Why do you think Patriots assistants are unsuccessful as HC’s?

[maineman209]

Except for last night, LOL.

Well, in some ways, they still sucked last night. However, the Lions sucked like a black hole gravity well.

 

[maineman209]

The reason why is, Bill's a micromanager. It's been well established that he tends to meddle in the work of his assistant coaches and all the strategy goes through Bill. They don't get a lot of experience working independently and solving problems themselves the way some assistant coaches do.

Everything the assistant coaches do is dictated by Belichick's meticulous system, which is great for helping the Patriots win games, but not so great for helping assistant coaches gain the full suite of experience required to take the reins themselves.

When your career experience is as part of a machine, it's hard to develop the skills to become an engineer. If I wanted to win, or have a career as a successful assistant I'd go ahead and coach for Bill, but if I had an eye on a long career as head coach on my own, I'd rather be working for Pete Carroll or Mike Tomlin who tend to have a more hands-off, find-the-right-people-and-let-them-do-their-thing style.

Great parody! Well played!!

 

[maineman209]

not sure this is the WHOLE story. You left out the part where BB is open to suggestions and expects them from both players and his coaches. Micromanages is another term that is misused.

One of the great assets that BB brings to the table is incredible knowledge about ALL aspects of the game. Another is his love of coaching players. He combines these two assets all the time. That is why at TC you can see BB working with individual DBs, DL, OL, etc all the time. It isn't "micromanaging" he is simply doing HIS job and passing along knowledge. He is a COACH first, not just a HC. That is why after over 40 years, he still loves what he does. I believe Bill is happiest when he is on the practice field with players coaching them up.

As to Patricia, it was a particularly poor start. Detroit didn't look like a well coached team. LT? I don't know. He has the basic structure that he needs. (a GM who speaks the same language, a decent owner). It should be noted that BB went 5-11 his first year here and it took him a few years (pre FA era) to start to turn the Browns around. So basically what I'm saying is that next January will STILL be too early to determine whether Matt Patricia can be a good HC or not.

BTW- interesting to note that the new HC's went 0-7 in their debut games.

Not counting Gruden, who isn't really descended from anyone but was, instead, stitched together in the Factory of Annoying Dolls - it would be interesting to trace the coaching genealogy of the other five losers.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Heavy is the head that wears the Crown

 

[XLIX]

You should call up Ozzie Newsome and straighten him out.

Ozzie Newsome learned from Bill Belichick, Ernie Accorsi

Wow. Ozzie Newsome made some generic, polite commentary about some guys he worked with... I guess Belichick also "laid the foundation" for all the success in Alabama...

You guys are really reaching here.

 

[Brewskies]

Those of you that think Matt is unsuccessful as a head coach, after his first game with little talent, know so much more than me about coaching. I am impressed.

 

[RayClay]

C) And this is pure speculation on my part: I feel like a lot of BB students try to go into their first HC gig and BE Bill Belichick. That doesn't usually work. Bill's way isn't the only way to be successful, it's just the best way for HIM to do it.

Good point. BB has said he was trying to be Parcells [sarcastic tough guy] for a while at Cleveland.

 

[RayClay]

not sure this is the WHOLE story. You left out the part where BB is open to suggestions and expects them from both players and his coaches. Micromanages is another term that is misused.

One of the great assets that BB brings to the table is incredible knowledge about ALL aspects of the game. Another is his love of coaching players. He combines these two assets all the time. That is why at TC you can see BB working with individual DBs, DL, OL, etc all the time. It isn't "micromanaging" he is simply doing HIS job and passing along knowledge. He is a COACH first, not just a HC. That is why after over 40 years, he still loves what he does. I believe Bill is happiest when he is on the practice field with players coaching them up.

As to Patricia, it was a particularly poor start. Detroit didn't look like a well coached team. LT? I don't know. He has the basic structure that he needs. (a GM who speaks the same language, a decent owner). It should be noted that BB went 5-11 his first year here and it took him a few years (pre FA era) to start to turn the Browns around. So basically what I'm saying is that next January will STILL be too early to determine whether Matt Patricia can be a good HC or not.

BTW- interesting to note that the new HC's went 0-7 in their debut games.

I don't care if our ex coaches are successful, but that was the question. He's open to suggestion and gives them responsibility, but they are mostly milk fed small college coaches who have not had experience in other systems or in the school of hard knocks.

Parcels,on the other hands, expects coaches to be able to contribute,then chews them out when they screw up. He's an *******. Despite the 3 head coaches he mentored having tons of div 1 college/pro coaching experience, they were yelled at and belittled constantly. The pressure of a pro job probably seemed like a vacation at times.

The Patriots had 7 assistants [?] who came from division 3 John Carrol. I imagine they would need psychological trauma counseling after a year with Parcells. Simply haven't experienced hard times, trauma, pro coaching,division 1 coaching,haven't grown a thick skin.skin. Just my OP.

