you’re right, we need at least one more.

 

[Todd Bradley]

They’re gonna be better, no doubt.

- JC Jackson has a second year in the system
- Duke Dawson hopefully plays and shows he was worth the draft spot he was taken
- Bentley returns
- Pennel is better than Brown
- Bennett can be just as good as Flowers
- Our entire secondary is the best in the league

And we still have the draft to improve even further...

 

[mgteich]

Guy, Wise, Butler?

But you’re right, we need at least one more.

If any of these is a starter, we are weaker at that position.

 

[BobDigital]

If any of these is a starter, we are weaker at that position.

I really see no issue with the DL.

2018:
DE: Flowers(70%), Wise, (41%), Clayborn (30.5%) Simon (18%)
DT: Guy (50%), Brown (44%), Butler (36%), Shelton (31%)
Davis had some snaps too but by the end of the year Simon had taken that spot.

They lost Flowers, Clayborn, Brown and Shelton so they need to replace those snaps. IMO Bennett can fill Flowers role well and be the leading DE and DL man on the team. He played 69% of the snaps last year and is use to carrying the load.

Flowers is a very good player but so is Bennett. As for losing Clayborn I honestly don't think they will miss him much. While I am not high on Simon by the end of the year he was clearly out playing him. Even if he regresses a little this year I still think they are better off with him than Clayborn. They will need to pick up another depth DE but it isn't a bad line up.

As for DT Shelton and Brown were merely run stuffers and frankly weren't that good at it. Shelton in particular was disappointing. IMO Butler is clearly a better player than both but simply has a different role. Guy was one of the better DTs in the NFL last year all things considering. Mike Pennel is a better big DT than either. They do need another big body but those can be had in the draft. IMO Pennell + JAG > Brown + Shelton. I'll already call it an upgrade.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think Flowers is more important than you are giving him credit for. Still, is possible for us to have a better D, if the D-Line as a whole improves. Still would like to see an upgrade at LB too, someone who can't consistently cover RBs

Like many before him, Flowers will be forgotten soon.

There will probably be an adjustment period with new players, but the Pats have always found someone to step up. Meanwhile, the Lions will be mediocre at best and will only be a matter of time until the media starts questioning Flowers contract.

Signing Flowers was a Hail Mary for Patricia and Flowers is going to have unfair expectations. But then again, what do you expect when someone is paid $18M a year?

 

[Flash]

Still need to draft a DE though. Bennett is a short-term solution and outside of him we don't really have a lot of talent there. We can try to find some under-the-radar players like John Simon and Wise but ultimately we need talent at that position, and despite letting both go both Chandler Jones and Trey Flowers were excellent DEs that played significant roles on the DL. Bennett is turning 34 this year, I am not comfortable going into next season with only Bennett as the elite DE on the team.

DT is less of a concern now with Pennel/Guy leading the way but it'd be good to find talent later in the draft.

 

[supafly]

If any of these is a starter, we are weaker at that position.

Why? Lawrence Guy started 15/16 regular season games and all 3 postseason games. I doubt his role is going to change in any way.

Deatrich Wise started 5 regular season games and one playoff game.

FWIW—They both started the Super Bowl.

 

[fnordcircle]

It's hard to not see the difference from 2017 to 2018 and wonder what part of that was Flores. It'll take a while before I'm on board with the idea that his departure isn't a big step back.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's hard to not see the difference from 2017 to 2018 and wonder what part of that was Flores. It'll take a while before I'm on board with the idea that his departure isn't a big step back.

Serious? Look at the personnel difference in roster and performance

Jason M
JC
Simon
Wise improved
JJ improved
Foghorn Clayborn provided decent pressure
Shelton was an upgrade over Branch in the fact he played well in playoffs
Roberts improved
KVN improved
High healthy
Gilly All Pro

Flo did a very good job and I think he was the reason for the improvement in some but there is no doubt 2018 D had better personnel than 2017 D

 

[mgteich]

It is well and good to promote Guy and Wise as solid starters, which is possible based on game planning and opponent.

My point is straightforward. Our starting DL for most of 2018 is ALL gone. We have made solid replacements for 2 of the 4. We HOPE that our new defensive coaching staff will bring the new defense to 2018 form.
=====
Tha being said, I believe that we'll sign another starting DL (or 2) within a week.

Why? Lawrence Guy started 15/16 regular season games and all 3 postseason games. I doubt his role is going to change in any way.

Deatrich Wise started 5 regular season games and one playoff game.

FWIW—They both started the Super Bowl.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

you can't simply pencil Pennel in as an upgrade

LB's still have the same issue in that they can't cover an RB to save their life

the defense has gotten older.......

you still need to draft a quality edge guy to help facilitate the release of clayborn

1. Defense will be 8 months older.

2. They will bring a lot of young pieces to help them.

3. Clayborn was benched for a reason.