 

[Kdo5]

I'm not expecting Patricia to be a success TBH. But don't put that game all on him. The players completely and utterly failed. Pathetic execution.

 

[Dr Pain]

BB has the credibility from the players to be a hard ass. His coaches are in a hard ass system. They go somewhere else and the players don't know them and recoil at being treated like that instead of the entitled divas they have been since high school. Patriots pick players for attitude as much as anything.

 

[Triumph]

It’s one game

Mangina, Charlie Weis, Romeo C, Josh McD. BOB hasnt exactly set the woods in fire in Houston. The clock is ticking.

I would not put money on Patricia to make it.

 

[Triumph]

They fail because expectations are so high in the honeymoon period. Same goes for NE players. Book the Superbowl hotel rooms upon signing a NE player or coach. Kraft could put old blocking sleds and equipment on Ebay and teams would be fighting over it because they were touched by Brady and BB.

Its pretty easy to believe that you really are a football God when youre riding in the welcoming parade and everyone is lavishing praise on you prior to even moving into your new office. The happiest time for the other NFL teams is when they hire a NE coach and when they fire a NE coach.

 

[NormZauchin]

Maybe Detroit needs an automotive engineer as HC instead of an aeronautical engineer.

 

[maineman209]

Wow. Ozzie Newsome made some generic, polite commentary about some guys he worked with... I guess Belichick also "laid the foundation" for all the success in Alabama...

You guys are really reaching here.

You may think that Newsome was being disingenuous, but Schwartz, Ferentz and Pat Hill have all given BB credit for helping them get started.

Saban and Belichick have been friends since the early 1970s, when they were both still in college (Toledo and Wesleyan, respectively). I read a great article this summer that detailed the history of their friendship and, sometimes, rivalry. The article note how Saban was a regular dinner guest at Belichick's parents home, and how, even back then, Saban and Belichick would discuss and argue about defensive strategies and diagram defensive schemes for hours. Both were helping to lay the foundation for each other's success long before they worked together in Cleveland where they co-developed zone/pattern-matching, multiple-safety coverage schemes in response to the Steelers regularly kicking the sh it out of the Browns with a dominating play-action offense.

 

[DarrylS]

As I peruse the national press this AM have seen several bylines: "Is Patricia in over his Head"???

In this insane ADHD nation that has no or - attention span everyone wants a miracle in Detroit after years of neglect and ineptitude by the Lions in an effort to be frugal.. All of this after 1 M..f..ing game, everyone take a deep breath.

None of us know how this will turn out.. as far as the other assistants not"making it".. most were cast in impossible situations on very bad team/organizations.. McDaniels was the exception, but suspect he has learned much since his time in Denver.

Across the NFL many teams have protege's of BB in their hierarchy.. either in the front office or on the field.. all work in a political environment for owners who do not necessarily love football, but love the bottom line.

Cannot comprehend how many folks minimize the impact of BB, perhaps sportstalk radio is the culprit who continually try to denigrate the body of work that he has accomplished..

 

[PF_SU]

Going by recent reports of Lions' veterans turning on Patricia I suspect a problem with Patricia could be that he tries too fast to implement the stuff done at Foxborough in Detroit. According to the reports the veterans felt they were worked too hard in practice over the summer and Patricia has implemented too many rules.

We know the way Belichick is doing things here in New England is not for everybody, it's hard. Belichick can get away with it because a) he's built a great reputation, b) he's winning consistently, c) he's got control over the roster so he can pick who gets onto the team and fits his way the best.

As a first-year head coach you got none of that. So it might be a case of wanting too much at once.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

BB has the credibility from the players to be a hard ass. His coaches are in a hard ass system. They go somewhere else and the players don't know them and recoil at being treated like that instead of the entitled divas they have been since high school. Patriots pick players for attitude as much as anything.

Using Mr Peabody's Wayback Machine I see that when BB came here he went 5-11. And he cut lots of supposed Patriots veterans to the chagrin of the all-knowing insanely critical local sports press. VERY important to select the right culture in any enterprise, business & NFL teams.

 

[yukon cornelius]

There's an art to creating team culture.......and to do it with adult males in their 20's and 30's, with all the trappings of the professional sports culture, is an art form, BB is a Michelangelo, perhaps one of the top 3-4 all time coaches in terms of championship culture building......not all of these guys can do it, and all of the scheming and planning is for naught when you don't have that culture

let's face it, all of these guys know football.......some a little better than others, some are a little better under pressure, etc

but BB has created one of the all-time great pro sport cultures, and that cannot be understated......


there's also the extreme attention to detail that this franchise has......and that comes from BB as well

 

[Soliel]

It’s not Patricia that sucks, trust me on this, the lions suck and have sucked worse than cleaveland for fifty years and with like 20 coaches. No one can fix Detroit.

 

[yukon cornelius]

gotta look at the fact that NFL franchises aren't known for their patience, either......they expect immediate results, and to set that culture doesn't happen over night.......try and do it too fast, and you'll end up like McD in Denver......he lost those players by pushing too hard